Let's Talk Custodes

[Daemon2027]

I thought Alpharius was the one with the laser spear?

[LongGone]

What constitutes fighting strength for each Legion at that point in their history, though? The IV Legions' concept of optimal fighting strength might range from 1,000 to 8,000 at that point in history; while the XX might only have teams that total a hundred or so Legionnaires, yet this might be a perfect size for basic functionality for them considering their tactical doctrine.

 

The SF groups of the US military might not have the numbers of their regular Army counterparts, yet they are still considered to be at fighting strength.

Just to interject a little before we get back to the Custodes...

 

I think people are confusing the term fighting strength with the idea of viability as an effective fighting force. The two are related but are not necessarily interchangeable every single time.

 

You also need to take into account the intended size of said fighting force when measuring 'fighting strength' and viability. A squad of Marines (of the U.S. variety) is at fighting strength with it's three teams of four and a squad leader. An effective/viable squad however, does not equate to a viable platoon or company.

 

And now back to Custodes...

 

Note: I didn't quote heathens because I thought he made this mistake, but because I thought his post illustrated my point.

[Dono1979]

Excuse my lack of experience with the Custodes, I am basically a new HH fan, drawn back via the demise of the black templars and their 'rebirth' through the Imperial Fists Templars.

 

Are the Companions the iconic Custodes, the ones with the bolter halberds and conical helms?

 

As I have built/converted my entire Heresy force to be 1st Company Templars, I am pretty keen to look at the possibility of an allied detachment of Customes, the gold would work really well with the Black and yellow.

[Hyaenidae]

The Companions are the personal elite of the Emperor, 300 Custodes that never leave his side. How visually different they are, though, is not fully explained.

[GhostMalone]

All custodes should get digital weapons +1A and maybe extra on the charge and have fleet

[Slips]

Instead of all of them having Digi Weapons, maybe give them Counter Attack and/or Hammer of Wrath. Or couple one of those with Furious Charge.

 

I think giving them all fleet would make them SO GOOD that they'd probably become the power army, especially if they have any of the above special rules.

 

I agree that they kinda should be Legionnaires +1 but not to the point where they always trump them :P

[depthcharge12]

Instead of all of them having Digi Weapons, maybe give them Counter Attack and/or Hammer of Wrath. Or couple one of those with Furious Charge.

 

I think giving them all fleet would make them SO GOOD that they'd probably become the power army, especially if they have any of the above special rules.

 

I agree that they kinda should be Legionnaires +1 but not to the point where they always trump them :P

 

It's ok, they asked Graham McNeill on how to balance this issue.

 

 

Rule - "All World Eater Sargeants that declare a challenge to a Custodes gain instant death and rending to their attacks when not using a close combat weapon."

[GhostMalone]

WE get a special un armoured unit with power fisticuffs

[Slips]

Power Knuckles. Made of Brass. Its a thing now.

 

...Back to Custodes :P

[Hyaenidae]

Instead of all of them having Digi Weapons, maybe give them Counter Attack and/or Hammer of Wrath. Or couple one of those with Furious Charge.

I think giving them all fleet would make them SO GOOD that they'd probably become the power army, especially if they have any of the above special rules.

I agree that they kinda should be Legionnaires +1 but not to the point where they always trump them

Actually, I disagree on the last point. I think they should be Legionnaires +2, but should pay for that dearly in points cost and some rule that gimps them in open-field tactical conflict, a "Lions amongst Wolves" rule, if you will.

They should be monsterous, but rare. Each loos should be felt by their player, to the point that individual losses should actually make him/her physically wince.

[Slips]

Hmm, my line of reasoning was because I was aiming for Larger Sized squads, thus less individually powerful Custodes since they are described in 30k as Legio Custodes. So there are a fair few of them.

 

After giving it some thought, I think that yeah, your idea would work better since mine was just "they're better Veteran Squads..." Though I think they should go from 3-5(10?) for Squad Sizes if thats the case to capitalize on the fact that they're better Solo Operatives that can still work together, just not as efficiently.

 

Maybe Price them at ~25 (30) points per unit but give them corresponding Stats / Special rules for Standard Power Armor then Price Terminators and Other Special units accordingly.

This is based off the idea that a 20 man Tac blob at 250 (no upgrades) equalizes out at 12.5 points per marine. That way a Squad of 10 Custodes cost as much as 20 Tac Marines, putting more credence to the idea that they are Legionnaires +2, as Heathens stated.

 

The above would lend well to making them field in smaller numbers than their Astartes counterparts for an equivalent amount of points but would perform roughly the same across the board but would obviously shine in their specialized areas; much like the Legions.

 

Perhaps give them rules that once the squad is diminished beyond a certain number / percentage or the squad leader is slain, it fractures and they all operate as Independent Characters? Also due to their fierce loyalty to the emperor that they get the 40k (but made better by FW) rule of "And They Shall Know No Fear"? That way they don't suddenly fracture then individually run off the table all whilly-nilly.

[GhostMalone]

They need to feel like 4th ed grey knights

 

 

Expensive but you only need a couple

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Custodzilla?

[Slips]

That's their special Emperor Titan Variant.

[b1soul]

Maybe slightly below Primarch Stats. He did tie horus in a duel though...Probably on par or a bit weaker than Lorgar.

 

Whenever this is brought up, I always ask for evidence. I never get any

[Daemon2027]

Custodes Lord of War choice, The Emperor.

[Komrk]

Custodes Lord of War choice, The Emperor.

Nah, the Emperor will just be an upgrade for Valdor like Dorn's Thunderhawk obviously.

[Daemon2027]

He will have the stats of a titan times 10.

 

Dont see how they could him table rules. Would be like trying to make rules for Khorne.

[Fire Golem]

I'm pretty sure they've said they're making rules for him though? They're making a model at least.

[Russ Brother 92]

Yup by the salt-ridden rumours he'll be the combined mix of all the Primarchs +1 (perhaps +2 compared to Lorgar)?

[Daemon2027]

The problem is, that there will be nothing to beat him with the exceception of chaos powered Horus which would not make for entertianing games.

[Fire Golem]

I'm sure he'll play like a Primarch for game terms, weight of fire or heavy weapons will be enough to bring him down.

[Hyaenidae]

A possible reference point for the Custodes Guardian Spear could be the Minotaur's Chapter Master's Black Spear, which is rumoured to be a Custodes weapon in origin.

 

If that's the standard arm of the Custodes, I'd be happy. A Custodian should ace any standard Astartes in hand to hand. Large-scale tactical warfare should swing the pendulum the other way.

 

In my head, I always imagined the Siege of Terra when imagining the Custodes. I can see them moving in small prides, or even alone, striking squads of traitors and fading before strength can be brought against them. If caught in the open, I imagined massed bolter fire cutting them down.

 

This is how I'd like to see them on the tabletop. Less Lions against Wolves, and more Lions against Hyenas. 

[Russ Brother 92]

If I was to put in a modern analogy (much like Heathen's mentioned either in this thread or a diff one), the Custodes are akin to 21st Century SF teams, a 5 man SEAL/SFOD-D/SAS team is trained to handle most threats in a short space of time, fighting the enemy piecemeal on their own terns (as much as possible) and striking at areas like comms, HQ elements and other vulnerable workings - they do this very effectively until you end up with 5 guys vs 100 foes at which point the weight of fire and ability to pin down such a small team swings things almost permanently to the larger force.

 

These Custodes are elite warriors but stick 'em against 10-20 foes and no matter how good they are, without good luck and a helping hand from daddy Emps they're toast.

 

I just hope they run along those lines :) and for the ability to ally them across to other legions for 'protection duty' :)

[Daemon2027]

I don't think they have a modern analogy. To me they are akin to the heros of the Iliad, perfect warriors, but not soldiers.