[HH1.0] Tactica Chainaxe: World Eaters

[Ethrion]

You can't infiltrate units that don't have the rule. Were you thinking about Scout instead?

Sorry quite right, I meant scout.

 

On another note, putting Khârn with Red Butchers gives the squad much needed high initiative AP2 hitting power as well as more armourbane. However that requires a land raider or another Kharybdis :|

[Guiltysparc]

This might be more at home in the army list section but i've received good feedback here...on my 2500pt list i was thinking i might reduce the number of marines in the spartan muderball from 20 down to 15, change the contemptor to a cortus, and drop the aux drive from the spartan.  The point savings would buy me a 3rd MM/CML/HK Javelin, which i think would be nice.  

 

22 models flying out of a spartan seems awesome but i think it might be a bit unwieldy on the board.  The reduced BS/WS of the cortus is a fine trade off for 5 more outflanking/deep striking S8 shots from the javelin group.  I'm not as sure about dropping the auxilliary drive from the spartan, but it still has flare sheild/ceramite so i feel like its plenty survivable.  Thoughts?

[Nova_chron]

So I'm reaching into the collective knowledge of all my fellow pit fighters here I'm trying to write up a list to represent the triarii (spelling?) for ZM range is 500-1500 to start what do you feel would represent our legions greatest boarding forces and if you wanted to write a defender and attacker what would your changes be? I'm planning to convert Delvarus soon. How would you guys run him? I'm looking to be fairly competitive but I'm not going to compromise it being a believable world eaters boarding force to win games. (basically gotta have bodies with axes and I'll be happy)

[Guiltysparc]

I feel like Inductii would make for good triarii not to mention be pretty brutal in ZM games.  The downside fluffwise would be you would have to treat Delvarus as a regular sargent since ICs can't join inductii units.  I think he was a capt? in betrayer.  Maybe have one inductii squad and one regular despoilers squad for a Legion Champion Centurion to join. 

[Fangbanger]

This might be more at home in the army list section but i've received good feedback here...on my 2500pt list i was thinking i might reduce the number of marines in the spartan muderball from 20 down to 15, change the contemptor to a cortus, and drop the aux drive from the spartan.  The point savings would buy me a 3rd MM/CML/HK Javelin, which i think would be nice.  

 

22 models flying out of a spartan seems awesome but i think it might be a bit unwieldy on the board.  The reduced BS/WS of the cortus is a fine trade off for 5 more outflanking/deep striking S8 shots from the javelin group.  I'm not as sure about dropping the auxilliary drive from the spartan, but it still has flare sheild/ceramite so i feel like its plenty survivable.  Thoughts?

You are right, 20 dudes in a Spartan can be problematic. If the thing goes bang, you gotta place all of them in the area it used to be and that ain't happening so you will loose some. Also, getting 20 in combat at any one time is difficult. Having said that, when you do get them all in, that's an extra 20-25 attacks on the charge which can make a big difference.

 

I'd say 15 is the minimum though

[Guiltysparc]

it would end up being 15 marines + Khârn + gahlan, so 17 all together.

[Nova_chron]

I feel like Inductii would make for good triarii not to mention be pretty brutal in ZM games.  The downside fluffwise would be you would have to treat Delvarus as a regular sargent since ICs can't join inductii units.  I think he was a capt? in betrayer.  Maybe have one inductii squad and one regular despoilers squad for a Legion Champion Centurion to join.

 

I've been looking at inducti as an option and it's extremely tempting to run that. While Delvarus was a captain and the legion's champion in the pits I cannot shake the feeling that he had to be higher placed than just a centurion but maybe that's just because I like his character so much. After playing some ZM I really want to take a unit of terminators they are just viciously dangerous in my meta...

[Guiltysparc]

Well keep in mind that Khârn was also a centurian even though he was basically the legion master. I feel like rank held little sway in terms of leadership for the world eaters. It was perhaps something awarded as an after thought by Angron or senior officers, but 12th legionaries followed brothers based on deeds more so than rank.

[Nova_chron]

True

[Ethrion]

I've found taking Gahlan in my list, loading a Kharybdis with 19 despoilers and an apothecary then dropping it amongst the enemy lines works quite well. They no longer count as scoring but they don't give away a vp either and let's be honest they won't be surviving to cap an objective.

 

It forces the enemy to respond to the threat and buys time for other stuff to charge across the board. Plus it is extremely fluffy - a unit of stimmed up Inductii with +1A, +1S and 5+FnP with no hope of survival being dropped directly into the meatgrinder..."Dillon you SoB..."

[Slips]

Even better when you take Crimson Path for a 4+ FNP (+1 to existing) in your Enemies Deployment zone. Makes them that much tougher vs Non S8 Shooting.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Ethrion]

Even better when you take Crimson Path for a 4+ FNP (+1 to existing) in your Enemies Deployment zone. Makes them that much tougher vs Non S8 Shooting.

Yeah, I'm still leaning more towards berzerker assault over the new rite of war. FnP 4+ is great but hatred seems better. But maybe that's just with my local meta and list. Unless of course I'm going up against something that's heavy with defensive grenades where hatred and all the charge bonuses are meaningless...then the crimson path would be superior.

[AlphariusOmegon108]

Why not take 10 power weapon veterans with melta bombs, Gahlan and Khârn with Gorechild in a Kharydbiss, add in crimson path and tadaa.... A 3+ FnP power weapon unit with a character slaighterer to boot in a badass assault drop pod.

 

and to make it even better, a second kharydbiss with 9 red butchers and a primus medicea. Fill the rest of the list with despoilers in Rhino's, and a few deredeo's

Edited March 16, 2016 by AlphariusOmegon108

[Fangbanger]

I find hatred to good to give up however can always put a Chaplin in with units and the butchers already have it I suppose

I've found taking Gahlan in my list, loading a Kharybdis with 19 despoilers and an apothecary then dropping it amongst the enemy lines works quite well. They no longer count as scoring but they don't give away a vp either and let's be honest they won't be surviving to cap an objective.

 

It forces the enemy to respond to the threat and buys time for other stuff to charge across the board. Plus it is extremely fluffy - a unit of stimmed up Inductii with +1A, +1S and 5+FnP with no hope of survival being dropped directly into the meatgrinder..."Dillon you SoB..."

You get a 4+ with surlak

[Flint13]

 

Even better when you take Crimson Path for a 4+ FNP (+1 to existing) in your Enemies Deployment zone. Makes them that much tougher vs Non S8 Shooting.

 

Yeah, I'm still leaning more towards berzerker assault over the new rite of war. FnP 4+ is great but hatred seems better. But maybe that's just with my local meta and list. Unless of course I'm going up against something that's heavy with defensive grenades where hatred and all the charge bonuses are meaningless...then the crimson path would be superior.

  

 

This is the exact issue I'm having. Everytime I feel like hatred on 3/4s of the board kinda eclipses +1 FnP on 1/4 of the board.

 

Essentially I think it comes down to "are you droppodding?"

 

 

Why not take 10 power weapon veterans with melta bombs, Gahlan and Khârn with Gorechild in a Kharydbiss, add in crimson path and tadaa.... A 3+ FnP power weapon unit with a character slaighterer to boot in a badass assault drop pod.

and to make it even better, a second kharydbiss with 9 red butchers and a primus medicea. Fill the rest of the list with despoilers in Rhino's, and a few deredeo's

The veterans would pe powerful, sure, but 10 Inductii w/ chainaxes and Str 5 is only 150pts. We get such an awesome pile of essentially free upgrades for our basic 150pt tact squad, seems a shame not to use that bargain.

[Fangbanger]

I think even in podding I'm leaning towards hatred. The fnp boost is nice as it gives us more survivability but one of those pods is likely to have inducti with surlak anyway for 4+fnp, another angron who murders anyway and then butchers who will only be getting noped by high str weapons that double out anyway

[Hesh Kadesh]

The game supports killing things as fast as possible. Best defence is a good offense and all that.

 

An enemy model cannot hurt you if it's dead. The game is built aroumd Glass Cannons, although truly resilient tanks (not the vehicle, the role) have their place somewhere, you cannot win a game with just having tanks; look at Iron Hands and Imperial Fists, compared to NL and RG who are arguably top of the tier tree.

[Ethrion]

I find hatred to good to give up however can always put a Chaplin in with units and the butchers already have it I suppose

I've found taking Gahlan in my list, loading a Kharybdis with 19 despoilers and an apothecary then dropping it amongst the enemy lines works quite well. They no longer count as scoring but they don't give away a vp either and let's be honest they won't be surviving to cap an objective.

 

It forces the enemy to respond to the threat and buys time for other stuff to charge across the board. Plus it is extremely fluffy - a unit of stimmed up Inductii with +1A, +1S and 5+FnP with no hope of survival being dropped directly into the meatgrinder..."Dillon you SoB..."

You get a 4+ with surlak

 

For me Gahlan goes in a more valuable unit somewhere else. I leave the inductti to do their own thing alone with a cheap apothecary elite.

[Slips]

If you're running Crimson Path with Angron and Surlak, I'd strap Surlak to Angrons Back for a 3+ FNP meaning Angron would be 3+/4++/FNP(3+) and, unless I'm mistaken, Crimson Path states that IC's in the Detachment (and not IC'd with LA:WE?) get +1 to IWND if they already have it meaning Angron would also have a 4+ IWND.

 

Being a Glass Cannon was his Main weakness and this makes him quite the fair bit tougher.

 

Its not like he was benefiting all that much from Berserker Assault anyways.

 

If you're not running Angron then its a toss up.

[Fangbanger]

Angron is not legion astartes so cannot benefit from the +1 fnp

[Slips]

I would argue that since its Surlak whose giving out FNP(4+) that gets boosted to FNP(3+) with the RoW that thats how Angron would get FNP 3+ but otherwise, whatever. 50% chance to negate damage is still nice.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Fangbanger]

Yeah that way works I guess

[Terminus]

 

 

 

 

LACAL will be updated within a couple of months, so I'd stick with the other 2 for now.

It's certainly going to be later than that. We still need to get the Questoris/Militia/Auxilia red book, and I'm pretty sure Inferno will come before the LACAL book.

The updated LACAL was sent off to the printers shortly before the weekender. This comes from weekender attendees who were told as much by Alan Bligh (peace be upon him). We even have some details about the contents. Assault Squads are due for a price cut, and Breachers are inexplicably unchanged.

 

I'm not sure what the basis for your certainty is, but the above information was discussed fairly widely during the weekender. The Questoris/Militia/Auxillia book should theoretically be released before LACAL, but LACAL is significantly further advanced than Inferno.

 

The status of the books and presumable order of release as of the weekender was:

 

Retribution: On sale at the event

LEAOD: On sale in very limited numbers

Questoris/Militia/Auxillia Book: Finished, being printed

LACAL: Finished, sent to printers a few days earlier, release expected in a few months

Inferno: Not finished, rules not finalised, release expected at the end of the year

No certainty here, but wide discussion/wish listing with no concrete statement of what you claim informs my opinion. I would most certainly like to be wrong, because it's annoying to have to be gentle with your primary rules reference (don't want to mess up my nice black CAL binding) and lots of rules need updating. The "it's at the printers" comment from Bligh I read was about the AoD and Questoris books, with a few advanced copies of the former available at the event. Link to where you hopefully show otherwise? I would really really like a new LACAL book.

[TemujinZero]

No promises, but I'll have a look if I have time (gigantic weekender posts, ugh).

 

I have the black lacal book hiding in my closet too. I took photos of the pages so I don't have to break it out every time I have to look stuff up.

 

Obligatory on topic comment: WE can field several cheapish units that can, with few exceptions, kill anything they charge. I don't know why you'd want to field some of these ridiculous units like Angron + characters + 10 red butchers in a spartan. There's no reward for wiping out the opposing unit 3 times over. You should be using those points to kill 3 units.

[Ethrion]

WE can field several cheapish units that can, with few exceptions, kill anything they charge. I don't know why you'd want to field some of these ridiculous units like Angron + characters + 10 red butchers in a spartan. There's no reward for wiping out the opposing unit 3 times over. You should be using those points to kill 3 units.

Exactly. The only caveat I would add is that it's worth running Angron and a bodyguard of terminators so that they can go toe to toe with someone elses primarch deathstar or so that he can pile into a unit, overkill it, survive the enevitable torrent of incoming fire from the enemy, and then do it again and again.

 

That said if the unit is just ablative wounds then it's a debate as to whether terminators or just marines would work best.

 

Personally we don't run primarchs every game of 30k here so most of my lists don't include Angron. I try and have multiple units of threat: 5 red butchers in an anvillus, 5 command terminators in an anvillus, 8 terminators in a kharybdis. That way there's no deathstar and the eggs are in multiple baskets.