BA Today

[Spagunk]

Done with my army for LVO:

"Legionary" Tactical squad (see second half of squad in previous post)


Full army going to LVO


I didn't get the bases done on the assault marines as I lost interested for a bit (they were painted last summer). Although I do have one more unit not shown here, this is the completed 1k list I'll be bringing to LVO this year.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Spagunk

[Jolemai]

The BA Sternguard box (Sternguard plus upgrade sprue) is no longer available online. Whilst the two items remain available individually, the bundle is not so we can expect the rest of these to vanish at some point.

[Djangomatic82]

The BA Sternguard box (Sternguard plus upgrade sprue) is no longer available online. Whilst the two items remain available individually, the bundle is not so we can expect the rest of these to vanish at some point.

unfortunate, here's hoping its just due to a repack though.

Really wish they would do a repack of the BA command squad box though and add one of those 5pc jump pack sprue's so Sang Noviates, company vets, company ancient  and companch champ with JP's would be a legal option again.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Just something fun that I've been playing around with. Rhino filled with a payload activating Lucifer Engines + Red thirst for that sweet sweet turn 1 19" movement then popping smoke, followed by 2 - 3 more rhinos with payloads advancing 14 - 19" alongside is pretty dope. It's kinda fun having the opponent be surprised that you have 20 ~ 40 Marines on their table edge turn 1. 

[Jolemai]

New Unit of the Week entry:

• Repulsor Exterminator

[Loishy]

Today I start to working on a old Land Raider to repaint it. I already removed the paint and now I'm using greenstuff and sandpaper to "repair" it. I'm also going to try to put magnets on the lateral turret to be able to switch between reedemer and crusader models. 

[Djangomatic82]

What are peoples thoughts on running SG with no expectation of benefiting from Heirs of Azkellion? During the matches where i do not have access to it, I find hitting on 3's to be pretty lack luster for a lynch pin unit meant to take on the big threats.

I have been thinking of running a dual battalion of BA and Flesh Tearers, with a BA Smash captain being the Warlord for free access to The Angels Wings, then having another Captain in the Flesh Tearers battalion with Creteacian Born trait, a 10 man squad of Sanguainary Guard with power fists and a Sanguinary Priest with Sorrows Genesis, intended to be used in conjunction with the Chalice Overflowing strat to have the option of returning 2 models a turn.

The notion of having 2 overwatch immune smash captains, 10 PF SG and rezzing 2 models on 2+ seems like a good idea until i start going over the practicality of the composition. Having the SG not being the same faction as the warlord means keeping the FT smash captain close to them if i want the rerolls, but that feels like going counter to the fire and forget purpose of smash captains, doubly so with the other one being the WL. Am i just being to pessimistic, or are these types of strategic trade offs just part of the BA game in your opinion.

EDIT: This composition is also attempting to have a FT Sang Ancient that runs the SoS by using the Honored by Baal strat.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Djangomatic82

[The Unseen]

Dj, your better off spending a CP to give your smash captain a warlord trait, and giving your Sanguinary Ancient your "actual" warlord. Then your SG get rerolls to hit, reroll 1s to wound, and a 5+++ from just the ancient, and therefore don't need anyone else holding their hand AND when your smash captain inevitably dies, he isn't your warlord for VP for your opponent. Though a Priest is always nice for the +1 Str and heals. But not required.

[Majkhel]

I'd say that if you're not planning on benefiting from the HoA rule, then maximize other options. For example:

- Use Tremor Shells to give them +1 to hit (really good with power fists),

- Increase number of their attacks (Sanguinor, Red Rampage, psychic powers etc.)

 

After all this, it's still best to use all of those options AND HoA ;)

Edited January 28, 2020 by Majkhel

[Karhedron]

Dj, your better off spending a CP to give your smash captain a warlord trait, and giving your Sanguinary Ancient your "actual" warlord.

This is good advice but I actually take it one step further and make one of the Sanguinary Guard my Warlord. Yes it means I lose out on a WL trait but it means the full guaranteed reroll is "baked in" to the squad and they never lose it, even if support characters fluff their charge rolls or need to run off in different directions.

 

Now that we have HotC, we can do this and still run Captain Smash. The way to look at it is consider this question. Prior to Blood of Baal, would you have spent 1CP pre-game to give your Sanguinary Guard full rerolls at all time?

 

I know I would!

[Loishy]

Just something fun that I've been playing around with. Rhino filled with a payload activating Lucifer Engines + Red thirst for that sweet sweet turn 1 19" movement then popping smoke, followed by 2 - 3 more rhinos with payloads advancing 14 - 19" alongside is pretty dope. It's kinda fun having the opponent be surprised that you have 20 ~ 40 Marines on their table edge turn 1. 

I love this idea. What did you put in your rhino ? Half of my company have transport because I want to do the same, but I don't find tactical marines and assault marines really scary, even if they are on the opponent table edge turn 1. 

[Indefragable]

Might seem kind of crazy, but I like putting CQW Scouts in Rhinos and/or Stormravens.

[The Unseen]

I could see cc scouts in a Raven.

Cheap enough that it doesn't make the Raven a bigger target, and can hope out and grab an objective well.

 

You don't want stuff that's really scary and expensive, as the Raven already might get focused down early, but you do kinda want to make use of its transport capacity.

I like sternguard myself.

Bit more expensive, but still on the low end of threatening for a BA list, and they can turn just as surprisingly punchy with some character support, just like intercessors.

 

For rhino spam, I'd send one with DC straight up the table with Lucifer engines, pop smoke, and throw on the 5++ shield for good measure, with backup in the form of either sternguard or more DC, and of course, dreadnoughts.

[Spagunk]

Just wanted to post this pic I took at LVO:


I had a good time with my other Horus Heresy crew doing non-stop Zone Mortalis games. Won a few and lost a few but otherwise had a great time. If you happen to have a small crew to enjoy the days, I would recommend going just to see all the neato armies and games going on.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

 

Just something fun that I've been playing around with. Rhino filled with a payload activating Lucifer Engines + Red thirst for that sweet sweet turn 1 19" movement then popping smoke, followed by 2 - 3 more rhinos with payloads advancing 14 - 19" alongside is pretty dope. It's kinda fun having the opponent be surprised that you have 20 ~ 40 Marines on their table edge turn 1.

I love this idea. What did you put in your rhino ? Half of my company have transport because I want to do the same, but I don't find tactical marines and assault marines really scary, even if they are on the opponent table edge turn 1.

9 Death company + corbulo in one 9 DC + quake captain in another third is usually 2 RASM with 4 plasma or flamers depending on points. If I take a 4th it's another 5 RASM with same load out + librarian with icon + a company vet squad with storm shields chainswords and plasma guns.

[The4thHorseman]

Anyone know how BA did as a Faction in the 2020 LVO?

[Karhedron]

Anyone know how BA did as a Faction in the 2020 LVO?

Not much of note. Marines dominated the top tables with a mix of Iron Hands and Stealthy Master Crafters. There was only 1 BA detachment in the top 8 and it was part of an Imperial Soup list.

 

Here is Justin Lois's list. https://d2qt8zqj46g81a.cloudfront.net/aq7j0m3rtap3vn3b.pdf

[Hintzy]

Stephen Box, the only pure BA player I recognized and followed, went 4-2. He used three SG blobs (8 each?), Scouts, Incursors, and a bunch of characters.

 

But yeah, pure BA was certainly not a standout. Did anybody see anybody go 5-1?

[Indefragable]

I’ve seen a number of different lists that run 3x6 SG so maybe that’s the template Stephen Box Dan.

Idea seems to be 3x groups of SG + Smash Capt; the SG get the re-roll aura and the Capt gets Character protection. One of the three is the “main” unit that has the WL and full re-rolls.

*******

Got a game in today against one of my perpetual frenemies running Black Legion. Mephy popped Red Rampage and Vengeance for Sanguinius against Abaddon to knock him down to 2 wounds (I had opted to cast Shield instead of Quickening, otherwise he might have solo’d him). I freaking looooooove popping V4S against BL for those sweet exploding 4’s.

I used a pretty mean list which I will post for critiques.

 

UPDATE: this is the list I used. Critiques welcome: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361598-2000pt-competitive-ba-brigade-decapitation-strike/?p=5470025 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Indefragable

[Chronos1985]

After watching the LVO, I thought a lot about where BA currently stands. I think our strategems are fine, and our turn 3 buff COULD be ok. But what we're missing, we may not get for some time, and that is jump pack melee assault primaris. 2 wounds is a pretty big deal. Imagine 2 wounds assault primaris marines, and death company with jump packs. Do Primaris SG go to three wounds? 

 

I don't know. Something about not getting our boon till turn 3 I feel is a huge disadvantage that perhaps multi wounds assaults units, and/or a better saves may alleviate (Primaris SG stay at 2 woulds with better saves). Maybe not?

 

Too bad the next wave seems to be landspeeders. Maybe the Baal Repulsor changes things.

 

Curious on everyone's thoughts going forward.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Chronos1985

[Karhedron]

It is true that having to wait until turn 3 for our super-doctrine to kick in reduces its value somewhat. On the other hand, it does mean that we have less to lose if we wish to soup with other Marine factions.

 

I think our strength comes from our specialist units like Captain Smash, SG, Libby Dread and DC combined with our new stratagems. SG in particular get a tasty points drop too in CA19 which is handy.

 

I don't think we are quite up there with the baked in bonuses of lists like Iron Hands but I think it is fair to say they are probably the best army in the game at the moment. We are powerful but also dependent on CPs for our hitting power. The flip side is that Savage Echoes kicks in around the time most of us are running out of CPs and so gives the army a handy "second wind"".

 

We may not be top tier but we are pretty competitive and certainly very fluffy.

[Hintzy]

JUst one more data point regarding LVO:

 

BA were the second worst performing Space Marine Chapter in attendance, beating out only Space Wolves. Dark Angels, without their latest Psychic Awakening rules, out-performed BA. White Scars were 8th of the 12 chapters represented. Perhaps this reflects more on the performance of melee focused chapters vs shooting focused chapters, which isn't a surprising result.

 

This is per the latest Goonhammer.com article, and doesn't seem to include Deathwatch or Grey Knights.

[Chronos1985]

JUst one more data point regarding LVO:

 

BA were the second worst performing Space Marine Chapter in attendance, beating out only Space Wolves. Dark Angels, without their latest Psychic Awakening rules, out-performed BA. White Scars were 8th of the 12 chapters represented. Perhaps this reflects more on the performance of melee focused chapters vs shooting focused chapters, which isn't a surprising result.

 

This is per the latest Goonhammer.com article, and doesn't seem to include Deathwatch or Grey Knights.

 

Right, that's essentially what I am saying. BA may become more competitive once the wave of primaries that suits our army is finally released. Perhaps when we do get it, it shores up our holes. I inherently like our chapter buff, and our strategems. I'm just waiting on our wave of new astartes to maximize our army style. Take White Scars for example, when they get the new primaris biker units, they may see a drastic jump toward becoming more competitive. 

 

Mind you, i'm not much a competitive player, but just interested in balance. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Chronos1985

[Indefragable]

I would be shocked if Iron Hands don’t get reworked somehow. When even the winner of the LVO says he chose a faction (IH) and exploited its rules b/c he didn’t feel it was possible to beat that combo with his preferred faction (Tau) you know something’s gotta change. See the Goonhammer interview with Richard Siegler, LVO champ.

 

In terms of factions with Power Armor Privilege, either everyone needs more control over what Doctrine is active when...or everyone needs less control over what Doctrine is active when. I.e. you can control what doctrine you use each turn, or you can start and AssDoc then switch to DevDoc, or start in TacDoc then switch to AssDoc, etc... OR everyone starts in DevDoc, but you have to pay escalated CP to stay in it. So T1 is DevDoc, to stay in it top of T2 you pay 1CP. To stay in T3 you pay 2/3CP. T4 it costs 3/5CP or such.

 

The latter would force the “SM are supposed to be well rounded” idea. The former would give folks more control and be more competitive overall...

 

...but that then leads into what all non-Astartes factions get to keep up. And of course the argument is do they need to keep up? Are a few bad apples (IH, RG, IF) ruining it for everyone and if they are brought in line the game is somewhat balanced (I don’t know...Eldar are never bad it seems and Tau for the first time are supposedly hard-countered by the new SM stuff). So of course the question is what will other forces get, if anything.

[Djangomatic82]

 

JUst one more data point regarding LVO:

 

BA were the second worst performing Space Marine Chapter in attendance, beating out only Space Wolves. Dark Angels, without their latest Psychic Awakening rules, out-performed BA. White Scars were 8th of the 12 chapters represented. Perhaps this reflects more on the performance of melee focused chapters vs shooting focused chapters, which isn't a surprising result.

 

This is per the latest Goonhammer.com article, and doesn't seem to include Deathwatch or Grey Knights.

 

Right, that's essentially what I am saying. BA may become more competitive once the wave of primaries that suits our army is finally released. Perhaps when we do get it, it shores up our holes. I inherently like our chapter buff, and our strategems. I'm just waiting on our wave of new astartes to maximize our army style. Take White Scars for example, when they get the new primaris biker units, they may see a drastic jump toward becoming more competitive. 

 

Mind you, i'm not much a competitive player, but just interested in balance. 

 

I don't believe primaris CC units are the solution to our problem. We already have their equivalent, with much better support, in the form of SG.

The issue is that we have been pigeon holed in to the extreme end of the close combat realm, given the best CC trait in +1 to wound, great units that punch above their weight in DC and SG and finally some of the best strat to get our units into combat (UWoF, FF and UA).

All of these are excellent, but the Charge and Fight phase don't generally win games on their own and we are meant to win in those phases alone.

I want to say that we need to change our army style to a more combined arms approach, but i really don't see us having the tools necessary to bring that approach to a level far beyond what was available to us when the Index's were released.