The Legion for you... Community Assistance Thread

[depthcharge12]

Sounds like you should do IF. They do big squads of Bolter marines quite well (able to transition over to 40k with a special weapons swap) and devastators squads quite well.

 

You can still slap in Th/SS terminators since IF are one of two or three legions that can actually do it. I'm assuming you can take relic vehicles and FW stuff like special dreads or tanks, so that should be no issue as well.

[Atia]

Breacher Marines have a crossover in 40k - check out the Siege Assault Vanguard army list

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Siege_Assault_Vanguard_Army_List_Update.pdf

 

i would probably go with Imperial Fists tbh^^

[ElectricPaladin]

Salamanders aren't boring to play in 30k. Don't forget that you can still run any Right of War you want - the native Salamanders restrictions actually don't do much to stop you from enjoying any of them. Now, they might be a little boring in 40k, but don't ask me to judge that - I play Blood Angels in 40k and have yet to test out my Salamanders' crossover potential.

[Father Mehman]

I think you should go with Death Guard. Then again, I always say that !

Out of your list of filthy Loyalists, it seems like the Imperial Fists would be your best bet if you're looking for cross-overability. You having a yellow xenos army counts for nothing here on the B&C .

Now that your Legion is settled, welcome to the Heresy!

[Quixus]

If you can delay the decision, maybe wait till Blood Angels Space Wolves and Thousand Sons get their rules. All three have awesome background (especially in the HH) and aren't blue or yellow. If you want to use the 1k Sons in 40K just make them Corvidae ;)

[Hesh Kadesh]

1500 games suck. You have 4350pts minimum tied up in your HQ and Troops. That is 21 Bolters. Bolters suck in 30k. Because there are not the T3 5+ saves knocking about unless there is a large Imperial Guard contingent.

 

I don't recommend facing 40k with 30k, despite above. Mainly because that same invesment gets you more useable options in 40k.

 

In 40k, strongest generic application is Drop Pods for Marines. That gives you two legions, maybe 3. None you have listed. In order of strongest first (IMHO, when played to potential, and against a generically recognised meta); Raven Guard, Night Lords and Alpha Legion.

 

RG are fast out of the pods, NL second and require a bit more finesse, whike last is AL, because that is a specific build, and misses out on many of the basic legion strengths which the other two lists can still capitalise on.

 

That means, to use one of the legions you want to, you may have to look into a Rhini based 40k one. Which does well with with most, but White Scars (Scout) got a bit of a bump although I've not seen them, let alone played for a good 18 months as most play 30k in my usual gaming group.

[Ordo Machinum]

Hesh Kadesh: 1500 point games suck. Bolters suck. Don't face 40K with 30K despite these comments. RG are fast out of Drop Pods...

 

Okay, I don't agree with many of these statements. RG aren't any faster with DP's than any other legion. Yes, they have a special rule allowing more units to use them as dedicated transports, but nothing that any other built list couldn't emulate.

 

That is part of the great realm of 30K: all legions have the same toys and a dash of special rules.

 

The point of this thread is to help someone decide on a legion, not trash their choices out of the gate. In my opinion. 

 

Only the legion builder is going to know how they are going to grow their army. That comes with playing the game.

 

30K vs 40K notwithstanding. That is an issue that can be debated on and on. And Bolters never ever suck.  

 

Ciao,

R.

[Slips]

 

 

So, this thread is dedicated to assisting our Legion Brothers and Sisters in deciding on the Legion (or Legions) to choose. This is NOT a "which Legion is best" thread, but rather is a "how can we, as a unified community, help jump start your imagination" thread. 

 

 

This isn't pointed at anyone. But, with the influx of new members down here, I feel that this might need repeating to avoid any incidents. Now, In ~60 something pages, this hasn't happened. At all.

 

But, I feel that it bear reminding just to be on the safe side.

 

Now, keep at it y'all,

 

THE HERESY TRAIN HAS NO BRAKES!

 

I feel like I shouldnt have to quote myself quoting Hyenas but hey.

[Black_out]

My vote is IF. Depthcharge12 made some good points about how easy they can be to cross over and with them still being a 30k army they don't restrict some of the 30k specific weapons (phosphex and rad weapons) that the Salamanders do.

 

That being said Sallies restricting those things makes it even easier to cross into 40k.

[Midgard]

So this question might have been answered somewhere in the 60+ pages of the thread, however, after reading through about 10 pages I broke down and decided to just post it here.

 

I have recently acquired a Betrayal at Calth set, and thought about starting a 30K army or two. I am not much of a painter (as in, I enjoy painting, but my skill is, at best, "questionable"), and I rarely get to play tabletop (a function of relatively recent relocation to another part of the country, having generally little time available, and not being aware of 40K or 30K gaming scene near me), however, I would like to build out a themed Legion force or two that can be used either as Heresy-era opponents or, in a pinch, as Crusade-era allies.

 

My primary dilemma is a good starting point, both in terms of models and in terms of books. I understand that BaC contents may serve as a core of a starter army, but not necessarily a very powerful one (and I have plans of acquiring a second BaC box once the insanity of holiday spending subdues - the idea being that each BaC set will serve as a core of a different Legion). While I want to expand those forces to include Heresy-era armored vehicles, Legion-specific units, and Primarchs, I also would like to strike a balance between telling a story, having cool models, not being entirely lamentable on the tabletop (as in having a list that is not a complete pushover, not necessarily power gaming), and looking good within the limits of my painting skill.

 

I have a bit of a soft spot for "good guy" armies or "antihero" factions (as opposed to all-out Chaotic Evil), and enjoy an army that can look good on the tabletop without extreme painting skill or conversion work required, can use a number of interesting units, has a decent amount of mechanized support, and fields characters who are both fluffy, look cool, and are not a complete waste of points on the tabletop. From the fluff side, I am contemplating building out the Ultramarines ("good guys") and the Word Bearers ("antihero" - more on that later, as they are often portrayed as typical "Chaotic Evil" force) armies.

 

The XIIIth Legion's appeal has a lot to do with their portrayal in the Horus Heresy novels; while their 40K counterparts are often hidebound and may get a bad rep after years of being the GW poster boys, I like both the "sensible professional soldiers" angle, the relative humanity they display in the Heresy-era fiction, and the vaguely Roman theme. Additional plusses include the ability to use most of the models in games of 40K (either as allies for my Raven Guard, Dark Angels, or Blood Angels/Lamenters, or as a standalone army), the color scheme being something I can probably do a reasonably decent job with, and FW has a number of Ultramarine-specific models with Invictus Suzerains, Guilliman, and probably a few others.

 

The Word Bearers are one of my 40K-era armies, and I would assume that the majority of their units would also be useable with my 40K host of the XVIIth Legion (might have to do a few counts-as, but that should not be too difficult). I already have some experience painting the Word Bearer units (though, admittedly, not very well), they have some rather cool-looking unique units from Ashen Circle to Mhara Gal dread, and they have an existing Primarch model plus other special characters. Now, their portrayal in the Heresy series has been somewhat hit-and-miss, ranging from very sympathetic and conflicted individuals (in A D-B's works - hence my "antihero" angle on them) to cardboard cutout bad guys in some of the other stories, but I would assume that any Word Bearer army I would build is going to be a Shadow Crusade force rather than Underground War one, and would represent the portion of the Legion which kept some of their one-time nobility and desire for higher calling even as the corruption of Chaos began to sink in.

 

I did consider a few other Legions as well:

 

• Dark Angels - only because I have a small 40K-era army; to be honest, I like their 40K fluff/concept/colors, but am not finding them all that interesting in 30K (subject to change if new fluff comes about)
• Iron Warriors - fluff is not my favorite, but their color scheme seems to be closer to my level of ability
• Night Lords - I like the fluff and the Curze (and Sevatar) models, but don't think that I can paint them all that well, plus I would probably want to have more armored assets than I imagine a "fluffy" NL force would have (not a big deal-breaker for me, as I can always come up with different fluff, but they are not my #1 choice to begin with)
• Death Guard - the models are quite cool, and I like the very grim, brutal feel of them
• Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus - I like the background, they have some cool models, and SoH color scheme might be rather neat and different from my other armies. Conversely, I am worried that I would not be able to pull it off effectively. If I can pull it off, though, they would be a serious contender to Word Bearers as my traitor force of choice.
• Raven Guard - they are only here because they are my largest 40K-era power armored army. I like the fluff, but found them disappointing in games of 40K, plus I don't know if I want to paint that much black again. That said, if the rumors of upcoming Corax model are true, I might just get the model regardless... the question is, do I want to create 30K era Raven Guard as well?

 

I would probably find it easier to decide once I get the FW HH books, but I am getting a little lost here. In addition to main campaign books, there is a Legiones Astartes list, and probably other stuff I am not thinking about. I have plans to buy all of the books eventually, but it is probably not a very financially responsible thing (not with a family), so I'll have to do it one or two at a time. What would be the recommended starting point with the books to help me get more immersed into the Legion storylines, decide which rules make the most sense, and maybe even suggest the direction for the army?

 

Now, I also have another option, though I am not sure how realistic it would be. I have been a part of an alternate Heresy project called Twisthammer (link in my signature for anyone interested for both the project blog and one of the longer works of fiction I wrote set in that universe), where we created twenty fan-made Primarchs and Legions. If I was more talented with sculpting/graphics/painting, I would have considered modeling my Legion force as one (or more) of those alternate Legions, however, the amount of conversion it would require would probably be beyond me (especially with building Primarchs) - not to mention the absolute lack of rules for those characters/units. Considering the existing restrains on my available time and low likelihood that this army would see frequent play on the tabletop, is it even worth considering?

[Father Mehman]

In answer to your post, Midgard, I think we can cut a few Legions off the drawing board. The important thing to me when deciding on who or what to paint is interest. If the force doesn't catch my imagination then I know it isn't for me. Everyone is different but we'll go with that premise on deciding who would be a good fit.

• Dark Angels - Skip them. That's a lot of black to paint and if you've already done black, why do it again? If there was some interest there, maybe.
• Iron Warriors - Just because you can paint them doesn't mean you should do them. Fluff is a big deal when it comes to sticking with an army/Legion.
• Night Lords - If they're not Number 1 then they don't matter. No, that's a little joke. Maybe consider them for your second Legion when you have some more painting time under you belt and you feel like you could do them justice.
• Death Guard - Why hell yes! They are, in fact, very grim and brutal. Consider them (I am a bit biased, though ).
• Luna Wolves / Sons of Horus - Good fluff, cool models, and serious contenders in your mind already? Hmm...
• Raven Guard - You already have an army of them, lots of black, and you can always buy the Primarch without having the Legion. Off the list they go!
• Word Bearers - If you already have an army for 40k that is Word Bearer focussed, why do another? It seems like remaking the wheel to me but people like what they like.
• Ultramarines - Here are your basic good guys. I can't think of anything constructive- positive or negative- to say. That might be saying something.

When it comes to fluff, I'm in the camp of make it up yourself. I don't need some other person telling me how my Death Guard Company acts or what things they've done or etc, etc, etc. I know how they act- they're mine! Actually, I find it quite insulting. You're telling me that I don't have enough imagination to come up with their backstory? Says who? Someone being paid to write out imaginative books for the masses? I should apply what they say to my Company? I do my own thinking, thank you very much ! Erm, I digress. That isn't to say they can't be flavoured by the basic structure of the Legion. Anyway, don't let fluff stop you from enjoying a Legion.

With regards as to who you should pick, I'd look at the following (in no particular order): Death Guard, Ultramarines, Luna Wolves / Sons of Horus (you could have some awesome fluff with that switch ), and Night Lords. They could all make awesome Legions for you.

Hope some of this drivel helps.

[Lord Asvaldir]

First off with regards to BaC, that set really is an excellent way to start off a heresy collection. No matter what Legion you choose, you need a core of power armored marines and BaC gets you that. You can easily then strike a balance between fluffy and tabletop effective since you're always going to need marines in power armor, and you can just add on what vehicles you like. I'd say just start with BaC, then just see where you want to go from there. HH is really good for making fluffy but still effective armies, once you have your core it won't be hard to branch off and get Legion specific stuff you want that's still effective.

 

As far as your Legion choices go that's pretty large list of legions to consider, so I'd make yourself a checklist of things you want in your Legion and pick based on which Legion fits the check list. Fluff is impossible of course it's what inspires most people to like the Legions they like, but I'd also think hard about paint scheme and Legion tactics. For the paint scheme, consider is the Legion colors something you'll enjoy painting? Can you make a scheme you'll be happy painting an entire army with, or will it be too much work? Then for tactics, I'd consider if the strengths of the Legion on the table top will translate into an army you'll enjoy playing. For example even if you like the world eaters paint scheme, but you want to play a gunline army you should probably consider playing another Legion. Just don't forget the Legions are not like chapters, they are very large military units with a huge range of equipment. Want to play a night lords mechanized company? Totally cool, it might not be the normal night lords style but they definitely have armored forces. I just wouldn't go too far with counting a Legion out because it might not be the normal fluff - every Legion has assault companies, siege companies, mechanized companies etc.

[Midgard]

Thank you folks! This brings me to my other question... what would be the good Forge World books to start with for the Heresy era? Should I buy the campaign books in order, go for the Legiones Astartes army list, or something else to get going?

 

As far as the Legion armies, I am probably looking at Ultramarines, Sons of Horus, and Death Guard are the primary options, though I am far from fully decided yet... Ultramarines might be a definite all-around "good guy" army, while Sons of Horus can fit the "antihero" mold (and can represent either loyalist or traitor factions of the Legion, depending on the context of a mission). Death Guard would normally not be my thing, but I really love the models and the imagery, and there is something gritty about the Legion that makes them an appealing army... they just "click" on some level for me.

[Lord Asvaldir]

The campaign books are awesome, but it's very expensive to buy all 5, much cheaper to buy the Legion astartes crusade army list book and then grab the campaign book with your Legion's fluff in it. There's also the Istvaan campaign book with rules for all the Legions which is currently out of stock, but it's safe to bet that FW will make an updated book soon.

 

Sounds like you have good fluff reasons for considering those three legions, I'd say you can now narrow down your choices by considering paint scheme and Legion tactics.

[Charlo]

Wait a little bit and there will be a new LACL book, hopefully including some info from 6 in it too

[ZebraM]

Apart from the models and stuff what kind of equipment do I need to paint models? I've got some money for christmas and I'm interested in doing some Horus Heresy-era Alpha Legion models but I've never really done anything like it.

[TheHyperion]

Hello Everyone!

 

I know virtually nothing about the horus heresy game, however I have acquired the Betrayal at Calth box for Christmas, I am really, Really indecisive on what to paint them up as, here are my ideas.

 

Emperor's Children:

Amazing Colors

Love the Lore

Kakophoni

Eidolon

Fulgrim

 

Dark Angels:

My first 40k love

Enjoy the lore

ok color scheme

Potentially Luther and Lion el' Johnson

 

Knights-Errant:

Would be different

I dont know if they have rules

Garro is a sweet model

Saw someones cataphracti grey knights which were awesome

 

Painting tips and help picking would be amazing!

Thanks Everyone,

~Sapphon

[Caillum]

Knights Errant won't be an army - just HQ choices you can add to an existing Legion. Not a bad idea to have a couple of models put aside for when the rules hit! (Book Six hits in next couple of months)

 

Dark Angels will also be fleshed out in Book Six. If you want to do them, go for it! I'd wait to see the fluff and rules first before I got stuck into them myself. Their colour schemes are pretty basic at this stage - black armour for Terran, dark green for Calibanite. I expect we'll see more soon though!

 

Emperor's Children will be seeing a new Rite of War in Book Six, focused on the Slaanesh corruption and Kakophoni (they become Troops and gain Relentless). There's some amazing plogs in this forum showcasing EC - kizzdougs and MorgothNL come to mind - they should help you with painting ideas. :)

[TheHyperion]

Knights Errant won't be an army - just HQ choices you can add to an existing Legion. Not a bad idea to have a couple of models put aside for when the rules hit! (Book Six hits in next couple of months)

Dark Angels will also be fleshed out in Book Six. If you want to do them, go for it! I'd wait to see the fluff and rules first before I got stuck into them myself. Their colour schemes are pretty basic at this stage - black armour for Terran, dark green for Calibanite. I expect we'll see more soon though!

Emperor's Children will be seeing a new Rite of War in Book Six, focused on the Slaanesh corruption and Kakophoni (they become Troops and gain Relentless). There's some amazing plogs in this forum showcasing EC - kizzdougs and MorgothNL come to mind - they should help you with painting ideas.

Thanks! as for army construction, does it use the same basic detachment as 40k? 1hq 2 troops?

[Lord Asvaldir]

Emperor's Children will be seeing a new Rite of War in Book Six, focused on the Slaanesh corruption and Kakophoni (they become Troops and gain Relentless). There's some amazing plogs in this forum showcasing EC - kizzdougs and MorgothNL come to mind - they should help you with painting ideas.

Where did you see such detailed information on book 6? I'd love to see that info if it exists.

[Slips]

This years GW Open Day Thread that happened a few months ago. Thats where all our definitive Book 6 info is coming from since a few Frater here had the chance to chat with the FW team and we also have a few other who live in the Nottingham area and are friends with some of the designers there so they give us a few tidbits here and there that corroborate with info we get out of the events :)

 

...On another note, I'll be merging this into the "Legion For You" thread since its there for the purpose the OP is looking for: Input from the community to help him choose!

 

And dont you worry! We all love helping another member board our Breakless Heresy Train!

 

Afterall, once you're part of the ship...you're part of the crew...

[TheHyperion]

Well I think I have made my decision.... Emperor's children! I need to know what I should include in a list and what weapons to take...

~Sapphon

[TheHyperion]

Does anyone have tips on how to make a list for emperor's children as well as good fluffy units? I would like to take some form of jump pack unit eventually with eidolon, I also want to know what to outfit normal squads with.

[Slips]

Does anyone have tips on how to make a list for emperor's children as well as good fluffy units? I would like to take some form of jump pack unit eventually with eidolon, I also want to know what to outfit normal squads with.

Funny you should mention that ^_^

 

For we have an EC Tactica thread that just might serve your needs: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297556-emperors-children-tactica/

[Charlo]

At this point, I would honestly just hold out until February for book 6.

 

The meta and every Legion is going to get turned on its head!