++ The Dark Council - A Word Bearers Community ++

[Backslide]

Really disappointed with the grand host...

 

Think it will be a black crusade for me for a while yet

 

Or a cad with a lost and the dammed

[Plaguecaster]

Hey I just thought of something slightly hilarious. Take a hellforged formations with maulerfiends maybe even a defiler and make the Alpha which is a character your warlord and if lucky you roll Latent Powers as your trait you now have a lvl psyker daemon engine with a 4+ inv save and can summon daemons even more easier than a sorcerer since he is a daemon. Probably not the smartest idea especially with a easily destroyed daemon engine your warlord but it is funny psyker daemon engines or even hellbrutes :D Edited December 8, 2016 by teutonicavenger

[totgeboren]

Can't remember who made it, but I saw a Defiler with a Warshrine on top of it, having a Dark Apostle shouting obscenities from the shrine (that's what I imagine them like anyway, tourettes guys the lot of them!)

 

It would work awesome as a warlord if you managed to get that +1 psyker level. :)

Of course, what makes summoning viable for us is the Spell Familiar, so it wouldn't be powerful in that sense, but pretty cool as a goof.

[MaliGn]

I know that you wouldn't be able to run it in a tournament setting, but if you made a cool looking converted terminator/biker/jump pack apostle and paid the appropriate points cost for it that a lord would pay, I'd let you field it. As I'm sure would a great many casual gamers as it hardly "breaks the game". Should it be in the book? Of course it should, are we sensible enough to work out how the rules would look if it was in the book? I hope so.

[totgeboren]

So you think this would be ok (still PIP, not done with the black armor highlights!)?

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/totgeboren40/Daemons/DSC_0230.jpg

 

I actually think I could run him as a my Lord with a Accursed Crozius and MoT. The WT can give him some Dark Apostly ability, and Favoured Scions also makes him feel a bit more like an apostle.

But yeah, that the DA can't get TDA/bike/jump pack is pretty stupid, especially since Sorcerers can, and loyalist Chaplains can.

[Zectz]

Really nice model there totgeboren!

 

Just from some quick thinking it seems like one of the better uses of the The Cursed Crozius is just like you've modeled on a terminator lord - deep striking with a squad of Combi plasma/Melta as you prefer to spread that sweet preferred enemy. The terminator lord also has good synergy with the cursed Crozius as you can have a power fist/axe along side to give you the choice between AP3 at initiative or AP2 unwieldy.

[totgeboren]

Thanks!

A neat thing I noticed now it that the Scripts of Erebus isn't 'psyker only', and you can use it in your opponents turn.

So you can use it to try and block a key power one turn (Invisibility and similar) instead of trying to get an extra unit of daemons.

Or, if you don't even have a Psyker, you can still make use of it as a sort of dispel scroll. Nice that they made it a bit more all-round like that.

Edited December 8, 2016 by totgeboren

[Lord Asvaldir]

That's good to hear, little more use from that item then. 

 

Honestly given dark apostles have 0 mobility, I just can't see myself using them that often. Best use I can think of is throwing one in a dreadclaw with a bunch of chosen. Otherwise I'll stick to having a daemon summoning sorc represent my dark apostle. 

[MaliGn]

So you think this would be ok (still PIP, not done with the black armor highlights!)? :)http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/totgeboren40/Daemons/DSC_0230.jpgI actually think I could run him as a my Lord with a Accursed Crozius and MoT. The WT can give him some Dark Apostly ability, and Favoured Scions also makes him feel a bit more like an apostle.But yeah, that the DA can't get TDA/bike/jump pack is pretty stupid, especially since Sorcerers can, and loyalist Chaplains can.

I'd totally let you run him as whatever the hell you figured he was, sorcerer, lord, apostle with termie armour. Rule of cool I reckon. This is why I am planning to build an ectoplasma predator. It would look cool, be clear what it was and would hardly break the game. My plan would be along the lines of:

1. Attend gaming venue

2. Meet potential opponent

3. Mention to said potential opponent "hey I made this cool conversion, it looks like this, sure there's no official rules for it, but I reckon we could do it like this, is that OK with you?" Or "do you mind helping me play test it?"

4. Hope he agrees, take any feedback on board.

5. Have some fun with my toys.

 

Obviously we all play in very different places and with different people, and all we have in common is the ruleset we are given, but at the end of the day we all like the game, the setting and our armies, so we should try; especially in casual games to accommodate each others expressions of the hobby even if "it's not in the rules" it is because of rule one.

[Excessus]

IA13 has a plasma predator. ;)

[totgeboren]

I'd totally let you run him as whatever the hell you figured he was, sorcerer, lord, apostle with termie armour. Rule of cool I reckon. This is why I am planning to build an ectoplasma predator. It would look cool, be clear what it was and would hardly break the game. My plan would be along the lines of:

1. Attend gaming venue

2. Meet potential opponent

3. Mention to said potential opponent "hey I made this cool conversion, it looks like this, sure there's no official rules for it, but I reckon we could do it like this, is that OK with you?" Or "do you mind helping me play test it?"

4. Hope he agrees, take any feedback on board.

5. Have some fun with my toys.

 

Obviously we all play in very different places and with different people, and all we have in common is the ruleset we are given, but at the end of the day we all like the game, the setting and our armies, so we should try; especially in casual games to accommodate each others expressions of the hobby even if "it's not in the rules" it is because of rule one.

I don't think I would bring anything requiring custom rules to a pickup game. I would even hesitate to not have everything both painted and totally WYSIWYG. Perhaps it different where I live, but just breaking WYSIWYG if you don't know each other beforhand and know it's ok would be considered a bit rude. So custom rules for a pickup game is something I would never do tbh.

But yeah, you are right all this is about is having fun with our toys. People should perhaps relax a bit.

Though custom rules, if badly thought through can definitly reduce the fun the other side gets.

 

But back to our WB. Anyone knows if the Helforged Warpack is identical to the TH version? I assume so since they have the same name?

Anyway, I think I will finally build my Chaplain Dreadnought! Multimelta, Thunderhammer (big Crozius), 4++ and Character. He will be my Warmonger! The other Daemon engines will be his pets.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'm like 90% sure it's the same formation. The bonuses for maulerfiends are nice, I usually end up using deamonforge every turn I assault, but I just can't justify taking the warpsmith. I think I'd rather use a cheap CAD alongside a chaos warband, fill out the CAD with cultists, bunch of maulerfiends and a sorc to lead it, save a whole bunch of pts on buying a warpsmith/dark apostle to unlock those two units. Leaves more points for those sorcerers. 

[totgeboren]

I'm like 90% sure it's the same formation. The bonuses for maulerfiends are nice, I usually end up using deamonforge every turn I assault, but I just can't justify taking the warpsmith. I think I'd rather use a cheap CAD alongside a chaos warband, fill out the CAD with cultists, bunch of maulerfiends and a sorc to lead it, save a whole bunch of pts on buying a warpsmith/dark apostle to unlock those two units. Leaves more points for those sorcerers.

Yeah a CAD is likely a better choice in most cases, though is this specific case I was after a character Dreadnought with a big maul and a 4++ save, to make a Chaplain Dread.

The Warpsmith is an issue though. Perhaps buying my Dread (for thematic reasons), then have a Forgefiend constantly Daemonforging, with the Warpsmith fixing it up and/or protecting the backfield. He could be part of a Havoc Squad, or just use one of the 2 compulsory CSM squads as a small unit to babysit him.

The Maulerfiend is always useful, so daemonforge if needed, otherwise just enjoy getting Rage if the Helbrute snuffs it.

 

Dunno, so many points into the shooty stuff (Warpsmith+Forgefiend) that doesn't shoot much. That's a big handicap.

 

Though, a Forgefiend with constant reroll to-wound and to penetrate armour does sound quite a bit better than the basic loadout. Whenever I remember to use it I always snuff the to-hit rolls. Getting a few more uses out of it would probably make a difference.

Edited December 9, 2016 by totgeboren

[Sete]

I dreamt about Argel Tal this night.

It was a glorious miniature.

Great black wings contrasting with his red armour, like floating in mid air with a 2 handed grip on the Aquila greatsword.

Only the only daemonic part was the wings really.

[jumai]

The Warpsmith is an issue though. Perhaps buying my Dread (for thematic reasons), then have a Forgefiend constantly Daemonforging, with the Warpsmith fixing it up and/or protecting the backfield. He could be part of a Havoc Squad, or just use one of the 2 compulsory CSM squads as a small unit to babysit him.The Maulerfiend is always useful, so daemonforge if needed, otherwise just enjoy getting Rage if the Helbrute snuffs it.Dunno, so many points into the shooty stuff (Warpsmith+Forgefiend) that doesn't shoot much. That's a big handicap.

These back line buffing HQs without much to do always strike me as potential Burning Brand carriers. For 30 points he can shoot a mini baleflamer instead of just standing around. Should be a big difference in impact relative to the price tag, no?

[Lord Asvaldir]

If you give your warpsmith the brand, you probably don't want him sitting around backfield repairing vehicles. Even with torrent you can't really stand around backfield with the brand. 

 

I always have the same problem with the forgefiend not hitting enough, 3 ectoplasma cannons might be worth a shot despite the short range. Really though I just prefer maulerfiends, you can never go wrong with taking those. 

[Backslide]

Have a 2k game on Monday going with a grand host with a warband, lost and the dammed 3 sorcerers and some spawn

 

Going tonsee what we can summon before heads explode

 

Playing vs bugs the narative means I may well be the attacker

[Lord Asvaldir]

Seems like a pretty balanced and fluffy Word Bearers force. The only problem is vehicles, it's very tough to fit them in at 2k when you want a full warband, LatD and a few sorcs. 

[tikhunt]

Let us know how it plays out, interested in seeing just how beneficial the 3+ to summon is on the tabletop.

[Backslide]

game I had the other night ended up being 2300 points, 4 lvl3 sorcerers makes for a lot of summoning... like alot.. 700 points after 3 turns

 

crusader was ok I guess, but I will go back to a black crusade for my next few games, partly because I have my regular admech opponent tommoro 

[tikhunt]

Did you take the Cabal?

[Lord Asvaldir]

Everyone seems to forget that technically Word Bearers can't take the cabal-it's a Black Legion only formation. 

 

Black Crusade detachment might be the way to go honestly, our Grand Warhost detachment doesn't offer a whole lot, since crusader is meh and the once per turn boon roll is worse than the the rule that the Black Crusade detachment has. 

[Charlo]

Everyone seems to forget that technically Word Bearers can't take the cabal-it's a Black Legion only formation. 

 

Nein! It's actually just a "Chaos Space Marine" formation. Nothing in the actual formation means you cannot just bring it with marked guys or unmarked :)

 

Only if it is a part of the Spear Tip does it need to be Black Legion.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Could have sworn it was a Black Legion formation..maybe just because it's part of the speartip formations I was confused. 

 

So for a summoning coven, what do we get out of the formation? It's still pretty easy to add a bunch of sorcerers into a Grand Warhost detachment, I'd see more use for a cabal if you're using a CAD. 

[totgeboren]

"Cyclopia Cabal. Restrictions: This is a Black Legion Formation."

 

From the BL supplement. Or did they change that somewhere?