++ The Dark Council - A Word Bearers Community ++

[ThatOneMarshal]

I think one major benefit that you guys have over many other legions, and something  I wish we Night Lords got, was access to Marks. Only you guys and the Black legion have access and losing cult troops isn't all that bad. Except for plague marines their all kinda bad now, and you can just ally them in. I do think that you guys are competitive but lose your guys (flavor) souls for it. Kind of fitting I guess since you guys deal with the devils often   

[tikhunt]

I suppose our cultist aren't different enough to warrant rules when compared to most legions. I'm still of the opinion that Helcult is the most efficient way of using cultists and putting a sorc in both units is actually a good idea.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Cultists do have a whole army list, that's basically the Renegades&Heretics list. Helcult isn't bad, but I think I'd prefer LoD so I have a chance to recycle dead units. 

[totgeboren]

Yeah, definitely a disappointment for us/my WB guys, but a rather easy workaround if you don't want to annoy your opponent with summoning spam is to just use the BL rules.

If your WB lord pledges allegiance to Abaddon they become BL anyway so.

 

I sort of view the WB rules as a specialist formation available to the WB.

I mean, the big Detachment gives almost nothing so you can easily use a CAD and still get the main quirks, which is nice I guess.

Our army detachment gives Dark crusader and 8-fold path, which is Crusader for all infantry, and what seems to be a nerfed version of Path to Glory.

Picking WB and using the Black Crusade detachment instead gives Path to Glory.

WB and CAD gives flexibility, ObSec and the ability to use FW stuff (which is a major factor for me at least).

 

If you go for BL you get Hatred on everything in exchange for not having better summoning, which is a non-issue if you are trying to avoid summoning.

Picking the BL Detachment also gives Crusader, but Fear on top of that. No 8-fold path though, but you get to try and bring in Reserves on turn 1. This is pretty big for me since I use Dreadclaws.

 

Dunno, I honestly think the BL rules are fine to use from a background pow, since the BL are not a genetic legacy, but an affiliation. Any WB host could become BL.

And it's not all that fun to run around without toys when all our brother legions get cool stuff.

 

I wonder if a R&H Endless Host supported by a WB CAD, or a WB Cyclopean Cabal would work? Annoying that the Warlord needs to be from R&H, but a few WB summoning Sorcs in an Endless Host would be really neat.

Edited December 6, 2016 by totgeboren

[jumai]

There's also the multiple detachments option.  A summoning wing of 2x sorcerer, 2x cultists is a valid CAD by itself, and taking them as such gives both units objsec in return giving up crusader.  Having a CAD secondary alongside your main force decurion also gives convenient single vehicle access (and forgeworld I suppose).

[Canadian_F_H]

Yeah... renegades and heretics seams to be where it's at for all your cultist needs...

 

Which I was planning anyways... just means the hard core I intended for the army being the WB MEQ and teq units pushing the renegades and heretics cultists is going to be underwhelming...

Edited December 6, 2016 by Canadian_F_H

[totgeboren]

Hmmm, according to 1d4chan the Crozius relic has got Ap3, which makes it a lot more appealing I think. A 'powersword' with +2 S and Concussive is pretty neat I think. I will definitely be using that one, and against Imperials every hit is basically in auto-wound due to Preferred Enemy and +2 S.

You can also give it to a dude joining a unit of plasma-Chosen to get Preferred Enemy on their plasmaguns, making them massively more dangerous (though sad that it only works vs the Imperium).

 

I'm coming around to the WB rules more and more. I mean, no matter how you look at it, we are in a better spot than before.

[jumai]

For whoever asked for inspiration:

 

Not a summoner, but seeing the rules for the Cursed Crozius (ap3 power maul, grants Preferred Enemy: Armies of Imperium) made me pretty happy; this is Vel Saath, First Acolyte of the 109th host XVII, and my very favorite model.  In ancient times he was the subject of a WIP thread here at bolter and chainsword.

 

 

 

 

 

Remember that a model with Preferred Enemy grants it to his whole squad, and that it works on shooting as well.  Not only would putting this guy in a Raptor Talon give plasma drop Raptors some teeth on the charge, he'd help them not whiff and re-roll away Gets Hot.  Feels good man.

(check 1d4chan for relic rules and stuff.  not everything's up there but it's expanding)

Edited December 6, 2016 by jumai

[Canadian_F_H]

Wow. That guy looks like he NEEDS a 32mm base!

 

Yeah. I'm definitly going to do something with my word bearers... tho I might scale it down (temporarily) from my original plans (originally about a hundred marines)

 

So a small core of WB, and small core of IW, then a good chunk of support from renegades and heretics... something with cult swarms for the WB and some thing with some artillery for the IW.

[jumai]

Wow. That guy looks like he NEEDS a 32mm base!

 

He's actually really stable; he's based on an old pewter model (probably got lead poisoning filing that aquila off the shoulder pad), but the wings are plastic and the rocks at the bottom are pretty heavy.

 

Gamewise he could use it, though.  There are a lot of angles where you nothing really fits base to base.  I should probably do that.

[MaliGn]

Hmmm, according to 1d4chan the Crozius relic has got Ap3, which makes it a lot more appealing I think. A 'powersword' with +2 S and Concussive is pretty neat I think. I will definitely be using that one, and against Imperials every hit is basically in auto-wound due to Preferred Enemy and +2 S.

You can also give it to a dude joining a unit of plasma-Chosen to get Preferred Enemy on their plasmaguns, making them massively more dangerous (though sad that it only works vs the Imperium).

 

I'm coming around to the WB rules more and more. I mean, no matter how you look at it, we are in a better spot than before.

Do we know if we can give the crozius to a lord, or is it dark apostle only? Edited December 7, 2016 by MaliGn

[totgeboren]

Do we know if we can give the crozius to a lord, or is it dark apostle only?

It never said anything about DA only, and considering Veterannoob mentioned 'Psykers only' (which could be 'Sorcerers only' I supposed) for our summoning relics I think he would have said DA only if that was the case.

 

Heh, I tried, for fun to roll some summoning die, assuming I had 2 lvl 1 Sorcerers with familiars.

 

Harnessing on a 3+ while rolling only 4 die with reroll means you stand a really good chance of both getting the summons off, but also to not get perils. Avoiding a double while having 3 of the 4 die 3+ isn't all that impossible, and you can often perils 2-3 times before you die. Passing a summon with 3 die isn't impossile either (though difficult), so even if you roll a 1 for warp charge all is not lost.

My test-rolls gave me 6 summoned units over just 3 turns, without either of the Sorcerers dying from perils! Thats pretty insane for 150 pts, being up ~500 pts halfway through turn 3 (if you count the 150 pts sorcerers as starting 150 'down')!

 

Dunno, super gimmicky and anyone can just take a Cabal of 3 Sorcerers, say they are WB and get the same rules, on top of getting legion rules for all their marines. But still, that's our thing now, and we do it well!

Edited December 7, 2016 by totgeboren

[tikhunt]

I'm 99% sure that the formations from the Black Legion supplement are locked unto being Black Legion only, dame as Crimson Slaughter

[Lord Asvaldir]

I thought so to, which was why I haven't considered using cabal. That still leaves our decurion as a way to unlock using a bunch of sorcerers and still having a character slot for a chaos lord. 

[totgeboren]

Oh, misremembered that formation as being in the TH supplement, good call.

 

I'm rather curious about the exact wording of 8-fold path. Hopefully it stacks with Favoured Scions at least, like Path to Glory.

 

I'll see if I can squeeze in a Warband+LatD+Daemon engine formation with 2 cheap summoners. I suspect all the characters will eat up too many points though, Lord, DA, Warpsmith and 2 sorcerers on that.

The helcult is probably better than the LatD formation if you want cultists I guess.

Edited December 7, 2016 by totgeboren

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

Looks like our prayers for leaks have been answered Found these on 4Chan (they are all up there now in the 40k General Thread if anyone cares.

I actually really quite like these rules. Better than we had before and very fluffy. Big fan of the Anthony Reynolds references too like Host and Coryphaus.

[totgeboren]

Well, it's nice to get the see the rules properly.

So, good stuff?
The WT are ok, and the Relics are reasonably priced. Also nice that getting Zealot on your Warlord gives you super-zealot if he already has it. Note that he has the zealot rule if say a Dark Aapostle happens to stand nearby....
The Accursed Crozius opens up some plasma-shenanigans vs Imperials, which is nice.
Dark Apostles are available as a Lord of the Legion with is nice for fluff reasons.

Bad stuff that could have been good.
Unless Chaos Warband has been changed, The Eight-fold Path doesn't seem to trigger Favoured Scions when Path to glory does. This is a big deal and makes me sad.
Profane Zeal should definitely have been 12", just to make Dark Apostles a serious consideration. The aura is waaay too small to make a difference.

The rest, well I think it has been said.

Also saw the background page for WB. Interestingly enough they simply copy-pasted the background from their Index Astartes article, including "He revelled in the different aspects of each of the dark powers, dedicating himself to Chaos in its purest form, as Chaos Undivided, and he quickly lead the Word Bearers along the same path."

 

So it seems like they kept Chaos Undivided after all. Or, they can't be lazy enough that they didn't bother to read the text they copy-pasted?

Edited December 7, 2016 by totgeboren

[Lord Asvaldir]

It's a real shame eight fold path only works once, can't super buff up a chaos lord because of that. 

[Canadian_F_H]

Yeah. It's a but underwhelming compared to fearless, relentless, fear, stealth... heck... the black legion seams more zealous than the word bearers by the look of it.

[Castellan Cato]

I'm 99% sure that the formations from the Black Legion supplement are locked unto being Black Legion only, dame as Crimson Slaughter

You are 100% right, but only for now. The cabal is in this book. When we know that they didn't limit the decurions to being only for one legion, I don't see why they would bother with one formation to make it specific. So if that's true, we can take it with WB tactics, but not as part of our decurion.

 

I have my eyes peeled for a picture of that formation from this book to be sure though.

[Apostle of the 30th Host]

So I have a question about the Eight-Fold Path Special Rule, that gives any Character a single free roll on the Chaos Boon Table...

 

As it applies to any character in the Detachment (not just ones with VotLW), does that mean that if you too a Helforged Warpack as your Aux Choice, the Warpack Alpha, who becomes a Character, gets to roll on the Boon Table once (now granted, a lot of the results might be useless, but equally you could get extra attacks, shrouded, hatred, +1 WS or become a Daemon Prince)? I see no reason why not, and if you have no more HQ's left who can it might be worth it in case he turns into a Daemon Prince or something.

[totgeboren]

Seems like it. Also, while on that track, the Dark Apostles Zealot aura applies to all friendly "Word Bearer units within 6"", so you can get your Helbrutes and Maulerfiends all riled up!

Hmmm... the leader of a Helbrute Murderpack (5 Helbrutes) could then both roll for a gift and the whole squad could get Zealot if you have a DA close by. A Knight taken from a CAD that is declared to be WB can also get Zealot this way. Neat.

Edited December 7, 2016 by totgeboren

[Lord Asvaldir]

In theory that does sound really nice, however considering the Dark Apostle can't take a bike or jump pack, it would be near impossible for him to keep up with maulerfiends. Only way I can think of that working is having an apostle drop in a dreadclaw with some chosen, and even then it might be hard to keep him within the limited 6" range. If only it was twice that..

[totgeboren]

Now I might be wrong, but is there something that prevents his aura from working when he is in a vehicle? Hatred on Maulerfiends with meltacutters could make a big difference.

 

*EDIT*

Had a look at the FAQ, auras don't work from within vehicles unless their rules specifically state they do. So no shouting Dark Apostle in a metal bawks!

Edited December 8, 2016 by totgeboren

[jumai]

 

 

So slapping a 10pt Tome on one of your psykers isn't much to ask for the D3 Conjuration objective, but outside of warlord trait fishing you pretty much need to take an Apostle to get access to the charge-your-zealots point.  So he's not just a big tax on one of our main special rules, passing on him punishes you with lost VP.  That's... pretty lame.  

 

So what can we actually do with that guy?  He can't have a bike, a mount, or jump pack.  Putting him in a rhino turns off his zealot bubble (correct?).  He can't buy a normal weapon, nor can his stat line properly utilize a relic weapon, so he's basically stuck with his power maul.  While half of his aura buff is for assault, that half doesn't actually do anything versus half the armies in the game.

So to me it feels like he has to be on foot, not rushing into combat, and getting mileage from the Fearless half of his aura for at least several turns of the game.  All I've got for that though is slap a Burning Brand on him and stand in the midfield, shooting torrents and playing Go To Ground games with the bubble.  For 135pts, I'm not sure I'm convinced...

 

Any other ideas out there?  Does Beseech have meaningful applications?

 

 

 

The good news is you don't need to use summons for Feed The Daemon, or even Princes.  Picking it up with your Maulerfiends or Possessed or something shouldn't be a big struggle.

 

 

The last two really, really want you to have a Warband though (which is fine).  Stealing an objective with turbo-boost using objsec bikes is a way less daunting challenge than clearing all the models off an enemy-held marker, and the double boon rolls from Favored Scions mean killing one squad leader is enough to reach D3 VP on the last one (assuming you're running a Grand Host or Black Crusade).

 

 

Three tactical objectives worth D3 or better, two of which are pretty easy to get... hey it's something.  Getting ahead via VP income could definitely win some games.