[HH1.0] Tactica Chainaxe: World Eaters

[Flint13]

Damn, so Inductii work out as literally double the bonus over despoilers?

 

That *is* pretty boss.

[Guiltysparc]

indeed, though i would say it more generally that the +1S from inductii, when fighting your equal, is nearly twice as good as having an extra attack or rerolling 1s to wound...but the three together combine to form a voltron like level of bossness.  Compared to a vanilla marine, a 12th legion Inductii is going to put out almost 1 full additional unsaved wound against other MEQs and a non-inductii 12th legion marine is still pretty nasty putting out about half an additional unsaved wound.

[Fangbanger]

Great work dude.

 

Can we see the difference between a 10 man, 15 and 20 man tac squads on the charge. Sarge has fist

[Guiltysparc]

Ah, the curse of spreadsheets.  I had a cell sum wrong on the regular marines column which understated their wounds, so the inductii are actually a little better than my previous post.  Here are some updated numbers on the legion rules (vs MEQ):

 

Vanilla legion despoiler - 0.3 unsaved wounds

 

12th legion despoiler (incarnate violence and blood madness) - 0.4 unsaved wounds

12th legion despoiler (incarnate violence, blood madness, exhortation of butchery) - 0.5 unsaved wounds

12th legion despoiler in a berserker assault army while in enemy deployment zone with EoB - 0.7 unsaved wounds

 

12th legion inductii (incarnate violence and blood madness) - 0.5 unsaved wounds

12th legion inductii (incarnate violence, blood madness, exhortation of butchery) - 0.6 unsaved wounds

12th legion inductii in a berserker assault army while in enemy deployment zone with EoB - 0.9 unsaved wounds

 

Incarnate Violence - reroll 1s to wound

Blood Madness - rage (+2A on the charge instead of 1)

Exhortation of Butchery - +1A

Berserker Assault - +Hatred when in enemy deployment zone

Inductii - +1S

 

 

 

Fangbanger- sure, these numbers represent inductii with all the goodies in effect.

 

Despoiler squad with powerfist sargent vs MEQ:

 

10 man - 11.0 unsaved wounds

15 man - 15.6 unsaved wounds

20 man - 20.2 unsaved wounds

[temneb]

So really we only have to get there half strength to do damage! Suddenly foot slogging armies are looking more viable?

[Guiltysparc]

Indeed, it seems that even if outnumbered 3:1, an inductii will still break even on against other legionaries...and if they are going against non-despoiler tac marines it would be a little better even.

[Slips]

What about vs TEQ (or WS5 Equivalents) and, say, a Generic WS6, S6, T6 6W body...y'know...for research

Edited April 8, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Guiltysparc]

What about vs TEQ (or WS5 Equivalents) and, say, a Generic WS6, S6, T6 6W body...y'know...for research

 

Do you want the 10/15/20 Inductii vs these three?

[Slips]

Sure, more data points the better!

[Guiltysparc]

Inductii squad with powerfist sargent vs TEQ (Cataphractii):

 

10 man - 5.8 unsaved wounds

15 man - 8.3 unsaved wounds

20 man - 10.7 unsaved wounds

 

vs Generic 6er - WS6, T6, 2+/4++

 

10 man - 3.6 unsaved wounds

15 man - 4.9 unsaved wounds

20 man - 6.1 unsaved wounds

[Guiltysparc]

I put the workbook out on dropbox, see if you guys can download it.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4drggm3mca4h0l4/Combat%20Sim.xlsx?dl=0

 

Any of the green cells are input cells where you can type stuff.  I built it to the Khârn/gahlan/despoiler squad but i added dropboxes so you can chose.  If you key entries into the Tables tab starting with row 37 they will show up as selections in the drop boxes for the attacking unit, then you can model whatever you want.  For the target unit you just key the stats in and off you go.

[temneb]

Thank you very much.

I'm at work so can't do it myself yet.

But I'm curious about a power axe vs the power fist. Extra attack at Str 6.

 

If you have time

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Can confirm, 15 man Inductii v 10 man Destroyer Squad = complete wipe of Destroyers. You do suffer casualties though, but it's so much fun. 

 

I wouldn't say it makes footslogging more viable though, they may hit harder but they're still the same level fo resilience so need to be safely ensconced in armoured transports.

 

Good to hear they hurt terminators too...good. Goooood.

[Guiltysparc]

Thank you very much.

I'm at work so can't do it myself yet.

But I'm curious about a power axe vs the power fist. Extra attack at Str 6.

 

If you have time

 

Sure, this using a non-inductii sargent so base 2 attacks via the profile.  Includes rage, hatred, and WE legion buffs except exhortation of butchery since that doesn't apply to characters.

 

vs MEQ

Power Axe - 2.9

Power Fist - 2.9

 

vs TEQ

Power Axe - 1.5

Power Fist - 1.5

 

vs The Generic 6er (WS6, T6, 2+/4++)

Power Axe - 0.7

Power Fist - 1.5

 

edit:  so i carried out the decimals and it turns out these are statistically equivalent.  vs MEQ is 2.9167... for both,  vs TEQ its 1.4583... for both, so that is kind of interesting.  I was thinking maybe one had the edge but for the rounding, nope.  In that case i am thinking the advantage goes to the power fist for the potential instant death against T4s, though it is a more point expensive option....kind of makes me rethink the powerfist sargent auto-upgrade.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Guiltysparc

[Guiltysparc]

have we talked about praevian yet?  I love the admech models and adding a praevian to the army would let me field some of them.  

 

Also, the ones that come with his maniple gain the LA(World Eaters) special rule which would grant them rage and rerolling 1s to wound in comat, making them a pretty spicy unit.  The castellex could be outfitted to help with some longer range higher strength fire support.  The vorax could scout up and provide some early game harrasment while the rest of your army moves up the board.

 

I kind of like this unit:

 

430pts

Praevian - Artificer Armor, Thunder Hammer, Castellex Maniple with Enchanced Targetting Array (+1BS, -1 Cover)

2x Castellex - Darkfire Cannon (60" S7 AP2 Heavy 2, Lance, Blind, Gets Hot), Twin Power Blades (S6 AP2 Melee)

 

That unit would have 4 S7 AP 2 shots as BS5 with the -1 cover save, and 10 (!) S6 AP2 attacks on the charge plus the Praevian 3 S8 attacks.  Its a bit muddled in terms of role, but this particular load out fits perfectly point-wise into my 2500 to expand it up.

 

The other option would be 4 Vorax with their fleshbane, radphage flamers scouting up the board.  They are S6 monsterous creatures also so they would be pretty effective off the charge also.

 

Thoughts?

[Fangbanger]

Thanks for all the info mate, great stuff!

 

I too am looking to mechanicum. I want to start a legit cybernetica force so allies or Pravien would be good place to start I imagine

[Flint13]

have we talked about praevian yet?  I love the admech models and adding a praevian to the army would let me field some of them.  

 

Also, the ones that come with his maniple gain the LA(World Eaters) special rule which would grant them rage and rerolling 1s to wound in comat, making them a pretty spicy unit.  The castellex could be outfitted to help with some longer range higher strength fire support.  The vorax could scout up and provide some early game harrasment while the rest of your army moves up the board.

 

I kind of like this unit:

 

430pts

Praevian - Artificer Armor, Thunder Hammer, Castellex Maniple with Enchanced Targetting Array (+1BS, -1 Cover)

2x Castellex - Darkfire Cannon (60" S7 AP2 Heavy 2, Lance, Blind, Gets Hot), Twin Power Blades (S6 AP2 Melee)

 

That unit would have 4 S7 AP 2 shots as BS5 with the -1 cover save, and 10 (!) S6 AP2 attacks on the charge plus the Praevian 3 S8 attacks.  Its a bit muddled in terms of role, but this particular load out fits perfectly point-wise into my 2500 to expand it up.

 

The other option would be 4 Vorax with their fleshbane, radphage flamers scouting up the board.  They are S6 monsterous creatures also so they would be pretty effective off the charge also.

 

Thoughts?

I've got a Praevian I use semi-regularly (but not since the LA:WE update). He's pretty fun.

 

Unfortunately stock Castellax already have rage. The re-roll 1s to wound sounds awesome though!

 

The Vorax actually sound pretty amazing directed by a Praevian. They do get the benefits of rage.

[temneb]

 

 

Thank you very much.

I'm at work so can't do it myself yet.

But I'm curious about a power axe vs the power fist. Extra attack at Str 6.

 

If you have time

Sure, this using a non-inductii sargent so base 2 attacks via the profile. Includes rage, hatred, and WE legion buffs except exhortation of butchery since that doesn't apply to characters.

 

vs MEQ

Power Axe - 2.9

Power Fist - 2.9

 

vs TEQ

Power Axe - 1.5

Power Fist - 1.5

 

vs The Generic 6er (WS6, T6, 2+/4++)

Power Axe - 0.7

Power Fist - 1.5

 

edit: so i carried out the decimals and it turns out these are statistically equivalent. vs MEQ is 2.9167... for both, vs TEQ its 1.4583... for both, so that is kind of interesting. I was thinking maybe one had the edge but for the rounding, nope. In that case i am thinking the advantage goes to the power fist for the potential instant death against T4s, though it is a more point expensive option....kind of makes me rethink the powerfist sargent auto-upgrade.

Thanks for that.

With the inductii srg, I had the axe doing better due to Str 6 and the extra attack from 2 cc weapons. Obviously not against toughness 6.

[Nova_chron]

So how are you guys marking out your inducti squads I feel like I want to make them distinct from my other tactical one thought was obviously no bolter and all painted the same... but I also was tempted to make them the white and red scheme from book 6.

 

On to tactics I'm running a pseudo armored berserker assault list and I keep feeling a need for some fast movers, what have you guys found to be effective in filling the role of a first hit or engagement unit to lock something in place while despoiler and other bigger assault elements maneuver for the charge?

[Guiltysparc]

So how are you guys marking out your inducti squads I feel like I want to make them distinct from my other tactical one thought was obviously no bolter and all painted the same... but I also was tempted to make them the white and red scheme from book 6.

 

On to tactics I'm running a pseudo armored berserker assault list and I keep feeling a need for some fast movers, what have you guys found to be effective in filling the role of a first hit or engagement unit to lock something in place while despoiler and other bigger assault elements maneuver for the charge?

Welp, we'll see how the turn 1 leviathan drop pod works next weekend. =D

 

But you know, I am kind of liking the praevian and vorax unit...a bunch of scouting monstrous creatures would certainly get the enemy's attention.

[Guiltysparc]

 

 

Thank you very much.

I'm at work so can't do it myself yet.

But I'm curious about a power axe vs the power fist. Extra attack at Str 6.

 

If you have time

Sure, this using a non-inductii sargent so base 2 attacks via the profile. Includes rage, hatred, and WE legion buffs except exhortation of butchery since that doesn't apply to characters.

 

vs MEQ

Power Axe - 2.9

Power Fist - 2.9

 

vs TEQ

Power Axe - 1.5

Power Fist - 1.5

 

vs The Generic 6er (WS6, T6, 2+/4++)

Power Axe - 0.7

Power Fist - 1.5

 

edit: so i carried out the decimals and it turns out these are statistically equivalent. vs MEQ is 2.9167... for both, vs TEQ its 1.4583... for both, so that is kind of interesting. I was thinking maybe one had the edge but for the rounding, nope. In that case i am thinking the advantage goes to the power fist for the potential instant death against T4s, though it is a more point expensive option....kind of makes me rethink the powerfist sargent auto-upgrade.

Thanks for that.

With the inductii srg, I had the axe doing better due to Str 6 and the extra attack from 2 cc weapons. Obviously not against toughness 6.

 

 

For inductii sargents it looks like this...

 

vs MEQ

Power Axe - 3.6

Power Fist - 2.9

 

vs TEQ

Power Axe - 1.8

Power Fist - 1.5

 

vs The Generic 5er (WS5, T5, 2+/4++)

Power Axe - 1.5

Power Fist - 1.5

 

vs The Generic 6er (WS6, T6, 2+/4++)

Power Axe - 1.1

Power Fist - 1.5

 

So you are correct about the axe.  The power axe is the clear winner for T4 though and they are statistically equivalent for T5 putting out 1.5 wounds each.  So ya, if you are running inductii who will be targeting single wound T4 or 5, go with the axe.  For multi-wound targets, maybe you stick with the fist for ID.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Guiltysparc

[Fangbanger]

Units for hammer and anvil:

 

Levi in pod

Anvilus with butchers

Kharybdis with despoilers (add angron to taste)

 

Also worth considering:

 

Jetbike

Bikes

[Flint13]

So how are you guys marking out your inducti squads I feel like I want to make them distinct from my other tactical one thought was obviously no bolter and all painted the same... but I also was tempted to make them the white and red scheme from book 6.

 

On to tactics I'm running a pseudo armored berserker assault list and I keep feeling a need for some fast movers, what have you guys found to be effective in filling the role of a first hit or engagement unit to lock something in place while despoiler and other bigger assault elements maneuver for the charge?

 

I've been experimenting with that. 

 

So far, I've been using the FW Khorne berzerker helms (the ones with the little teeth and horns), just painted white instead of red n brass. 

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I use regular power armour with little else. I use caedere helms (the one with two points) for veterans. 

Inductii are viewed as disposable fodder, so I wouldn't expect much effort into ornating their wargear with stuff like fancy helms. 

 

That said Caedere helms are for those "blessed" to have succumbed totally to the lust of battle, so can be perfect for Inductii! 

[T0MMY]

Hi gang. Sorry to bust in unannounced but I had a couple of queries, so I thought I'd chuck them at you learned lot... (Apologies if they're dumb!) so:

 

1. Chainaxes. HH1 says if you're "Legion Astartes: World Eater" you can swap any chainsword for a chainaxe? If my list is WE (i.e. painted blue and white with spiky bits etc) do they automatically get this rule or do I have to have a WE character as general??

 

2. Rampager squads. Not much chat about them, everyone says vets are better bet, but rampagers get "Scout" do they not? Meaning they can redeploy into the board. Can they still do this if given jump packs or does the "bulky" rule override the scout rule in this case?

 

If so, I guess vets are better.

 

I'm about to put 10-15 marines together and I need to know whether to go rampagers with JP or Vets with power weapons, etc. I might do a mix just because rampagers.

 

Cheers in advance.