New Codex thoughts and ideas

[Quozzo]

If activating Force, do you activate the psilancer and NFW or just the one? (I'm thinking on Terminators of course)

[Morticon]

Just once according to the force rule!

[Brovius]

Correct, one test activates all Force weapons in the squad. That's partly why I was considering a 4x Psylencer Paladin blob :p

[boreas]

The 24-shots psylencer is terrifying.... Until you get an army without MC :)

[Adeptus]

My thoughts are:

 

Halberds are useless. I already have access to S6 and S10 with Hammerhand on my regular guys. If we can't strike at I6, then getting more S6 attacks is ALWAYS going to be better than having less S7 attacks. Unfortunately, this means butchering a lot of my models.

 

The NDK was already just about the best point-for-point unit in our codex. What happened? It got boosted.

 

Purgation squads were just about useless. What happened? They stayed the same.

 

PAGK are... what do I even do with these guys? Can't fight, can't shoot, so that leaves what? At least Interceptors have the redeeming feature of being able to get their Incinerators where they want them thanks to their teleportation ability, and at least Purifiers are WC2 with a decent Psychic power.

 

Paladins were over-priced at 55 points. Even with a cheaper Apothecary, they are still over-priced at 55 points. So they are the only units that can take banners? Well, hooray I guess. And on that note, Banners are a bit crap. On the plus side, they are still relentless so yay for that I guess.

 

I like that they made Terminators a good choice. I don't like that they did it by making everything else crap.

 

We lost Rad and PSycotroke grenades, and psyk-out grenades took a nerf. Thanks, GW.

 

We lost Servo Skulls. Thanks GW.

 

This release makes me very sad. Disappointed that they missed such a good opportunity. There were a couple of little things they could have added to make the army so much more independent. A couple of little tweaks to make certain units so much more viable.

 

I am disappoint.

[Bionicman]

The 24-shots psylencer is terrifying.... Until you get an army without MC

12 shots. You can take only one per NDK.

[boreas]

I meant 4 psylencers in a squad of 10 paladins. On a NDK, I'd take HI and HP to handle hordes. You can jump in and punch MCs in CC :)

[Exile Noctis]

Depends how you want to play it.

 

Im already considering a 3rd NDK and have him with a Gatling Psilencer for a bit of fun. Combined with misfortune and prescience and it's 35 points for almost a guaranteed high priority target off the board a turn. That's not including having a 2nd weapon to assault another target after.

 

May not be ideal, but the way I see it, you can use 2 NDKs for the standard role then have a specific one to take out other targets.

 

That's just my thoughts though. As tempting as a Paladin unit is that could do the same job, I would rather have 3 NDKs roaming the board, especially when they now have Sanctuary. :D

[lt051]

On the topic of strikes, I think for the time being I'm still gonna run 2 psycannons, and will probably use 1 hammer, 3 halberds and 1 falcion points allowing. That way I don't need to waste charges getting hammer hand on them most the time. Salvo really hurts these guys though....

[boreas]

Oh, I'd take NDK before paladins, by all means. But I still feel the GP is too situational. If you have to add casting Force, misfortune and prescience, that's a lot of WC (at least 12 - 4 per power to insure success with little chance of denying).

 

The psylencer is a funny weapon if it works, but I still think that the new Hpsycannon with both shooting mode is better and the HI is always good because you'll always have a nice target in cover to incinerate...

[Exile Noctis]

Yea, it's still a conditional weapon to use and it would be something to adjust to your local meta. I just feel it could be useful in the right hands. Even if you've finished killing everything important, 12 shots at Str 4 will always generate a few wounds on infantry,

 

Yea it is also a fair chunk of WC and that you wouldn't get much else per psychic phase but we can try and make something work. Could just use accordingly however.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The biggest problem with the psilencer still, is that you need them to fail saves for it to do anything. You do get a lot of shots (and 'Prescience' is easily accessed), but S4 is a limiter to how many wounds you can expect to do. Once you've caused a few wounds, you need them to fail a save. Granted, they can't FNP the wound (as it causes Instant Death), but 2+ and even 3+ saves will shrug it off a lot of the time. 

[BloodTzar]

How about full sq. of purifiers with x4 flamers coming down T1 trough that formation (possibly combat squading) bringing down true BBQ power for those squishy units in cover... moreover giving u hand full of WC's while (C-sq-ed)

 

I can see puries to be the best place to camp with psi-lencers x 4 

[Madmaardigan]

Brovius, does the dreadknight armor still count as terminator armor as it was in 5th ed?

 

Nvm, monstrous creature gives the NDK relentless on its own I forgot, I just havnt seen it pointed out really but the concentrated heavy Psycannon shot, will now give us 6 shots from the dread instead of rolling the dice on the blast which I think is pretty bonkers

[Exile Noctis]

The biggest problem with the psilencer still, is that you need them to fail saves for it to do anything. You do get a lot of shots (and 'Prescience' is easily accessed), but S4 is a limiter to how many wounds you can expect to do. Once you've caused a few wounds, you need them to fail a save. Granted, they can't FNP the wound (as it causes Instant Death), but 2+ and even 3+ saves will shrug it off a lot of the time.

Depends if misfortune is up or not but I do see your point.

 

Mind you I feel strongly about that if I am going to include 3 NDKs in my list that one should have a Psilencer just to see if it actually makes its worth.

 

Mad,they have a shield now for their 5++ I think.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

How about full sq. of purifiers with x4 flamers coming down T1 trough that formation (possibly combat squading) bringing down true BBQ power for those squishy units in cover... moreover giving u hand full of WC's while (C-sq-ed)

 

Purifiers do not have Deepstrike, and thus cannot do that. Purifiers are far better spamming psycannon in the mid-field, like always. 

I can see puries to be the best place to camp with psi-lencers x 4 

 

 

But psilencers are still terrible. Storm bolter that (provided they don't block your 'force' activation, which you only get one shot at) maybe insta-gibs multi-wound stuff. Most MC's pack a 3+ armour save these days and high Toughness, so good luck getting any wounds through. 

Nvm, monstrous creature gives the NDK relentless on its own I forgot, I just havnt seen it pointed out really but the concentrated heavy Psycannon shot, will now give us 6 shots from the dread instead of rolling the dice on the blast which I think is pretty bonkers 

 

It was needed though. Blast mode psycannon just doesn't impress, whereas multiple shots is far better (as you can kill tanks with him now, and with a teleporter you can flank easily). 

Depends if misfortune is up or not but I do see your point.

 

You're relying on too many 'what ifs' for the strategy to be viable;

Firstly, you need to be in range with your psilencer unit

Secondly, you need to be stationary (except on TDA or Dreadknights)

Thirdly, you need to sucessfuly get 'force' off on the unit using the psilencer, as well as get 'misfortune' rolled as a power and get it on the target unit without getting dispelled

Finally, you need the psilencer to actually get a wound past the target's saves, in order to insta-gib. Against Daemons, with our preferred enemy re-rolls, this isn't as onerous, but against everything else its very unlikely. 

Mad,they have a shield now for their 5++ I think. 

 

 

'Sanctuary' was an excellent choice on DK's. 'Hammerhand' is never used (especially not now), so they did a swap and now we can turn on 4+ invuls very easily. I would've preferred 4+ invul base and then cast 'Sanctuary' to go to 3+ invul, but I guess we can't all have Riptides ;)

[Valerian]

I'll be redoing my ages old Grey Knights FanDex in the very near future.  I'm also crafting (in my mind for now) a letter that I intend to send in to detail how badly the Design Studio missed the boat on this codex.  There is a lot of good to it - several things were changed in a way that I definitely approve of; however, just as many things were either not addressed that needed to be, or were made worse when they didn't need to be.  I encourage all of you to write in to make your dissapointment known.  Of course, I recommend well thought out and logical arguments be presented, vice just griping and venting.

 

Best,

 

V

[Gentlemanloser]

Val, letters do nothing.  I took part in the Inquisitorial day many years ago.  Jarvis didn't even acknowledge it in his WD column, let alone write back to anyone.

 

The only thing the studio will take note of is if the dex (and minis) just don't sell.

 

I'd urge players to not write in, but to not purchase the new 'dex/boxes instead.

[lt051]

Val, letters do nothing. I took part in the Inquisitorial day many years ago. Jarvis didn't even acknowledge it in his WD column, let alone write back to anyone.

 

The only thing the studio will take note of is if the dex (and minis) just don't sell.

 

I'd urge players to not write in, but to not purchase the new 'dex/boxes instead.

Ask any SoB player how that worked out :/

[Gentlemanloser]

I think a smae difference is that 5th ed GK sold very well.  Far better than the SoB (sadly).

 

So GK not selling this time round would be indicative of a bad release, not disinterest by the playerbase.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Eh, on balance I say we came out okay. Grandmasters, Librarians, Purifiers, Dreadknights and Interceptors all remain strong choices, and each of them either dropped in points or had substantial changes to their wargear and rules. Terminators are playable now, although the AP2 heavy environment we live in kinda keeps them on the shelf still (full marks to GW for making them cheaper though, falchions are the go-to nemesis weapon now). Dedicated Land Raiders finally, and the meta ha swung far enough that we might even do it now. 

 

The real disappointments are the vehicles and the also-rans of last edition. Strikes are so gimped (they actually have gone up in price), and we're now forced to take them to fill Troops slots, unless you can shell out for Terminators (who are still twice as expensive once you factor in upgrades on both). Purgators get...Night Vision? I mean, at least Skyfire might've given them some kinda of viability...but no, Night Vision. Losing Psychic Pilot on everything is silly and is even more of a backwards step than the FAQ we had prior to this...oh except PsyDreads, who lost psybolts and Reinforced Aegis, and this have zero reason to exist now...yay. Bro Champs gained a wound and some cool rules in challenges...but they went up to Brother-Captain price yet do nothing for the army in terms of psychic support. Crowe is finally an IC, but his price hike and losing Rending...what is the point? Stern doesn't teamkill anymore, but there is still little reason to take him unless you fight Daemons. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Grandmasters lost everything mate.  Their BS6.  TGS.  There's very little point to their upgrade now.

 

Purifiers are more expensive, and their Psycannons spam (which is arguably what they are best at, you want a CC unit, take GKT) has been nerfed.

 

The only real benefits we got were cheaper Librarians, Cheaper (by 2 points) Interceptors who can now actually take Incinerators.  And NDKs.

 

And that is what everyone will build their lists around.

 

Everyone.

[Quozzo]

The biggest problem with the psilencer still, is that you need them to fail saves for it to do anything.

Of course you do, that's how storm bolters, psycannons, incinerators, and psilencers work. Unless of course you're hoping for that lucky 6 on the psycannons.

 

 

Depends if misfortune is up or not but I do see your point.

You're relying on too many 'what ifs' for the strategy to be viable;

Firstly, you need to be in range with your psilencer unit

Secondly, you need to be stationary (except on TDA or Dreadknights)

Thirdly, you need to sucessfuly get 'force' off on the unit using the psilencer, as well as get 'misfortune' rolled as a power and get it on the target unit without getting dispelled

Finally, you need the psilencer to actually get a wound past the target's saves, in order to insta-gib. Against Daemons, with our preferred enemy re-rolls, this isn't as onerous, but against everything else its very unlikely.

 

#1 and #2 is how heavy weapons work, unless you're going to be shooting storm bolter which have the same strength and thus have the same limitations.

#3 We all talk about successfully activating powers, because if you really want it activated we have the luxury of throwing down more dice than any other faction. No power is a given but if it doest activate then you have the chance of instant-killing him before you even charge and try to instant kill him again. A pre-emptive strike is not without risk (it's called strategy. Your previous post i quoted insinuates that psilencers should be AP2 at least.)

#4 It's not very unlikely, in fact it's very likely. I've not done the math-hammer but someone shared it in another topic.

[lt051]

Strike and our vehicles are the only things that really came out worse than they were a week ago IMO. We did lose ALOT of depth in this codex, not even taking into account ][ being stripped. Balance wise though, we came out better than I anticipated, but I didn't have high hopes.

[Gentlemanloser]

Of course you do, that's how storm bolters, psycannons, incinerators, and psilencers work. Unless of course you're hoping for that lucky 6 on the psycannons.

 

Unless you face Xenos.  AP4, even AP5 makes them cry.  Sweet sweet tears.

 

AP- makes Orks laugh in your face.

 

 

 

Strike and our vehicles are the only things that really came out worse than they were a week ago IMO.

 

All PA GK got made worse by the Salvo change to Psycannons.  And the Halberd changes.  Armour save 3 Marines really required the higher initiative to live facing all the AP3+ CC weapons.

 

Now, S5/7 means little when you go on I4.