Let's Talk Custodes

[Black_out]

 

No, obviously not. And you know that, you lovable goon. Especially when it's just one aspect of a wider body of evidence, as mentioned above. If that was the only point, then sure, it'd have looked hokey.

 

I mean... I could've been clearer, but I'm trying to avoid sounding like a tool. Help me out, man. A blunter approach would've been "Yes, Custodians are superior to Space Marines," said the guy writing the definitive novel about the Emperor and his Custodians, who has also discussed the rules with the people designing the Custodians' rules.

 

But it's toolish to say. So now I blame you.

Definitely not toolish...I think everyone agrees that your average Custodian is a superior single combatant to your average SM.

I think the question is...how close are Custodians to Primarchs. I'd say not very close

I dunno though....their physiology definitely seems superior to a regular marine. Iirc and please correct me if I'm wrong but the custodes that got half his head blown off when fighting Lorgar was still remarked as having cognitive function when looked into his eyes.

 

Again I'm just calling up what I remember but if that's true I'd definitely think they may actually be closer to a primarch than the rank & file?

[noigrim]

Not bad.

So are you thinking that non-Terminator Custodes have artificer armor then for the 2+ save?

if not what would be all the bling for?

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

My thing about "Those two Custodes sure seemed confident they could take Dorn and Lorgar..."

 

In Unremembered Empire the Ultramarine Legion Master definitely thought he had a shot at soloing Curze. Behold, proof positive that Ultramarine = Primarch in single combat?

No, obviously not. And you know that, you lovable goon. Especially when it's just one aspect of a wider body of evidence, as mentioned above. If that was the only point, then sure, it'd have looked hokey.

 

I mean... I could've been clearer, but I'm trying to avoid sounding like a tool. Help me out, man. A blunter approach would've been "Yes, Custodians are superior to Space Marines," said the guy writing the definitive novel about the Emperor and his Custodians, who has also discussed the rules with the people designing the Custodians' rules.

 

But it's toolish to say. So now I blame you.

Yeah, but if you'd be a tool more often and speak with the voice of god we wouldn't argue about things that frustrate you endlessly. ;)

[marine7312000]

My thing about "Those two Custodes sure seemed confident they could take Dorn and Lorgar..."

In Unremembered Empire the Ultramarine Legion Master definitely thought he had a shot at soloing Curze. Behold, proof positive that Ultramarine = Primarch in single combat?

No, obviously not. And you know that, you lovable goon. Especially when it's just one aspect of a wider body of evidence, as mentioned above. If that was the only point, then sure, it'd have looked hokey.

I mean... I could've been clearer, but I'm trying to avoid sounding like a tool. Help me out, man. A blunter approach would've been "Yes, Custodians are superior to Space Marines," said the guy writing the definitive novel about the Emperor and his Custodians, who has also discussed the rules with the people designing the Custodians' rules.

But it's toolish to say. So now I blame you.

Yeah, but if you'd be a tool more often and speak with the voice of god the Emperor we wouldn't argue about things that frustrate you endlessly.

Fixed that for you ;)

[b1soul]

I dunno though....their physiology definitely seems superior to a regular marine. Iirc and please correct me if I'm wrong but the custodes that got half his head blown off when fighting Lorgar was still remarked as having cognitive function when looked into his eyes.

 

Imagine a primarch killing a grand total of a whopping 3 marines before being shot in the helmet by the 4th marine and effectively neutralized

 

That would be exceltionally underwhelming for a primarch. An unarmed Bobby G in ceremonial armour...or was it robes...gets caught with his pants around his ankles and still maneuvers through a hail storm of bolts to kill 10 marines. People complain that Bobby G did that with too much difficulty.

 

Vendatha is fully armed and armoured for combat. People are amazed that he kills 3 marines against whom he initiates as the aggressor.

 

Yeah...not seeing how a custodes is close to a primarch. Maybr Valdor...but still think he'll get pasted by Russ, Angron, Horus, Sanguinius, Khan, Lion etc.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

 

My thing about "Those two Custodes sure seemed confident they could take Dorn and Lorgar..."

 

In Unremembered Empire the Ultramarine Legion Master definitely thought he had a shot at soloing Curze. Behold, proof positive that Ultramarine = Primarch in single combat?

No, obviously not. And you know that, you lovable goon. Especially when it's just one aspect of a wider body of evidence, as mentioned above. If that was the only point, then sure, it'd have looked hokey.

 

I mean... I could've been clearer, but I'm trying to avoid sounding like a tool. Help me out, man. A blunter approach would've been "Yes, Custodians are superior to Space Marines," said the guy writing the definitive novel about the Emperor and his Custodians, who has also discussed the rules with the people designing the Custodians' rules.

 

But it's toolish to say. So now I blame you.

Yeah, but if you'd be a tool more often and speak with the voice of god we wouldn't argue about things that frustrate you endlessly. ;)

My untermensch senses were tingling :P

[shandwen]

I imagine they will have a natural strength and toughness of five as they are larger and better built than the average space marine. They should have at least a weapon skill of five also (perhaps six), but a balistics skill of four would be fitting.

Valdor (or whatever their leaders name is) might very well have a primarchs stat-line but will most likely not have iwnd, fear, fearless, and eternal warrior. There is a chance he will have one or two of those rules but I expect him to be a "budget" primarch.

[Kriegriss]

i don't think custodies can hold a candle to a primarch other wise who cares if a primarch goes rogue just send a hit squad of custodies to whack him. not so easy I think that custodies are "individualy" much more powerfull then a space marine maybe not crushingly better then sig or Khârn or Sev but better under most circumstances I also think there is less variable in a custodies ability I fell like they are all genetically handcrafted to an extreme level of capability where space marines are created with a larger tolerance spec on there's, allowing for the base line astartes to be made more quickly and more efficiently. But if the stars align u get great ones like sigi ect.

 

the stength of the Astartes comes from there brother hood and unit cohesion. in first heretic the custodies do not have the same cohesion and unity the Astartes do. Maybe this is a byproduct of there gene forged loyalty to the emperor that allows little room for fellings of fraternity and fellowship with others besides the emperor it doesn't matter . Custodies are incapable of the unity that astartes can achieve thus even though custodies are singularly better then astartes in all ways as far as combat is concerned tougher, faster, and stronger. A squad of 10 astartes is more then the sum of its parts. A squad of 10 custodies is just 10 custodies this differential can be extrapolated as the size of the unit of combatants is increased.

 

and as far as primarchs go if custodies are men amongst boys with the Astartes. primarchs are as gods wading through a flock of sheep let's look at some instances here

 

Lorgar ate a plasma anihilator shot to the face. didn't Angron get buried by an exploding curtain wall and bench a warhound trying to stomp him. Fulgrim snapped the neck of a molten metal wargod with his bare hands if I remember right. Mort gets shredded by 2 fire raptors but still manages to lasso one and drag it close enough to springboard Horus into one of them. Magnus stands up to a wraith titan mono eh mono in one book. I'm sure there is more and while personally I don't condone such super human rubish in my idea of the universe, the actual cannon and fluff does. I can't see in any way how 3 or 4 custodies as good as they may be trying to smoke a primarch that just survived orbital reentry(vulkan) in nothing but his pijamas and while we know not all primarchs are the same or even equal it is said that they are ALL akin to gods amongst men so custodies are like redbull to good old fashioned coke and a primarch is like three lines of white tiger, a Ballon of good H and a can of "SPLODE"

[Loesh]

Yeah, one of Fulgrims more awesome moments was snapping the neck of an Avatar of Khaine with his bare hands, even if Avatars are kind of pushovers these days.

 

I don't think a Custodes could do that.

[b1soul]

Primarch>>>>>>Custodian>Marine>>>>>>Guardsmen

 

That's how I've always seen it. In Ourcast Dead, the Custodes leader Saturnalia and 2 WEs end up killing each other in combat. Vendatha kills 3 WB before getting wrecked.

 

Impressive? Yes. Primarch level? Obviously not

[depthcharge12]

Damn you ADB for extending this thread!!!!!

 

*shakes fist in a geriatric manner*

 

:P

[DarKnight]

Primarch>>>>>>Custodian>Marine>>>>>>Guardsmen

That's how I've always seen it. In Ourcast Dead, the Custodes leader Saturnalia and 2 WEs end up killing each other in combat. Vendatha kills 3 WB before getting wrecked.

Impressive? Yes. Primarch level? Obviously not

Yeah, I get what you're saying and agree for the most part but that scene in outcast dead has to be one of the worst scenes in the entire Horus heresy

[Daemon2027]

Why would the Custodes be promarch level? If the Emperor could make an army of primarch powered troops he would of. Even making troops as strong as the Custodes is difficult which is why they are his personal guard, and Space Merines, which are still vastly better then regular humans, are mass produced.

Why would a Custode think he could kill a Primarchs? I don't think he would, but his duty is to try, in the same way that Space Marines have tried to kill Primarchs.

[b1soul]

 

Primarch>>>>>>Custodian>Marine>>>>>>Guardsmen

That's how I've always seen it. In Ourcast Dead, the Custodes leader Saturnalia and 2 WEs end up killing each other in combat. Vendatha kills 3 WB before getting wrecked.

Impressive? Yes. Primarch level? Obviously not

Yeah, I get what you're saying and agree for the most part but that scene in outcast dead has to be one of the worst scenes in the entire Horus heresy

You mean the other custodes who gets fisted through his chest by the other WE?

 

Saturnalia vs. 2 WEs isn't that bad...

[Wade Garrett]

 

 

My thing about "Those two Custodes sure seemed confident they could take Dorn and Lorgar..."

 

In Unremembered Empire the Ultramarine Legion Master definitely thought he had a shot at soloing Curze. Behold, proof positive that Ultramarine = Primarch in single combat?

No, obviously not. And you know that, you lovable goon. Especially when it's just one aspect of a wider body of evidence, as mentioned above. If that was the only point, then sure, it'd have looked hokey.

 

I mean... I could've been clearer, but I'm trying to avoid sounding like a tool. Help me out, man. A blunter approach would've been "Yes, Custodians are superior to Space Marines," said the guy writing the definitive novel about the Emperor and his Custodians, who has also discussed the rules with the people designing the Custodians' rules.

 

But it's toolish to say. So now I blame you.

Well, yes, you have access to the Deep Lore in ways I can only dream about, you CREATE the Deep Lore, in contrast I...am very mouthy and opinionated. This is known.

 

(Not meaning to imply that you'd specifically insert something into Master of Mankind to win an online argument with me or anyone else [although if that happened to me it would be awesome ;) ] just recognizing the facts).

 

It's just that I'm really wary about "If X believes Y, then Y =...." arguments, especially in 40K/30K where all kinds of people believe all kinds of things.

 

And when it comes to Space Marines or Custodians...well, they've all had that bit of their brain that says things like "No you fool this is a fight you have no chance of winning" cauterized.

 

For example, Talos' "HOW DARE YOU STORM BOLTER ME ABADDON PUT UP YOUR DUKES THAT WE MAY ENGAGE IN FISTICUFFS" moment in Soul Hunter, and that's from a Night Lord.

[A D-B]

 

For example, Talos' "HOW DARE YOU STORM BOLTER ME ABADDON PUT UP YOUR DUKES THAT WE MAY ENGAGE IN FISTICUFFS" moment in Soul Hunter, and that's from a Night Lord.

 

 

Yeah, I wish my dialogue was that good.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Trading rules spoilers for Guinness/Whiskey, ADB.

 

True story; there's a pot still whiskey called Writers Tears.

 

Extra Salty, I've heard.

[depthcharge12]

Trading rules spoilers for Guinness/Whiskey, ADB.

 

True story; there's a pot still whiskey called Writers Tears.

 

Extra Salty, I've heard.

He's in North Ireland - which means they drink that crap whisky called not Jameson.

[Saphrael]

 

He's in North Ireland - which means they drink that crap whisky called not Jameson.

Pretty sure they spell it 'whiskey' there. Because the Irish can't do anything right.

 

Except redheads. They're pretty goddamned awesome at redheads.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

He's in North Ireland - which means they drink that crap whisky called not Jameson.

Pretty sure they spell it 'whiskey' there. Because the Irish can't do anything right.

 

Except redheads. They're pretty goddamned awesome at redheads.

Too drunk to care :P and nah, Black Irish all the way (the southern Irish with pale skin and black hair...and bad tempers). Even my last name in Gaelic means war-like.

[Half Goat]

What I want to know is, how close were the Thunder Warriors ability to the Custodes. I'll go back to lurking mode now.

This is the question that matters here! Would we like to see a thunder warrior vs custodian or a primarch mopping up a bunch of surviving thunder warriors? He'll yes please Mr demski-bowden!