++ Excessive Perfection - An Emperor's Children Community ++

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Only 10 Noise Marines in a 2k EC army makes me kinda sad.

 

True, but i want to use my Debaser conversion, my Phoenix guard Terminator, the Herald of Slaanesh-Possessed comba and what is an Emperor's Children army without a Noise Hellbrute ? I find it difficult enought no to have enought point to get my Palatine guard chosen.

 

Nevertheless, as fluff as a Lascanon Havok squad is for Emperor's children i could take those point to put more Noise marine ! 

 

Without the Havok squad and the combiplasma i can switch one cultist squad for 5 Noise Marine with Doom Siren & Chainsword and add 5 NM to the second squad with one more Blastmaster (+ the blastmaster on the Hellbrute)

So it's make 20 Noises Marines, 5 with chainsword, 10 sonic blaster, 3 blastmaster, 1 Doom siren. Is this better for a 2000 points EC army ? 

[Panzer]

 

Only 10 Noise Marines in a 2k EC army makes me kinda sad.

 

True, but i want to use my Debaser conversion, my Phoenix guard Terminator, the Herald of Slaanesh-Possessed comba and what is an Emperor's Children army without a Noise Hellbrute ? I find it difficult enought no to have enought point to get my Palatine guard chosen.

 

Nevertheless, as fluff as a Lascanon Havok squad is for Emperor's children i could take those point to put more Noise marine ! 

 

Without the Havok squad and the combiplasma i can switch one cultist squad for 5 Noise Marine with Doom Siren & Chainsword and add 5 NM to the second squad with one more Blastmaster (+ the blastmaster on the Hellbrute)

So it's make 20 Noises Marines, 5 with chainsword, 10 sonic blaster, 3 blastmaster, 1 Doom siren. Is this better for a 2000 points EC army ? 

 

Yeah I have the same problem. Once you dabble into Daemon engines and a proper melee unit + delivery you quickly run out of points.

I think switching out the Havoc Squad and a unit of Cultists for more Noise Marines sounds pretty solid.

 

I for one always try to have at least 25% of my army point value in Troop choices. It's a relic from back when I was still playing WHFB but it makes for a nice looking army on the table and prevents getting in a situation where you don't have enough units on the table to claim objectives.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

I agree, most army should have a really nice core of troop. And i was afraid of those little Havok, only motionless squad in a mobile army with assault weapon. 

 

Thanks for the advices, looks like i will to call friend FW once more for more kakophony. 

[DraneceusRex]

Having Masters of the Kakophoni back is so fething glorious! So happy with the new GW.

 

Here's my new list (again comments and thoughts are welcome, took some prior to heart):

 

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Daemons)

• HQ
  • Herald of Slaanesh on Seeker Chariot [116pts]

    Hysterical Frenzy

 

• The Masque of Slaanesh [78pts]

 

• Troops
  • Daemonettes [94pts]

    Alluress, 11x Daemonette, Instrument of Chaos

 

• Daemonettes [94pts]

  Alluress, 11x Daemonette, Instrument of Chaos

 

• Daemonettes [94pts]

  Alluress, 11x Daemonette, Instrument of Chaos

 

Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines)

• Legion

  • Emperor's Children                 

• HQ
  • Chaos Lord [94pts]

    Combi-plasma, Mark of Slaanesh, Power axe

  • Daemon Prince with Wings [80pts] - General w/Stimulated By Pain and Intoxicating Elixir

    • Malefic talon

    • Slaanesh
• Troops
  • Chaos Cultists [80pts]

    19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun

    • Cultist Champion

    • Autogun

  • Noise Marines [227]
    • Noise Champion
    • Power axe, Sonic blaster
    • 7x Marines w/ Sonic blaster
    • 2x Marines w/ Blastmaster

  • Noise Marines [222]

    • 2x Marines w/ Blastmaster
    • 7x Marines w/ Sonic blaster
    • Noise Champion

      Sonic blaster

• Elites
  • Sonic Dreadnought [155pts]

    Power scourge, Two blastmasters

• Heavy Support

  • Havocs [196]

    • 2x Marines w/ Autocannons
    • 2x Marines w/ Lascannons
    • 2x Marines w/ Bolters 
    • Aspiring Champion

      Combi-plasma

• Flyers
  • Heldrake [185pts]

    Baleflamer, Heldrake claws, Mark of Slaanesh

  • Heldrake [185pts]

    Baleflamer, Heldrake claws, Mark of Slaanesh

[DraneceusRex]

@ DreamIsCollapsing - while I agree with sfPanzer about more noise in your list, I don't feel the Havocs are the place to get the points. I feel you need the squad vs. Knights or a Magnus. Also to me it feels like you are investing quite a lot to get the Possessed to work optimally without any extra units to support them. I mean I guess the termies could, but then you'd be losing out on maximising Deep Striking in many situations. I'd like to use Possessed in a similar style, but I've faced the same problem. I'm at the point where I'd rather invest buffing a good unit to get great results as opposed to an OK unit to get good results.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

I do understand your point. But i really dont want to play a full ranged army, throwing away my legion trait and stratagem. And i do believe a middle range army like chaos will just be crushed by a long range army like Tau or Imperial guard if going without close combat. 

 

So wich unit can i take to go with the Daemon Prince ? I want a full Emperor's Children army, waiting the Daemon codex to use Slaanesh daemon. 

- Berzeker and mutilator are out of the question for different reason.

- I don't think terminator can make their cost

- Chosen ? I would love to make a Chosen squad with Power sword and exalting champ. But atm i feel they are inferiore to possessed..

- Raptor & Bike : Imho they are more effective in close ranged than proper close combat. 

- Noise Marine with chainsward may be better than Chosen, but it feel kind of wrong to not get Noise Marine Noise weapon. 

- Maulerfiend got CT4+, Heldrake is great for rushing enemy lines but i don't feel any punch in his stat to break those lines.

 

What would you advise for CaC when Berzeker aren't an option ?

[Panzer]

T'au aren't exactly long ranged anymore. They work best within 18" of the enemy.

[FallenSoldiers]

Have you considered Spawn? I know they're not "marked" anymore but they are nasty in CC.

[DraneceusRex]

What I was trying before was using Possessed with running a cc NM squad with Lucius, giving then a dual Doon Siren shot. I've came to a point that I just feel daemonettes are more viable.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Forgot about spawn, are they better than possessed ? 

[Commissar K.]

Forgot about spawn, are they better than possessed ? 

Better is really difficult to evaluate without list context. Especially now the Possessed also benifit from a Legion Trait. Where Spawn do not. Before that Spawn where better in my opinion.

 

The advantage Spawn do bring is a generally better damage output. Possessed are 22 per model, Spawn are 33. They both have the same movement, Spawn to suffer from WS 4+. The advantage of Spawn however remains that they all have D6 attacks but either end up with AP -4, 2 additional attacks or re-rolled failed wounds, which are all great in terms of "removing the downside of WS 4+". The advantage of striking first however cannot be underestimated. In the end I feel it's really up to you. 5 Spawns come in at the same cost as 7,5 Possessed, 165 points.

 

However something I always want to remember players about and that is a winged Daemon Prince now comes in at 180 with weapon and wings. Especially for EC again I feel this remains an terrifying 'auto-hitting' prospect that also adds a Psyker to your force AND one of the infamous powerful Chaos Psycic Powers. Due to his speed, protection as a character and general guaranteed impact I have trouble with EC lists not running at least a pair of them. 180 points is only 15 points away from 165.

 

Edit: You know what sucks about Possessed though... That they cannot have flipping Icons...

[rorhammer]

How would a CC sonic Brute play out with fist, scourge with the flamer and doom siren combo?

[Panzer]

How would a CC sonic Brute play out with fist, scourge with the flamer and doom siren combo?

Just wanted to say that.

Tho I'd probably rather go with Scourge + double Blastmaster instead.

 

With 7 S8 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 3+ it's almost on Daemon Prince level.

That being said, if you don't care about the Helbrutes shooting you'd be better off by just taking an additional Daemon Prince since the DP is more mobile, a character with less than 10 wounds and a psycher...and all that for only 25p more than the Scourge + Blastmaster Helbrute (the Scourge + Fist&Siren Helbrute is even more expensive).

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Better is really difficult to evaluate without list context.

 

 

List contest is : 

Daemon Prince, Dark Apostle, Exalted Champ, Jetpack sorcerer

3 units of Cultist, 3 of Noise Marine (1 squad of 5 melee noise, 1 squad of 10 shooty, 1 squad of 5 shooty)

Defiler with flamers

Noise Drad with 2 blastmaster & missile launcher

5 Terminators with combi-melta

And the 9 possessed in a rhino (with Exalted champ) and enough point to summon an Herald. Possessed and Herald goes for 274 points. 

I consider the Herald useless if he is to buff only the Daemon prince (with the Elixir going from S8 to 9 isnt the best deal).

 

So what good close combat Emperor's children unit for 274 points ? 

 

But this question can be more general :

 

An Emperor's Children will always have Noise marine (no ?).

Dark hereticus spell are huge, so at least one sorcerer

Despise having them on troop sloot, all army need some meatshield against deepstrike : Cultist or Daemonette or Renegates, but let's talk only about Emperor's children : so cultist. 

Daemon prince is the best unit in codex, and EC Prince with intoxicating elixir is the best daemon prince. So at least one. 

Add at least 1 squad of pure dakka to go with Endless cacophony : Havok, Noise marines, bikers, Terminators. 

 

So imho, an Emperor's children army is Daemon Prince, Sorcerer, Noise marines, cultist and at least one Havok/Biker/Terminators. 

 

Wich units goes best with that ? We need body guard for that daemon prince. 

[rorhammer]

Warp Talons dropping in next to the DP and the DP casting warp time on them could be quite a nice combo.

[Commissar K.]

 

Better is really difficult to evaluate without list context.

 

 

List contest is : 

Daemon Prince, Dark Apostle, Exalted Champ, Jetpack sorcerer

3 units of Cultist, 3 of Noise Marine (1 squad of 5 melee noise, 1 squad of 10 shooty, 1 squad of 5 shooty)

Defiler with flamers

Noise Drad with 2 blastmaster & missile launcher

5 Terminators with combi-melta

And the 9 possessed in a rhino (with Exalted champ) and enough point to summon an Herald. Possessed and Herald goes for 274 points. 

I consider the Herald useless if he is to buff only the Daemon prince (with the Elixir going from S8 to 9 isnt the best deal).

 

So what good close combat Emperor's children unit for 274 points ? 

 

But this question can be more general :

 

An Emperor's Children will always have Noise marine (no ?).

Dark hereticus spell are huge, so at least one sorcerer

Despise having them on troop sloot, all army need some meatshield against deepstrike : Cultist or Daemonette or Renegates, but let's talk only about Emperor's children : so cultist. 

Daemon prince is the best unit in codex, and EC Prince with intoxicating elixir is the best daemon prince. So at least one. 

Add at least 1 squad of pure dakka to go with Endless cacophony : Havok, Noise marines, bikers, Terminators. 

 

So imho, an Emperor's children army is Daemon Prince, Sorcerer, Noise marines, cultist and at least one Havok/Biker/Terminators. 

 

Wich units goes best with that ? We need body guard for that daemon prince. 

 

Solid list and I think you'll enjoy playing it. At the same time, at this moment, I'm looking at a Jetpack Sorcerer and would ask, why he isn't a Winged Daemon Prince aswell?

He'll only have that one Psycic Power but due to his own melee poweress your still getting the best of both worlds. Especially due to EC Legion Trait allowing you to also play slightly more defensive with your DP adds a nice tactical supportive depth. Might be something to get used to but it's fully possible.

If your very comfortable with that Sorcerer the Exalted and Apostle can also be upgraded to a second Daemon Prince.

Another whole unit that you can still consider if your splitting Detachments is Daemonettes. Someone will have to lack the EC Trait but it matters very little. 

 

From an outside perspective:

- EC players should certainly play 2+ Noise Marine units, I feel they are good, I feel they are amongst the best Troop choices.

- I agree with you on out Psycic Powers, I see it as a single DP being a must.

- Cultists sound like a great meatshield to me, though I will say, EC trait again, I can't say it's mandatory. Experiment with a Lightning Claw Champion, check how much he can scratch up infantry just trying to get in.

- I think double DP is going to be a golden standard again, just period :P. The only cats that come close to it are special characters.

-  Completely with you on Endless Cacophony, add Obliterators to a potential to that list aswell.

 

Cultists to me are the most ideal Daemon Prince bodyguards because we shouldn't really care about them anyway. They also offer the bodies who make a DP unreachable and frankly speaking that aspect of our tactic isn't too different from AM protecting our tanks. 

 

So in retrospect, I'd personally skip on the Possessed for now, because putting only them in a car to me just seems odd. Prime reason being that all the anti-tank ranged attacks will easily focus on it and that smells to me like a tactic bound to fail. Unless we're going to talk about Spartans, flying Tanks etc. 

 

As a result this could lead you to a following sketch which I think might be better:

 

 

Daemon Prince, Daemon Prince, Dark Apostle, Exalted Champ

2 units of Cultist (for the Daemon Princes)

3 of Noise Marine (1 squad of 5 melee noise, 1 squad of 10 shooty, 1 squad of 5 shooty)

Defiler with flamers

Noise Drad with 2 blastmaster & missile launcher

5 Terminators with combi-melta

X Havocs (with scary weapons)

Players might heavily focus on the Defiler but so be it, thing is a fire magnet regardless. The idea is to add more ranged fire and react to your opponent or thake out key pieces with your Daemon Prince :)  One Warlord Daemon Prince with Elixer and the other with Diabolic Strength should work out just fine with the Talons. If you got more points left, more Sorcerers for sure.

 

Cheers,

 

[Commissar K.]

Warp Talons dropping in next to the DP and the DP casting warp time on them could be quite a nice combo.

It is but usually you end up with a DP standing in the middle of nothing. It happens to a Sorcerer usually to. The prime difference is that a Warp Timed Daemon Prince usually screws up stuff even better. It's extremely neat to have that Overwatch immunity but Stimulated by Pain allows you to live on the edge ;) 

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Players might heavily focus on the Defiler but so be it, thing is a fire magnet regardless.

 

 

Totally agree on that. My Defiler is build totally for that purpose (and protect from Deepstrick with its larges body and legs.. and because i came with a solid conversion as a Debaser). 

 

I'm looking at a Jetpack Sorcerer and would ask, why he isn't a Winged Daemon Prince aswell?

Reason 1 : Point

Reason 2 : I need both Prescience & Warptime to make the best use of 5 Combi-melta on Terminators with VotLW & Endless Cacophony. Prince can only cast one spell per turn, sorcerer two. And i'm expecting a 50% chance of success on each spell cast with 6-7 Warp charge. In my opinion getting 10 (Endless cacophony) melta wounding on 2+ (VotLW) with 50% of chance to hit on 2+ and/or dealing the best of two D6 damage from deepstrike is huge. Point wise this option stay strong against the option to switch the Sorcerer for another Daemon prince (but that's need to be tested). 

 

add Obliterators to a potential to that list aswell.

 

True, i tend to forget the models i find pretty ugly ^^ 

 

Cultists to me are the most ideal Daemon Prince bodyguards because we shouldn't really care about them anyway. They also offer the bodies who make a DP unreachable and frankly speaking that aspect of our tactic isn't too different from AM protecting our tanks.

 

 

I have to disagree on this one. Cultist only move 6", a Daemon prince want to be on close as fast as possible (if confronting a ranged army, against an assault army the question of bodyguard the Prince while he run across the table is irelevant)). 

Cultist+Prince will need 3 turn on average to reach your opponent. All army will have the power to destroy your cultist at turn 1 or 2 (depending on the moral test), regardless the size of the squad before that.

 

For me great body guard are either melee units in rhino, eventually possessed with their 8" mouvement they don't slow the Prince too much. Seekers or Slaanesh furies seems great but i'm talking only on EC. 

 

- I think double DP is going to be a golden standard again, just period

 

 

That's cleary a great option. But many places dont allow doublet of anything but troops. I don't want to be "that guy" spamming the best Chaos codex option. 

 

Another whole unit that you can still consider if your splitting Detachments is Daemonettes. Someone will have to lack the EC Trait but it matters very little.

 

 

Oh i will totally make a list with a EC Bataillon + Slaanesh Daemon Bataillon when chaos codex comes. But for now i want to go pur EC. 

 

Daemon Prince, Daemon Prince, Dark Apostle, Exalted Champ

2 units of Cultist (for the Daemon Princes)

3 of Noise Marine (1 squad of 5 melee noise, 1 squad of 10 shooty, 1 squad of 5 shooty)

Defiler with flamers

Noise Drad with 2 blastmaster & missile launcher

5 Terminators with combi-melta

X Havocs (with scary weapons)

 

 

Solid list (i didnt mention the rhino for the possessed and Exalted champ).

Another option for rushing with the daemon prince should be Rhino with Flamers havoks. 11D6 Strenght 4 auto hit (4 flamers + 1 Combi-flamers on Havoks champ + 1 combi-flamers on rhino) with +1 to wound should burst absolutly anything.. And the daemon will rush the hight Wounds target with is D3 damage Infernal sword. 

 

Edit: You know what sucks about Possessed though... That they cannot have flipping Icons...

They can. Warptalon cannot. 

[Panzer]

 

- I think double DP is going to be a golden standard again, just period

 

That's cleary a great option. But many places dont allow doublet of anything but troops. I don't want to be "that guy" spamming the best Chaos codex option. 

Actually that's rather rare, but of course your local tournament meta can differ.

[Commissar K.]

 

 

I'm looking at a Jetpack Sorcerer and would ask, why he isn't a Winged Daemon Prince aswell?

Reason 1 : Point

Reason 2 : I need both Prescience & Warptime to make the best use of 5 Combi-melta on Terminators with VotLW & Endless Cacophony. Prince can only cast one spell per turn, sorcerer two. And i'm expecting a 50% chance of success on each spell cast with 6-7 Warp charge. In my opinion getting 10 (Endless cacophony) melta wounding on 2+ (VotLW) with 50% of chance to hit on 2+ and/or dealing the best of two D6 damage from deepstrike is huge. Point wise this option stay strong against the option to switch the Sorcerer for another Daemon prince (but that's need to be tested). 

 

add Obliterators to a potential to that list aswell.

 

True, i tend to forget the models i find pretty ugly ^^ 

 

Cultists to me are the most ideal Daemon Prince bodyguards because we shouldn't really care about them anyway. They also offer the bodies who make a DP unreachable and frankly speaking that aspect of our tactic isn't too different from AM protecting our tanks.

 

 

I have to disagree on this one. Cultist only move 6", a Daemon prince want to be on close as fast as possible (if confronting a ranged army, against an assault army the question of bodyguard the Prince while he run across the table is irelevant)). 

Cultist+Prince will need 3 turn on average to reach your opponent. All army will have the power to destroy your cultist at turn 1 or 2 (depending on the moral test), regardless the size of the squad before that.

 

For me great body guard are either melee units in rhino, eventually possessed with their 8" mouvement they don't slow the Prince too much. Seekers or Slaanesh furies seems great but i'm talking only on EC. 

 

- I think double DP is going to be a golden standard again, just period

 

 

That's cleary a great option. But many places dont allow doublet of anything but troops. I don't want to be "that guy" spamming the best Chaos codex option. 

 

Another whole unit that you can still consider if your splitting Detachments is Daemonettes. Someone will have to lack the EC Trait but it matters very little.

 

 

Oh i will totally make a list with a EC Bataillon + Slaanesh Daemon Bataillon when chaos codex comes. But for now i want to go pur EC. 

 

Daemon Prince, Daemon Prince, Dark Apostle, Exalted Champ

2 units of Cultist (for the Daemon Princes)

3 of Noise Marine (1 squad of 5 melee noise, 1 squad of 10 shooty, 1 squad of 5 shooty)

Defiler with flamers

Noise Drad with 2 blastmaster & missile launcher

5 Terminators with combi-melta

X Havocs (with scary weapons)

 

 

Solid list (i didnt mention the rhino for the possessed and Exalted champ).

Another option for rushing with the daemon prince should be Rhino with Flamers havoks. 11D6 Strenght 4 auto hit (4 flamers + 1 Combi-flamers on Havoks champ + 1 combi-flamers on rhino) with +1 to wound should burst absolutly anything.. And the daemon will rush the hight Wounds target with is D3 damage Infernal sword. 

 

Edit: You know what sucks about Possessed though... That they cannot have flipping Icons...

They can. Warptalon cannot. 

 

 

In the end go with whatever you want! Just a single reply to the above in summery:

 

- Pick that Defiler for sure, cool model anyway.

- Im really uncertain how you feel you need Prescience when a Daemon Prince is near enough. There is indeed a point difference but the gap isn't too big (in my opinion). Or at least not big enough. If you have a 3+ to hit standard and can support that with Prince of Chaos your solid really.

- As per Defiler, don't play not cool models :P

- I think you will experiment with the DP, he's a tactica topic worthy in itself but what I will say is that some days you will have to try to thake out ranged assassins and sometimes you can go in there. Cultists left or right in my experience don't make the difference anyway, they can eventually make the difference if opponents ignore them but that applies to all units.

- Not being that guy is absolutely relatable, I do however feel that if locally people run the 'Guillimans' then they shouldn't be upset about double Daemon Princes either. The game is balanced quite to really well this edition, as a result I do not feel there is something game breaking about this tactic, it's just very good.

- Completely missed the Icon option on Possessed!

 

To me it seems like you really want to experiment with Possessed as a melee module, certainly go for it! I believe that you could save yourself some points and costs in real life by playing a second Daemon Prince instead. To come back on the original list again, I feel that the Exalted Champion might not be in the best place in these lists anwyay. But this is just my opinion on a Possessed package + support + vechicle that get expensive really quick and doesn't really have the tactical flexability one might expect of such a costly unit.

 

Daemon Princes, especially for Emperor's Children in my eyes offer a crazy good melee tool that the army before could really use and still wants. Formerly you'd rely on indeed either Possessed, Terminators, Spawn or Daemonettes to fill in this role and from my perspective most of those fold to the prospect the Daemon Prince comes with. With blobs of Cultists it's actually not too difficult to protect and still slightly advance. You'll know when the time is ready to charge, unlike say World Eaters, your not forced to charge either. Smite ranged support also works out just fine.

 

Go with what you like! I just wanted to share that I feel every CSM player should consider Daemon Princes as their HQ slots most of the time because it's very easy to include, incredible flexible to use and also offers a ton of support. In essence it's a Chaos Lord and Sorcerer rolled into one and that tactical flexability shouldn't be dismissed I feel. Especially for Emperor's Children. 

[DreamIsCollapsing]

- Pick that Defiler for sure, cool model anyway.

 

 

Oh and you didnt see my Defiler conversion, a great Debaser i will probably show when finished. (Yes i've got all the modesty of an Emperor's Children). 

 

- Im really uncertain how you feel you need Prescience when a Daemon Prince is near enough. There is indeed a point difference but the gap isn't too big (in my opinion). Or at least not big enough. If you have a 3+ to hit standard and can support that with Prince of Chaos your solid really.

 

 

True, i forgot about the Prince of Chaos rules.

 

To me it seems like you really want to experiment with Possessed as a melee module, certainly go for it! I believe that you could save yourself some points and costs in real life by playing a second Daemon Prince instead. To come back on the original list again, I feel that the Exalted Champion might not be in the best place in these lists anwyay. But this is just my opinion on a Possessed package + support + vechicle that get expensive really quick and doesn't really have the tactical flexability one might expect of such a costly unit.

 

 

I talk about Possessed because i really want an excuse to get Gal Vorbak models to go pure Combo with stratagem. Because atm Emperor's Children : 

- Have a spamming inexpensive troop unit (Cultist) + one of the best troop (Noise) so have no excuse not to get tons of Command Point

- Don't ever need the Counter attack stratagem now than even Daemon prince got the legion trait

 

My guess is : you cannot making a best use of VotLW + Excess of violence than on Strenght 6 1D3 reroll 1 to hit, reroll to wound AP-1 units with 2wounds, 3+/5++/5++. But yes, that's a truly expensive combo..

 

As we talk, i start to consider the option of going crazy nuts on Chainsword Noise Marines with Doom Siren, prescience, IoE and VotL will get more results than possessed.

31 attacks, hitting on 2+, +1 attack for each 4+ on Imperium (so on average 15 attacks, wich make 46 attacks hitting on 2+, wounding MEQ on 3+). And for each models killed in the counterattack you got 1D6 shoot of "Strenght 4" grenade.

 

It's 30 points less than 9 possessed, 96 if you count the Herald.

The downside is : No Ap, and when not fighting Imperium you loose the 15 attacks of DttFE).

[Commissar K.]

 

 

 

Oh and you didnt see my Defiler conversion, a great Debaser i will probably show when finished. (Yes i've got all the modesty of an Emperor's Children). 

 

 

I talk about Possessed because i really want an excuse to get Gal Vorbak models to go pure Combo with stratagem. Because atm Emperor's Children : 

- Have a spamming inexpensive troop unit (Cultist) + one of the best troop (Noise) so have no excuse not to get tons of Command Point

- Don't ever need the Counter attack stratagem now than even Daemon prince got the legion trait

 

My guess is : you cannot making a best use of VotLW + Excess of violence than on Strenght 6 1D3 reroll 1 to hit, reroll to wound AP-1 units with 2wounds, 3+/5++/5++. But yes, that's a truly expensive combo..

 

As we talk, i start to consider the option of going crazy nuts on Chainsword Noise Marines with Doom Siren, prescience, IoE and VotL will get more results than possessed.

31 attacks, hitting on 2+, +1 attack for each 4+ on Imperium (so on average 15 attacks, wich make 46 attacks hitting on 2+, wounding MEQ on 3+). And for each models killed in the counterattack you got 1D6 shoot of "Strenght 4" grenade.

 

It's 30 points less than 9 possessed, 96 if you count the Herald.

The downside is : No Ap, and when not fighting Imperium you loose the 15 attacks of DttFE).

 

Looking very forward to that conversion! It's such a cool model still and Ive always felt it could have recieved some more love from the start. Unlike say Obliterators who started out amazing (power fists on top of it all yay) and got their super handy work removed. Something armour piercing left on those claws would have been amazing... But I degress.

 

I completely hear you on the Possessed. I still think you should give it a try. The thing is that I feel that indeed regular Troop Noise Marines arn't that far removed from their power for the same cost, increased flexability and objective security...

 

Which brings me to another point, am I seeing it right that a Noise Marine Champion can now have a Doom Siren, Combi Flamer and Power Fist (or Power Axe if you want to keep it a bit affordable)? I know it's a ton of points into one model but at the same time I can speak from Berzerker experience that Champions in general have an extremely good survivability (they can only truely be sniped) but the ammount of auto-hitting fire from that Champion would be absurd. I like absurd ideas.

 

I think the truth about Possessed will come forth the moment you'll test them. I think they are alright, especially for EC. Most other factions cannot play them like EC do however so at the same time I'd be inclined to just play them. The prime reason I say most cant play them like EC is because in many cases the regular combat troops such as Terminators or Berzerkers would form a good alternative also because most Legion Traits don't do anything in particular for them. With EC they are at least upgraded Daemonettes and that is most certainly not bad.

 

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Luckily for me (not for my wallet) i'm a collector as well as a player. So GalVorbak should get in my hand sooner or later. I still hope Slaanesh Daemon get some love in Daemon codex, wich will encourage us to play a more mixed Heretic Astartes/Slaanesh daemon army. A Slaanesh daemonkind. Maybee possessed & other daemon unit will have some tricks with this codex.

 

I mean, right now you can use Chaos space marine stratagem in a none Chaos Space marine detachment, you just need to have another Detachment pure Heretic Astartes. 

So when Daemon codex'll come, with one pure Heretic Astartates detachment + one pure Slaanesh Daemon detachmen the possessed/daemon machine/Daemon prince on the Heretic Astartates detachment could benefit from Daemon stratagem.. Wait & see.

 

Which brings me to another point, am I seeing it right that a Noise Marine Champion can now have a Doom Siren, Combi Flamer and Power Fist (or Power Axe if you want to keep it a bit affordable)? I know it's a ton of points into one model but at the same time I can speak from Berzerker experience that Champions in general have an extremely good survivability (they can only truely be sniped) but the ammount of auto-hitting fire from that Champion would be absurd. I like absurd ideas.

I personnaly loved the idea of a Combi-plasma for the fun to shot overheat plasma on Champs death without any risk.. he's already dead.

 

But for Assault Noise marine, yea that would be a pretty solid wall of fire. I guess the best use of this would be for Renegate Chapter Noise marine. Advance, auto-hit, charge. 

[DraneceusRex]

Not a huge deal, but curious about people's preferences on Cultists: CC or autoguns?

[Commissar K.]

Not a huge deal, but curious about people's preferences on Cultists: CC or autoguns?

Depends a little on the size and plan.

I think that autoguns are ideal for small pockets that are in the list to claim objectives. They usually do this anyway but a larger unit can potentially be scarier thanks to Tide of Traitors.

For Emperor's Children in particular though I think that your more likely to have them be equiped with Autoguns. Equiping them with melee weapons in general seems to decrease their offense more than anything.

Even with say the World Eater Legion Trait I'd be less inclined to have them with melee weapons. S3 typically sucks but if your giving up Overwatch potential with a massive blob for just another S3 attack I think it isn't worth the effort either... To me the best thing about them remains the Flamers/Heavy Stubbers, you can't really count them on doing anything well in particular other than sitting down and claiming an objective.

 

In conclusion I think that Autoguns usually win out, even moreso with Tide of Traitors which stops them from moving but lets you place them ideally within range of Rapid Fire.