Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 ^This. I mean, we have no way to Skyfire except with Ravens. They gave Purgators NIGHT VISION. Our one reliable means of shooting other stuff to death (psycannons) has been hit with the nerf bat so hard its nearly impossible to field. 15pts on PA, 20 on TDA still. And Salvo. To be fair GL, we have synergy with our HQ's. Grandmasters and Librarians bring buffs and defensive tech to shield our overpriced infantry from dying Turn 1 to a Tau or IG gunline list. Purifiers also have synergy, as they replace Purgators, generate double the warp charges of a normal Knight unit, are the only unit with Fearless, and have the only horde clearance psychic power (Cleansing Flame), which incidentally is also good against FMC's (novas hit automatically, so Snap Shots is never an issue ;) ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Purifiers are good, but what unit/s do they synergies with? Like, Interceptors are great, but no other (infantry) unit in the damn Codex can get access to a PT. GM and Libbies, you can't plan for the Synergy, becuase the power rolls are random. You might roll Invisibility and WIN or not and provide no synergy to any unit. Same with Warlord Traits. Guaranteed Hatred/Stubborn does not excite me. Where are our Force Multipliers? Improved Aegis. Herald of Titan? Hell, our Techmarines are never going to use Blessing of the Omniscia. And don't provide grenade Caddies. We have stand alone units. Some good, some meh some craptastic. But *none* of them snyergise together to provide anything larger then the individual parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Like, Interceptors are great, but no other (infantry) unit in the damn Codex can get access to a PT. Interceptors support Dreadknights, and put teleport homers in the enemy line for Turn 2 Deepstrike units (like Terminators). There is synergy there arguably. GM and Libbies, you can't plan for the Synergy, becuase the power rolls are random. You might roll Invisibility and WIN or not and provide no synergy to any unit. Same with Warlord Traits. Telepathy only has two meh powers (Hallucination is pretty bad and Mental Fortitude is never used), so you'll usually roll the good ones. Divination has only one cornercase power (Sriers gaze, which is absurdly good for our Nemesis Strikeforce). They do have synergy in the psychic support they offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 RD, that's like saying Dev's support gunlines. Sure they do. But camping 24", or castling isn't really a snyergy. It's just using all your units at the same range. GK arguably have the greatest synergies of all armies, as they all shoot at 24" range. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Well, RD has a point. A list like this: -Libby (goes with termies #1) -Termies (Deep strike) -Termies (Deep strike) -Interceptor (w/ teleport homers shunt turn 1) -Interceptor (w/ teleport homers shunt turn 1) -NDK (shunt turn 1) -NDK (shunt turn 1) has a good synergy. But it's expensive and low model count. So it'll die horribly to an opponent with lots of AP2. After a few games, that one-trick will get boring and obvious so your opponents will prepare for it. With divination on the libby, you can almost have AA shooting on the 2 psycannons of his termi squad. edit: Libby+termi squad #1 could be replaced by Draigo+termi squad #1 for first turn gating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiveFleetKelari Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I should be getting a game in tomorrow. My list will be comprised of some combination of the following Grandmaster Brotherhood-Champion (sub-optimal, I know, but I just finished painting him) 10 Purifiers Rhino/Razorback 15 Terminators 5 - 10 Interceptors Stormraven Dreadknight I'll post my actual list, a battle report (if I can remember to do it), and my thoughts on these units in a separate thread sometime this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDaley60 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 They turned the fluff into a pretty unique adavantage for us. If fluff made for interesting games we won, then all we'd need to field was Draigo. Sadly, the fluff doesn't even keep us warm at night any more, nor look attractive on our mantlepiece. I see no advantage that fluff brings to anything. Turn 1 DS sounds pretty fluffy to me. If flyers are a problem then take an Icarus Quad gun or a detachment of something that can take care of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 The teleporting turn one is a relatively huge addition to our rule set, especially since strikes can ds.... Or that would be the case if they weren't nerfed into the ground directly and through terminator points decrease. Arguably despite our savings the basic gk army will have less models on the table in 7e than we did in 5e/6e simply because PA seems much less viable given what we have. Most lists that seem like they will carry us through this edition are teleporting alpha strike or shunting alpha strike. Maybe water warrior midfield control but that's iffy with salvo and no testing. All of our fluff doesn't give our builds any more depth, 5e hid this very well with grand strategy and making competition for slots termi/strike, paladins/purify (somewhat) knights/noughts It looks like we have entered into tyranid territory as far as monobuild goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casb1965 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 They turned the fluff into a pretty unique adavantage for us. If fluff made for interesting games we won, then all we'd need to field was Draigo. Sadly, the fluff doesn't even keep us warm at night any more, nor look attractive on our mantlepiece. I see no advantage that fluff brings to anything. Turn 1 DS sounds pretty fluffy to me. If flyers are a problem then take an Icarus Quad gun or a detachment of something that can take care of it. 2 Icarus Quad Gun Vengeance Weapons batteries for 150pts. 2 x 96" Str 9 AP2, Heavy 2, Interceptor, Skyfire, Twin-linked. All for the price of a Strike Squad. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I was going to send in my Rhino and Razorback, along with two Dreadnoughts to my commission painter for a phase 2 of a big project I have going for updating my Grey Knights, but now I'm thinking that I shouldn't bother. I can't imagine having a list with any of these in it, given the new codex. Can anybody out there think of how any of these would ever be worth taking now? Instead, I'll be sending in a second Dreadknight; I can't think of any situation where I'm not going to want to run at least two of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Turn 1 DS sounds pretty fluffy to me. Drop Pods. Well, RD has a point. A list like this: -Libby (goes with termies #1) -Termies (Deep strike) -Termies (Deep strike) -Interceptor (w/ teleport homers shunt turn 1) -Interceptor (w/ teleport homers shunt turn 1) -NDK (shunt turn 1) -NDK (shunt turn 1) has a good synergy. Boreas, how close is that to like the first list I posted? It's like the *only* synergy the entire Codex has. I've built that list. Nothing else to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifter155 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Drop pods have to be paid for, points wise and monetarily. They are more reliable yes, but not fluffy for GK. It might not be completely optimal but if every army was the same it would be quite boring. Teleporting in on turn one and running and shooting at the same time is still better than many units do. shunt, port and run/shoot sounds hilariously fun, if one dimensional. I would imagine it might catch people out a few times. I know the latest codex is a power break from the old one but the last time I played GK properly was in 4th edition. Compared to that it seems heavenly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I know the latest codex is a power break from the old one but the last time I played GK properly was in 4th edition. Compared to that it seems heavenly... Game has moved on. It now has Riptides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Well, the new culexus rules synergise with us (see official thread in general rumors). The Speculum is: Animus Speculum (18", s5 ap1 assault x. X = combined mastery level within 12" + you can add dice from your own pool that you generate from models outside of 12" or the d6 free ones) So a ML 3 libby with a termi squad + 6 warp charges gives him assault 10 St5 Ap1!? If Life Drain (6 to wound cause instant death) really apply to this weapon, the psylencer is but a pea shooter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Make sure he's close to some combat squads of Purifiers to see that number go through the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Wow assassins are pretty awesome now, not just vindicare. Infiltrating eversor is nice. Plus new culexus could be boss as stated above now that you can burn warp charges into it Good thing I still have all 4 :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 They turned the fluff into a pretty unique adavantage for us. If fluff made for interesting games we won, then all we'd need to field was Draigo. Sadly, the fluff doesn't even keep us warm at night any more, nor look attractive on our mantlepiece. I see no advantage that fluff brings to anything. Turn 1 DS sounds pretty fluffy to me. If flyers are a problem then take an Icarus Quad gun or a detachment of something that can take care of it. 2 Icarus Quad Gun Vengeance Weapons batteries for 150pts. 2 x 96" Str 9 AP2, Heavy 2, Interceptor, Skyfire, Twin-linked. All for the price of a Strike Squad. don't forget that they must fire at the closest model, flyer or not... The targeting rule to choose flyers over other targets is only on the Firestorm Redoubt, not on the quad icharus lascannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I'm loving the new fluff for Purifiers (page 11 and 14); much improved! Now I don't hate them, and they finally make sense :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Also the Paladins are more like a veteran 'First Company' under the leadership of the High Paladin, rather than bodyguards for Grand Masters (although they can certainly do that, if dispatched to support a Brotherhood). Page 15 is awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Wow assassins are pretty awesome now, not just vindicare. Infiltrating eversor is nice. Plus new culexus could be boss as stated above now that you can burn warp charges into it Good thing I still have all 4 :D They still in the codex then?? Havent picked up the codex yet... How are our relics standing up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lt051 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 No assassins are in a dataslate that is available as of now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsev Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ah OK then, so grey knights really went 'pure' then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Just went thru the rule book and have to say, the codex ninja's got ahold of it. Everything that was stated earlier in this topic and a few other things have now been realized. So, no more psychic vehicles, all nemesis weapons, er, still good but not as, no more psybolt but now the psylincer is worth taking, dread knights are the go to but land raiders are DT's. Points drops all over but some hikes. Gonna take a few games but I think the army is still useable, at least it better be. The bonus for me is it is a pure dex now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnImA8 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think the primary way in which we benefited here is that the strain on our FoC has been alleviated. We no longer have several options contending for the same spots: we can have Dreadnoughts in the Elites providing covering fire for Dreadknights in our Heavy Support, which can act as a vanguard for Dedicated Land Raiders filled with Terminators. Is that the best list? I don't know. Did all of those units aside from the Dreadknights take a nerf? Yea, definitely. But it is still a plus side, and one I will enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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