++ Excessive Perfection - An Emperor's Children Community ++

[Panzer]

Definitely Autoguns for me. An additional S3 AP0 attack does nothing some autogun shots wouldn't do anyway but the higher Autogun range makes it more likely to do anything in the first place.

I see literally no reason to ever take the pistol+ccw version for Cultists.

[skabradisdead]

Hey gang,

 

Old school CSM player who has returned to the game after two editions. Trying to figure out the army building these days. Was hoping y'all could help me out?

 

I am building a list based on an old army for a 1250 event coming up:

 

Daemon Prince:  Warp Bolter, Hellforged Sword 

6 Noise Marines, 3 Sonic Blasters, Blast Master, Power Sword

6 Noise Marines,  4 Sonic Blasters,  Blast Master, Power Sword 

6 Noise Marines, 4 Sonic Blasters,  Blast Master, Power Sword 

6 Noise Marines,  4 Sonic Blasters,  Blast Master,  Power Sword 

10 Noise Marines (lots of chainsword/bolt pistol guys),  2 Blast Masters, Power Sword 

Rhino with Combi- Plasma HellBrute with Twin Las-Cannons,  Power Scourge 

Chaos Lord,  Plasma Pistol, Power Sword 

 

I have about 40 points left to play with. Considering dropping the Hellbrute to replace it with a all Las-cannon predator. 

 

What do you guys think?

[Panzer]

Imo the Hellforged Sword is the worst of the three. Talons offer almost the same stats but with 3 additional attacks and the Axe bump you to S8 so you can wound MEQ on 2+ and vehicles/monsters on 3+ or 4+ instead of 4+ or 5+.

 

Why no Doom Siren in the Noise Marine squads? It should at least be in the melee one. 1d6 S5 AP-2 hits is nothing to scoff at.

 

Imo you are lacking means to crack tanks in your list which you should have at 1250p. You can try to rely on the Blastmaster to some degree tho.

 

Why not go with the Sonic Helbrute? Two Blastmaster, a Scourge and a Doom siren is pretty potent imo. ^^

[Mekhitar]

I like a DP with the sword: his dmg and so threatens vehicles nicely without the minus to hit of the ax (which also generally drops him a dttfe attack).

[Commissar K.]

I like a DP with the sword: his dmg and so threatens vehicles nicely without the minus to hit of the ax (which also generally drops him a dttfe attack).

Hmmm, personally I like the axe or talons, reason being the attacks left. Even the axe in my opinion is only worth the effort on WE under the assumption he'll charge in and have the additional warlord trait attacks.

 

Thing with the sword is that its only 1 extra damage, on 4 attacks maxing out on 12 damage, while the talons are 7 attacks maxing out on 14. So the only reason for that axe to me is S8, AP3 DMG3, possible 6 attacks make possible 18 damage.

[Panzer]

The Sword really is in a weird middle ground. Not enough damage to compete with the additional 3 attacks of the Talons and also not enough anything to compete with the ability to wound T4 on 2+, T7 on 3+ and T8 on 4+.

Also not to forget in case you are facing T5 stuff (Primaris in Gravis armor, Bikes, Death Guard, T'au Crisis/Commander/Broadsides) you can easily buff the axe to S10 via Diabolic Strength. Sure you could do that with Talons or the Sword as well if you'd make your Daemon Prince your Warlord and give him the elixir, but sometimes you don't want your Warlord jumping around in the middle of the opponents army or you don't want to spend so many CP on artefacts and want something else than the Elixir (Black Mace for example is extremely good to thin out hordes).

[Mekhitar]

I've been unimpressed with a talon DP's ability to wreck vehicles (compared to ax or sword) - though it is excellent at cleaning up lesser targets. It's probably the fault of my meta, but I find my EC need little help in killling t3 to t5, even multiwound models, whereas CC options that take on vehicles are much thinner on the ground. With his mobility, I almost always find my DP jumping into the back line to mess up some significant shooty vehicles - or taking a flier down out of the sky.

 

This experience is no doubt biased in part because I don't run any FW models, so my ranged AT is a little more limited. I do run lashavocs, but target saturation is also a thing...

 

Edited to add: don't forget that if you take the ax or sword, you get one additional attack for your talon, which levels all weapon combos out to 14 max dmg each. The talons are better for multiple 2w models, certainly, where the extra dmg is otherwise wasted.

[Commissar K.]

Why would you want to wreck it with a DP in EC though? I feel pretty much nothing beats EC Havocs thanks to Endless C. If you want to exclusively beat up vechicles in melee though a Maulerfiend seems legit now, reason one being that its cheap and two being Daemonforge but that still isnt shooting twice with all the big guys ;)

Also consider EC Terminators with the blasted Combi's to wreck days with Endless C.

[Repentless]

Hello there

I am building an 40K Emperors children army.

I would like some help and advice on what to buy.

I already have the following:

Terminator lord with lightning claws.

5 terminators with lightning claws.

2 X 5 noisemarines, 4 sonic blasters+1 blastmaster in each squad.

1 Sicarian Venator.

1 Hellbrute but dont know which weapon load out would be best.

 

Please let me know what else I should buy.

Thanks.

[Commissar K.]

I think you'd love to add a Daemon Prince to that cool starting collection. The EC Warlord Daemon Prince with Warp Speed or Dabolic Strength, Warlord Trait and Intoxicating Elixer is designed to wreck and destroy.

[Mekhitar]

Why would you want to wreck it with a DP in EC though? I feel pretty much nothing beats EC Havocs thanks to Endless C. If you want to exclusively beat up vechicles in melee though a Maulerfiend seems legit now, reason one being that its cheap and two being Daemonforge but that still isnt shooting twice with all the big guys ;)

 

Also consider EC Terminators with the blasted Combi's to wreck days with Endless C.

I usually dump Endless C on lascannon havocs, and the 2 rounds is good to put paid to an enemy vehicle. My opponents are old hands though and make sure to have redundancy. ;) Also, depending on the enemy army, I often use endless C on NM instead, which splits me with anti tank and anti infantry. I like the versatility.

 

I'm not fond of combi plans terminators. They hurt, but they are so expensive, die quite readily, and are easy to protect against - scouts, rangers, cultists, tzaangors, and guard can easily deny them doubletap range. Additionally they aren't great v flyers and dark angels (who I face quite a bit!). I do run plasma havocs in a rhino; they are nice, mobile, all-around cleanup.

 

I suppose it is mostly that even "only" with a sword the DP has yet to disappoint cleaning up ordinary chaff - I've never found myself thinking "I wish I had the claws!" But I have thought "I wish that did 3 dmg!" We have many ways to add to the # of attacks on a DP, and many ways to add to the likelihood to wound. But the sword's latent bonus to dmg and to AP are stats we can't readily otherwise buff; that's worth something.

[skabradisdead]

Cheers for the advice about tanks and the sword.

 

For armour busting: I think I am going to drop the Hellbrute and the extra points in my list in favour of a quad lascannons predator. 

 

As for the sword on the Daemon Prince: I was lucky enough a decade ago to have Dave Taylor Convert me a custom Daemon Prince. It is one of the gems of my mini collection and the armament on that model cannot change. I would have gone dual claws otherwise.

 

Some pictures of my army:

http://landomisfittoys.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/so.html

 

What do you guys think about the load out for my basic squads? 6 Noise Marines,  4 Sonic Blasters,  Blast Master, Power Sword 

[Slaanbull]

Awesome looking army Skabradisdead! I'll have to get a better look when I have a better screen than my phone at hand. :)

Why not give the champion a sonic blaster as well? Just so he can play along the others.

[Mekhitar]

Fully kitting out your noise marines is a great idea. They're just so honest to goodness good units. Now, with the codex - I'm not sure - can we take a power weapon and a sonic blaster both on the champion? I don't have the book to hand... if so I would do it; both are pretty cheap.

 

I take axes, but only because I use the dark heresy models for my champions.

 

I like the look of your noise marines with their varied weaponry... much more attractive than my tau carbine conversions!

[DreamIsCollapsing]

can we take a power weapon and a sonic blaster both on the champion?

 

 

No coz sonic blaster already replace boltgun, so you dont have anu boltgun left to replace with Champ equipment.

[Slaanbull]

 

can we take a power weapon and a sonic blaster both on the champion?

 

No coz sonic blaster already replace boltgun, so you dont have anu boltgun left to replace with Champ equipment.

This is wrong. The champion starts with a bolter and a bolt pistol, swapping the bolter for a sonic blaster and the pistol for something from the champion equipment list(where the power weapons are listed).

He or she may also take a Doom Siren, swapped for nothing. You can end up with a doom siren, a sonic blaster and a combi-weapon, shooting all of them in the same turn even. Talk about excess!

[Panzer]

 

 

can we take a power weapon and a sonic blaster both on the champion?

No coz sonic blaster already replace boltgun, so you dont have anu boltgun left to replace with Champ equipment.

This is wrong. The champion starts with a bolter and a bolt pistol, swapping the bolter for a sonic blaster and the pistol for something from the champion equipment list(where the power weapons are listed).

He or she may also take a Doom Siren, swapped for nothing. You can end up with a doom siren, a sonic blaster and a combi-weapon, shooting all of them in the same turn even. Talk about excess!

 

Now I want to model a Noise Marine with a Sonic Blaster in one hand and a Combi-flamer in the other with a Doom Siren on his shoulders and a knife (ccw) in his mouth. :D

[Commissar K.]

 

 

 

can we take a power weapon and a sonic blaster both on the champion?

No coz sonic blaster already replace boltgun, so you dont have anu boltgun left to replace with Champ equipment.

This is wrong. The champion starts with a bolter and a bolt pistol, swapping the bolter for a sonic blaster and the pistol for something from the champion equipment list(where the power weapons are listed).

He or she may also take a Doom Siren, swapped for nothing. You can end up with a doom siren, a sonic blaster and a combi-weapon, shooting all of them in the same turn even. Talk about excess!

 

Now I want to model a Noise Marine with a Sonic Blaster in one hand and a Combi-flamer in the other with a Doom Siren on his shoulders and a knife (ccw) in his mouth.

 

Hahaha go hard or go home! You want a Noise Marine with a Sonic Blaster, Combi-Flamer, Doom Siren and a Powerfist for a head.

 

[Panzer]

Haha I wish that were possible. Unfortunately you can only take the Combi-weapon or the Powerfist if you still want the Sonic Blaster. :P

 

Anyway, I'm usually just taking a Poweraxe and a Plasma pistol on top of the Doom Siren for my Champion so the unit is not a total pushover in melee and so the Champ can blast someones face with MotA.

I wish they wouldn't have given us the regular shooting restrictions for being in melee for MotA...no Doom Siren in your face upon death. :'(

[Commissar K.]

Yeah my hope really is that eventually all Cult troops will be treated the same in terms of having a fast slew in Wargear options, as discussed before I feel there is a certain lash/sword option lacking in Noise Marine's options and it feels strange by comparison and also visual approach. We also have a note on the other side of things where the Codex mentions that champions of World Eaters wield massive Chain Axes (assuming something different as a regular Chain Axe) but that option isn't there unfortunatly.

The lash on Lucius for example is something I feel would be very fitting on Noise Marines also at this stage in the game. In addition their ranged weaponry is so Assault focused that it would be an odd idea to have something useful in melee combat, afterall the screams of their victims up and close should sound very pleasing to them aswell.  

Then again, I really am looking forward to hear some awesome stories of you fella's where Daemon Princes preform Heroic Interventions to ensure the enemies who assaulted the Noise Marines will meet a quick demise. For there still is quite a lot of inspiration to find there also!

[Panzer]

Pretty sure Noise Marines will get some melee weapons if GW gets around to give us our own Codex. They labeled EC as one of the best melee legions in their article after all but so far the only thing that makes us better than other Slaanesh legions in melee is our legion trait....and that doesn't exactly makes us a good melee army, it just reduces losses. ^^

[DreamIsCollapsing]

 

 

can we take a power weapon and a sonic blaster both on the champion?

No coz sonic blaster already replace boltgun, so you dont have anu boltgun left to replace with Champ equipment.

This is wrong. The champion starts with a bolter and a bolt pistol, swapping the bolter for a sonic blaster and the pistol for something from the champion equipment list(where the power weapons are listed).

He or she may also take a Doom Siren, swapped for nothing. You can end up with a doom siren, a sonic blaster and a combi-weapon, shooting all of them in the same turn even. Talk about excess!

 

 

Codex says "The Noise Marine Champion may replace his bolt pistol and boltgun with items from the Champion Equipment list".

& "Any model may replace its boltgun with a chainsword or sonic blaster"

 

You can't replace the boltgun with sonic blaster and Champion equipment list. The same way you cannot replace a Helbrute fist with a missile launcher and a power scourge.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

can we take a power weapon and a sonic blaster both on the champion?

No coz sonic blaster already replace boltgun, so you dont have anu boltgun left to replace with Champ equipment.

This is wrong. The champion starts with a bolter and a bolt pistol, swapping the bolter for a sonic blaster and the pistol for something from the champion equipment list(where the power weapons are listed).

He or she may also take a Doom Siren, swapped for nothing. You can end up with a doom siren, a sonic blaster and a combi-weapon, shooting all of them in the same turn even. Talk about excess!

 

 

Codex says "The Noise Marine Champion may replace his bolt pistol and boltgun with items from the Champion Equipment list".

& "Any model may replace its boltgun with a chainsword or sonic blaster"

 

You can't replace the boltgun with sonic blaster and Champion equipment list. The same way you cannot replace a Helbrute fist with a missile launcher and a power scourge.

 

That also means you can replace only one of them.

It's just written like that so you can exchange both of them if you want to. If they had written it as "or boltgun" then the Champion would have to keep either his pistol or his boltgun.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

That's not how i understand it. For me you must replace both boltgun and boltpistol to get access to Champ equipment. So if you don't have access to boltgun anymore you don't have access to champ equipment. 

[Panzer]

That's not how i understand it.

Obviously.