[HH1.0] Tactica Chainaxe: World Eaters

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Well, if he's in a squad with the tank ace vanquisher, the second Vanquisher gets tank Hunter too.

 

Personally I always use them in at least a pair, with one tank ace, but I can see the argument against it in a smaller point game.

 

I like the rapier idea! Those little guys are super resilient in cover and very versatile.

 

I've packed both sets of models. I will decide at the time, but if it gets tank hunters that could help. Just gotta hope the gun hits!

 

It just seems that even with the extra re-roll on pen, it doesn't stack up to the deluge of shatter shells or 10 attack charge both bikes will have ontop of the melta bombs they carry. Oh well, if one choice fails miserably I'll try with the other lot next time :)

Edited March 26, 2016 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Flint13]

Well honestly, you can pretty much never go wrong with quad mortars packing shatter shells since they're so incredibly versatile. The vanquisher is really good at high value armor targets. The quad mortars are good at light/medium armor targets and drowning infantry in wounds. So for high end armor, the vanquisher will do a better job for you (especially when loaded with a tank ace) but the quads are better against a larger variety of things.  

 

Besides they're, what like 70pts in the legion list now? Crazy good value. 

[God-Potato of Mankind]

So I return, with the batrep in the main AoD forum for your viewing pleasure. 

 

I'll break down the units and their score for me.

 

1) Despoilers

 

Amazing. Rolling 45 dice from 15 despoilers on the charge is a sublimely satisfying feeling and also an effective one. I wiped out an entire despoiler squad and a Dark Fury squad got neutralised along with their Chaplain, the remaining 2 Dark Furies died to a power fist and the Chaplain's bolt pistol (Yes, BP v Artificer :D). They then got engaged by Corax and a dual-Fist contemptor so know I know the importance of:

 

2) Spartans!

 

I got the major reason they exist is to deliver smashy things, but don't underestimate TL QuadLascannon. 4 re-rollable S9 AP2 shots is great. One Spartan was instrumental in shooting down Corax and wiped a Dreadnought out in one volley. If I'd fired all 4 turn 1 I'd likely have been able to put down most of the enemy dreadnoughts. 

 

3) Attack bikes

 

Didn't get a shot off. They got alpha striked as my opponent worried about the doom they would inflict on his dreadnoughts. I think I'll invest the points in a more resilient, also easier to paint unit! 

 

4) Deredeo. Ohhh this one, this one was tricky. I think my main issue was I got very good to hit rolls, but my to wound rolls were consistently 1-2s through all 5 turns :( The autocannon was meh throughout, inflicting only a few marine casualties in the game. The Aiolos was definitely a sound investment though - it pinned the plasma support squad via interceptor, saving my Dracosian from 20 plasma shots into the Dracosian side armour. The last Aiolos volley also stripped Corax of his final wound :) Seems to still be an autoinclude, despite the AC. 

 

5) HQs. All my HQs performed superbly. They all got into challenges with enemy HQs and slew all with ease.

 

Gahlan Surlak - Making a despoiler squad inductii and 4+ FNP is worth the 110pts alone really. I didn't use Exhortation of Butchery, due to forgetting, which would have provided 60 attacks on the charge which could  have made the crucial difference in putting the Furies down - which would have saved Gahlan Surlak and most of the squad. They could have then lost half the squad, but Gahlan would have survived and his axe could actually hurt the contemptor. 

 

His did admirably in his challenge, but my opponent tried to claim a 4+ invuln for the "rosarius" on his Chaplain, so he didn't have any invulns. Gahlan however, has a 3+ armour, 4+ FNP AND 5+ invuln, allowing for a potential 3 rolls to save his majesty from doom. Which he did. He then gets to swing a power axe at WS6. Good stuff. Put the enemy Chaplain down real good. 

 

Chaplain - Well worth the points, naturally. Syncs really well with the re-rolls of 1 on the charge, so you re roll those 2s and 3s for MAXIMUM translation of to hits to wounds. Thunderhammer inflicted 2 wounds on Corax, but the devious bugger rolled two 5+ saves successfully. He also hammered a Contemptor into pulp after tanking his power fists. Boss-mode. 

 

Small Auxilia review as it's not technically World Eaters:

 

Vanquisher - Potentially great, failed to scratch a Contemptor due to terrible dice rolls, then got Khere'd. I'm bringing it again as the cannon can and will do work, but needs to be as far away as possible - which I cocked up. 

 

Dracosian - Opponent admitted it was a primary target due to the demolisher, and if I hadn't moved it forward, it might have shot more than once before getting shaked and blown up later. Will be bringing it again to try and get it to do some work. 

 

Veletarii - Aceballs. 110pts of Choomy victory. Shredded an assault squad in a single glorious volley, killing more than half. Veletarii sarge then tanked and beat the lone surviving Assault Marine in CC. Solid investment. 

 

Quad guns - Aceballs. Frag shells are as amazingly fun to roll as despoiler charges. Soooooo many dice, not wholly effective versus MEQ but it did kill a good enough amount compared to the S8 AP4 sunder rounds from Shatter shells and the Deredeo AC. Plus pinning tests are great. Sunder shells were great at light vehicles, popping the drop pod and some Dreadnought HPs. Well worth the volume of fire they deliver. 

 

I'm looking forward to playing again with a slightly tweaked list. 

[Guiltysparc]

thanks for the write up...its nice to hear that the spartan despoiler murderblob was so effective.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I should also add enrolling charge distance saved me as I rolled double ones on a charge.

 

Like srsly my dice rolls early game where dire...

 

I also forget I only lost 8-9 not 8-10 cos I forgot his killing of the inductii doesn't count as a vp. Getting a close draw with such a grave first turn mistake is epic.

Edited March 27, 2016 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Guiltysparc]

i was doing some math hammer and thought you guys might be interested.  This is for a squad of 15 marines with Khârn and gahlan.  I split the wound count for at/above initiative 1.

 

Assumptions - Tac Sargent has power fist, Hatred from Berserk Assualt, Rage from Bloodlust, Reroll 1s from updated legion rule, this unit gets the charge.

 

These are unsaved wounds:

 

 

MEQ vs WS4 vs T4 vs 3+ At I4+ 11.4     At I1 5.7     Total 17.2    

 

Terminators vs WS4 vs T4 vs 2+/4++ At I4+ 5.9     At I1 2.9     Total 8.8    

 

Some 40k units for fun...

 

Thunder Cav vs WS5 vs T5 vs 3+/3++ At I4+ 6.5     At I1 1.6     Total 8.1    

 

 

Riptide vs WS2 vs T6 vs 2+/5++ At I4+ 3.1     At I1 3.3     Total 6.5    

 

Necron Wraith vs WS4 vs T5 vs 3++/5+ RP At I4+ 4.3     At I1 1.1     Total 5.5    

 

Wraithknight vs WS4 vs T8 vs 3+ At I4+ 1.1     At I1 2.8     Total 3.9    

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by Guiltysparc

[Fangbanger]

Is that with the nails turned up to for the extra attack?

[Slips]

Dont think they're inductiis because IC's wouldnt be able to join them, iirc.

[Guiltysparc]

Not inductii and also not with the extra apothecary granted attacks.

[Fangbanger]

Dont think they're inductiis because IC's wouldnt be able to join them, iirc.

Any unit with an apothecary or surlak is able to have an extra attack each per combat phase Wether they are inducti or not

[Guiltysparc]

here is it with the extra attack from exaltation of butchery:

 

 

MEQ vs WS4 vs T4 vs 3+ At I4+ 14.5     At I1 7.3     Total 21.8    

 

Terminators vs WS4 vs T4 vs 2+/4++ At I4+ 7.2     At I1 3.7     Total 10.9    

 

 

Thunder Cav vs WS5 vs T5 vs 3+/3++ At I4+ 8.0     At I1 2.0     Total 10.0    

 

 

Riptide vs WS2 vs T6 vs 2+/5++ At I4+ 3.8     At I1 4.1     Total 7.9  

 

 

Necron Wraith vs WS4 vs T5 vs 3+/3++ At I4+ 5.3     At I1 1.4     Total 6.8    

 

 

Wraithknight vs WS4 vs T8 vs 3+ At I4+ 1.3     At I1 3.5     Total 4.8    

 

 

pretty decent improvement

[Flint13]

Nice! Thanks for running those numbers, Guilty.

 

The one I'm still super curious about though, is if Exhortations of Butchery works out mathematically.

 

Essentially we're trading 1 dead guy for six extra attacks. I'm curious if there's a difference in whether or not that is "worth it" against different targets. 

[Guiltysparc]

I put the two side by side with the differences here:

 

 

MEQ with EoB

At I4+ = +2.6

At I1 = +1.3

Total = +4

 

TEQ with EoB

At I4+ = +1.3

At I1 = +0.7

Total = +2.0

 

 

 

ICs in the unit get the extra attack also, right, they just don't have to take the "opps i died" test afterwards?

 

Also, i have this in excel so if there is a specific unit you want me to run just post up the stats and i'll run it through the spreadsheet.

 

 

edit: well thats impossible to read, couldnt get the tables to work so i just posted the MEQ and Terminator differences since i have to key them in.  I'm happy to run other units if you guys have any you'd like to see.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Guiltysparc

[Fangbanger]

Vs some mecanicum would probably be interesting...

[Guiltysparc]

Good idea...

 

Thalax - even with the 6+ FnP they get absolutely wrecked with their 4+ saves being nullified by chainaxes...29.1 unsaved wounds with EoB, 23.6 without, so probably not worth the potential death tax unless you are charging a blob of 10 or more (3 wounds each).  Most of these are at I4.

 

Castellax - the T7 hurts here, 7.0 unsaved wounds with EoB, 5.7 without.  A pretty even split between I4+ and I1.  These dues have 4 wounds so EoB is probably worth it, even against 1, to be sure of killing.

 

Thantar - T8, hard to hurt, 4.4 wounds with EoB, 3.6 without.  With 4 wounds this unit should still die to a charge.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Guiltysparc

[Guiltysparc]

also, on the higher toughness units i hope i am remembering the to wound table right...you need a 6+ so long as you are within 3, right?  ie, S4 wounds T7 on a 6 but can't wound T8?

[Flint13]

^That is correct.

[Guiltysparc]

ok good, then my numbers should be pretty accurate.

[Fangbanger]

I'm not sure characters can benefit from the star attack. Not that it will make much difference

[Guiltysparc]

Ah yes, just reread the rule in book 6, no effect on models with the character special rule...so no extra attack for the tac sargent either.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Ah yes, just reread the rule in book 6, no effect on models with the character special rule...so no extra attack for the tac sargent either.

 

Well with the power fist you are already supplementing a nice extra punchy attack with the swarm of S5 AP4 hits, so when fighting Thanatar & Castellax is very nice.

 

Though from my own experience power fists always bloody hit but never wound :(

[Guiltysparc]

ya, i'm refining my spreadsheet so i can redo these calcs more quickly...once i finish it i would be happy to share it with the 12th legion crew.

[Flint13]

 

Ah yes, just reread the rule in book 6, no effect on models with the character special rule...so no extra attack for the tac sargent either.

 

 

Well with the power fist you are already supplementing a nice extra punchy attack with the swarm of S5 AP4 hits, so when fighting Thanatar & Castellax is very nice.

 

Though from my own experience power fists always bloody hit but never wound :(

But we re-roll ones on the charge now!

 

I'm not saying you'll *never* roll two ones in a row, but at least it's a lot less likely.

 

I too feel the occasional sting of my dice flipping statistics and probability the bird.

[Guiltysparc]

alrighty, my spreadsheet is looking awesome...i'd be happy to run any specific units you have or if you PM me your email address i can send you a copy of it to play around with.  The numbers i had already posted were basically the same even with the extra attack on Khârn and the tac sargent.  I had forgotten that power axes are not specialist weapons so the extra attack on Gahlan washed out.

[Guiltysparc]

Here are some interesting observations on the new legion rules...

 

When fighting MEQs:

 

The extra strength from Inductii is worth +0.2 UWPD (unsaved wounds per despoiler) 

The extra attack from exhortation of butchery is worth +0.1 UWPD

The update legion rule allowing rerolls of 1s to wound is worth +0.1 UWPD

 

So when you put these all together in a 10 man squad we are looking at killing 2 more loyalists with non-inductii and 4 more with inductii over the previous rule set.  That is pretty boss.