Blood Angels Chapter Tactic...?

[Corvus_Danseur]

Having just lost another game in style (turns out DC-Asorath-DC dreads against Necrons is fun... but glancing to death isn't). I was on my way home and was struck by a thought... if I could choose a chapter tactic for us to get in the forthcoming codex... it would be this (two variants):

 

Either

 

1) Glorious Charge of the Angelic: all jump pack equipped Blood Angel models may make a furious charge. But if a model declares a Glorious Charge it cannot use the Hammer of Wrath attack granted for charging with the jump pack having only moved 6" in the preceding movement phase.

 

OR

 

2) Once bitten, twice as keen: jump pack equipped Blood Angel models may make sweeping advances/consolidate into combat if they win combat in a turn in which they have charged, to be resolved in the combat phase of the following player turn. 

 

Fully aware that this is wish-listing, and due to that a little imbalanced to put it mildly (however I do feel the drawbacks I have added are meaningful).

 

Essentially I have realised that what I really want from the new codex is a way to make the jump pack the rasion-de-etre for the Legion/Chapter. As it currently stands with points cost and units that can take them, JPs are great for mobility and a fun choice, but not a choice that one makes purely for how awesome they are. 

 

Discuss? 

[tsijben]

I think that they sound too complicated, you don't want that with a big complicated rule on every model.

 

The following could be awesome:

Winged Deliverance: Jump Infantry models in this detachment may use their jump packs in both the Movement and Assault phases of the same turn. Furthermore, they must re-roll failed To Wound rolls caused by their Hammer of Wrath hits.

 

We would also really *need* to keep our Descent of Angels and Red Thirst, although the last one should do something completely different.

Just a 16% chance on Furious Charge is really, really lame.

[knife&fork]

 

Just a 16% chance on Furious Charge is really, really lame.

 

Fearless on a scoring unit actually comes in handy from time to time. It's very good to know that a particular unit will hold no matter what until it's wiped out.

 

Furious charge + not even getting to do a HoW attack on the other hand is beyond useless. Easily the worst chapter tactic or trait of any marine army.

[Remtek]

The ability to move 6" after deep striking assault units and something similar to fleet. The JP reroll just dosn't happen alot due to 12" movement being better. Or being able to deep strike some non pod units turn one would also be cool.

[Jolemai]

Currently, it seems that armies have 1-2 "Chapter" Tactics.

 

Dark Eldar have Power from Pain

Eldar have Ancient Doom and Battle Focus

Necrons have Reanimation Protocols

Dark Angels have Grim Resolve

Orks have 'Ere We Go and Mob Role

Tau have Supporting Fire

Tyranids have Instinctive Behavior and/or Synapse

Grey Knights have The Aegis (?)

Astra Militarium have Command Orders

Chaos Space Marines have Champions of Chaos

Chaos Daemons have Daemonic Instability (and Warpstorms of Chaos)

Space Wolves have Acute Senses and Counter Attack

Adepta Sororitas have Act of Faith and Shield of Faith

and then Codex Space Marines have varying ones depending on what flavour you go for.

 

Therefore, it is safe to say we will have 1-2 Chapter Tactics going forward and these may well be revamps of our current ones. Historically, the Blood Angels have been a force focusing on close quarter fire fights and we've always had a lust to get into combat: notably this being with our Death Company.

 

In Codex Angels of Death (written by Priestley and Johnson), we had no army-wide special rules.

In our 3rd edition Codex (written by Thorpe), we had the Red Thirst which caused our forces to moves forward D6" on a roll of 1 at the start of each turn.

In our 4th edition PDF, (written by Johnson), we had no army wide special rules.

In our current Codex, (written by Ward), we gained a new version of Red Thirst and Descent of Angels.

 

The new Codex is rumoured to be written by a 2-4 man design team that is fronted by Johnson. Whilst we will get special rules from him this time around (simply because every other faction does), he has his own ideas of how the Blood Angels should be (as penned in his 4th edition notes) and this will likely be apparent in the rules for us.

 

We may also have clues from the latest Apocalypse book. Our Warlord's Finest Hour (Son of the Angel) sees him become a Flying Monstrous Creature for a turn. Our Divine Intervention (For the Emperor!) - activated once we have taken 50% or more casualties - sees every unit gain Furious Charge and Fearless. From our formations, our Death Company formation has Rising Fury (our charge bonus depends on the turn number - so a turn five charge sees each marine have +5 attacks), our Tycho formation has First Into Battle (Fast HP 3 Land Raiders) and Rapid Insertion Force (Scout) and our Sanguinor formation has Airborne Assault (Deep Strike and Descent of Angels - can arrive in opponent's turn) and Caught Unawares (Shrouded on the turn they arrive via Desp Strike). Perhaps we may see a toned down version of these? (Although if this were the case, then perhaps it would appear in our Warlord Traits?)

 

It's possible that our VVs Heroic Intervention *may* become available elsewhere, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Xenith]

In our 3rd edition Codex (written by Thorpe), we had the Red Thirst which caused our forces to moves forward D6" on a roll of 1 at the start of each turn.

In the 3rd ed codex, not only did we have the bonus d6 move, but:

 

All models had furious charge (before it was even called that) for +1S and I on the charge

Overcharged rhinos for no extra cost (rhino could move 18" on a d6 roll of 2+)

All blood angels could disembark from vehicles that moved more than 12"

 

This led to the inevitable BA rhino rush,as you could still charge after disembarking. Where anything within 26" of a rhino at the start of it's turn was chargeable. No embarktion points in those days either.

[Morticon]

wasnt it a 4+, but on a 1 it stalled? 

[Jolemai]

Under Wargear in the 3rd edition Codex was the entry for Overcharged Engines. It would state that at the end of your move you could take a difficult terrain test and if passed, you could go an extra 6" that you could subsequently disembark from.

 

In the 4th edition PDF you would roll a D6 before you moved. On a 1 you stalled and could not move that turn. On a 2-3 it failed to kick in and you moved normally. On a 4+ the vehicle would act like a fast vehicle, but limited to a maximum move of 18".

[Chaplain Admetus]

Ninja'd by Jolemai whilst post-writing.

 

On the subject of Chapter Tactics, tweaking Red Thirst a little bit and keeping Descent of Angels would be enough. A 1/6 chance of Furious Charge and Fearless (which is probably on balance worse than ATSKNF) is very lacklustre.

[Sans Mercy]

Those Raven Guard tactics look perfect for BA.

[Jolemai]

I beg to differ:

 

C:SM, page 78

 

Strike from the Shadows

Infantry that's not Bulky, Very Bulky, (etc), have the Scout USR and are Shrouded on the first turn.

 

This is very un-BA

 

Winged Deliverance

Jump Infantry can use their Jump Packs in both the Movement and Assault phases, and can re-roll Hammer of Wrath attacks.

 

Utterly pointless for the majority of our forces. Following Ward's Codex we now *enjoy* using a Jump Pack but we are not famed for deploying/fighting from them

 

Blood Angels are not a scouting force. We are not one that strikes from the shadows. We are an army that focuses on, excels at and even delights in close quarter fighting - and I don't necessary mean hand to hand by that either. The Baal Predator's turret either has 24" or 8" range, with sponsons that compliment it. Yes Dante has a Jump Pack but that is (arguably) merely to get him into range to use his Perdition Pistol. He was also the original IC that could have an Honour Guard and these would often be equipped with Special Weapons to promote said close quarter fighting. The Death Company would be unleashed to break any resistance after all.

 

[Disclaimer: By all means, feel free to play your BA as RG as it's your hobby! The above is just my opinion after all.]

[Morticon]

Does anyone want to start a small project/history thread relating to development and evolution of BA rules?  This is a great starting point. 

 

Will be amazing to track the changes and special rules!

[Xenith]

Winged Deliverance

Jump Infantry can use their Jump Packs in both the Movement and Assault phases, and can re-roll Hammer of Wrath attacks.

 

Utterly pointless for the majority of our forces. Following Ward's Codex we now *enjoy* using a Jump Pack but we are not famed for deploying/fighting from them

 

Blood Angels are not a scouting force. We are not one that strikes from the shadows. We are an army that focuses on, excels at and even delights in close quarter fighting - and I don't necessary mean hand to hand by that either. The Baal Predator's turret either has 24" or 8" range, with sponsons that compliment it. Yes Dante has a Jump Pack but that is (arguably) merely to get him into range to use his Perdition Pistol. He was also the original IC that could have an Honour Guard and these would often be equipped with Special Weapons to promote said close quarter fighting. The Death Company would be unleashed to break any resistance after all.

 

[Disclaimer: By all means, feel free to play your BA as RG as it's your hobby! The above is just my opinion after all.]

 

I think you missed the point a bit. Nobody is saying use RG rules for BA, just that the Winged Deliverance rule is more fitting for the BA. 

 

I also don't know if you misread the background, but the BA still have a preference for equipping themselves with jump packs. The codex just cleared up the misconception that the BA had more assault marines than other chapters, by clarifying that marines prefer to be in the assault squads, so assault squads are usually at full strength, while other squads such as tacticals may be below strength.

 

The codex also reinforces the BA's mastery of the use of jump packs with the 'Descent of Angels' rule.

 

Allowing the use of the jump pack in both phases is a rule that should have been for the BA. 

 

I'd guess:

 

All units get furious charge, no rolling needed.

Descent of angels remains as is.

 

I want to think that a priest would grant 4+FNP as before 6th, or maybe 5+, or adds +1 to FnP rolls if the unit already has it. With everyone having FC as standard, the priest could possibly add the +1I again?

[Shaezus]

I think our chapter traits will remain the same, in name at least. DoA itself is fine but its usefulness is nerfed - completely so - by the high JP cost for units other than ASM. So reduced price JP is the cherry here. Considering our affinity for jump packs it makes sense to reduce their points value, so we could see more of them.

 

Warlord traits and maybe some relics will hopefully bring some new and useful BA flavour.

[Sans Mercy]

I beg to differ:

 

C:SM, page 78

 

Strike from the Shadows

Infantry that's not Bulky, Very Bulky, (etc), have the Scout USR and are Shrouded on the first turn.

 

This is very un-BA

 

Winged Deliverance

Jump Infantry can use their Jump Packs in both the Movement and Assault phases, and can re-roll Hammer of Wrath attacks.

 

Utterly pointless for the majority of our forces. Following Ward's Codex we now *enjoy* using a Jump Pack but we are not famed for deploying/fighting from them

 

Blood Angels are not a scouting force. We are not one that strikes from the shadows. We are an army that focuses on, excels at and even delights in close quarter fighting - and I don't necessary mean hand to hand by that either. The Baal Predator's turret either has 24" or 8" range, with sponsons that compliment it. Yes Dante has a Jump Pack but that is (arguably) merely to get him into range to use his Perdition Pistol. He was also the original IC that could have an Honour Guard and these would often be equipped with Special Weapons to promote said close quarter fighting. The Death Company would be unleashed to break any resistance after all.

 

[Disclaimer: By all means, feel free to play your BA as RG as it's your hobby! The above is just my opinion after all.]

Well that's just like, your opinion, man.

 

I play BA for bloodthirsty close-combat psychos on wings of flame. Not to have 6 five man teams hugging their razorbacks hoping to survive to the last round to win "points".

[Adorondak]

I imagine the cost of jump packs will come down. Maybe not a lot but I'm hoping by enough to make jump DC a reasonably costed unit.

 

What I'm really curious about is what kind of detachments and formations, and what special rules they will have, that will be included in the new book. What I'd like to see is some detachment with a rule similar to the death wing assault. Along the lines of all the jump infantry are held in reserves and arrive on turn one, doa and all, and until the beginning of their next enemies that target them in the shooting phase can only shot snap shots.

 

I've got a lot of jump infantry sitting on my shelf waiting for a reason to come back on the table. Something like that would definitely get them some play time

[Jorre]

I'd like to see descent of angels kept the same. Scrap red thirst all together and give us something cool like rerolls to hit for 1 turn after deep striking or out flanking!

 

Might be to powerfull

[Orblivion]

-Chapter Tactics:  Descent of Angels plus Furious Charge

-Red Thirst:  Triggers on a roll of 1 or 2.  Grants Fearless, units that have succumbed must attempt to charge the closest enemy during the assault phase, even after deep strike or disembarking.

-Blood Chalice:  Grants FNP 5+ and +1I to the unit.

 

Thoughts?  The Red Thirst one would never happen, but I think it would be kinda cool.

[Angelus Mortifer]

Your Red Thirst suggestion has some fun (though likely to never happen) mechanics, but I would hate to be faced with having to charge an Imperial Knight, or Stompa, or 10-man Nurgle Terminator Squad with my 5-man Asst Squad, when I was hoping to blow up a Vindi or whatever as the preferred target.

 

I think GW have been quite focused on giving players control back to the games we are playing, although there are a couple of things that don't fall into that category (e.g. Warp Storm Table). I'm personally not a big fan of game mechanics that don't allow you to do what you want, and are in essence out of your control, despite being given "benefits" in tandem with the detriments.

[Orblivion]

Your Red Thirst suggestion has some fun (though likely to never happen) mechanics, but I would hate to be faced with having to charge an Imperial Knight, or Stompa, or 10-man Nurgle Terminator Squad with my 5-man Asst Squad, when I was hoping to blow up a Vindi or whatever as the preferred target.

 

I think GW have been quite focused on giving players control back to the games we are playing, although there are a couple of things that don't fall into that category (e.g. Warp Storm Table). I'm personally not a big fan of game mechanics that don't allow you to do what you want, and are in essence out of your control, despite being given "benefits" in tandem with the detriments.

 

Yeah I thought of that, and I thought I had come up with something with a decent amount of control still.  Death Company used to be forced to move towards an enemy and could just be kited around the map.  With this you can still move the squad in question wherever you want, so there should be times that you would be able to move the unit enough that the target you want IS the closest enemy.  Still, I understand what you're saying about giving control back, and I agree it is something we would likely never see.  I'm just having fun trying to create rules that fit within my idea of the Blood Angels and doesn't completely break them :)