[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[Charlo]

I gotta say, having a champion tank a Preator with the sword while phoenix terms murder his unit and then you get extra combat resolution and sweep anyway is pure genius and a quality tactic. "oh your Beefed up eternal warrior Salamanders murder machine just whiffed his attacks and is now run done by my dudes as I riposte his head off."

 

Pure EC.

[01RTB01]

Out of interest, have people been playing Kakophoni with the rumoured change to 2 shots each? How have they fared?

Awesome. Ran 2 squads of ten. If they make them Heavy 2 officially then kakophoni will be my default troops. They're v similar to volkite squads but are stubborn and if bio psychic shock comes off it could mess up elite squads nicely. Being heavy 2 does make this more probable.

[Theredknight]

Hopefully they remove the 'gets hot!' Negative. But if they become even semi usable I will be happy.

 

I don't seem to have too much luck with saves, one roll of 1 and your a gonner quite often. If it allowed re rollable saves or something I'd think about it.

I play against lot of special characters, Khârn, sevatar, sigs, etc etc in almost every list.

What the hey, Maybe il try it out and ask about a reduced points value to see if it's useful. Il see if I can line up a friendly this weekend. Maybe il end up eating my words. (Word eaters?) sure it's no photonic blade but why not try it again.

 

Maybe il also trial kakophoni while I'm at it. Problem with ec is even a small change can throw your army wildly off balance. Hence why iv stuck to the list I have been winning with for a while, changing up between terminators in Spartan, to jump packs or scorpius. It's nice to throw a spanner in the works for your enemy.

 

Imo ec play very well as a shooting army while the enemy closes and then counter attack when in range. If your playing against a gun line army the extra dice to choose from running is quite helpful with re deploying and avoiding those typhon line of sights.

I like to think it's perfectly co ordinated fire with application of swift strikes from assault units. At least that's how I justify it

[01RTB01]

I lost a load of kakophoni due to them exploding themselves - it's all part of the pursuit for perfection :) relentless helps with mobility which I forgot to add before.

[Theredknight]

Hey they aren't plasma guns, or really anything near as good, and no where in the books does it say they over heat. If they were ap2 then yeah sure.

That's why I couldn't understand that harsh penalty.

Tbh they are more likely to just be shooting meq aren't they? Trying to wound terminators will be pretty hard with the 2+ saves.

And I have plenty of other stuff that does that more effectively at a longer range.

[Hesh Kadesh]

They have the gets hot rule, sure. I think this is representative of the feedback overwhelming them. If there is a Julius Kaesoron, or a sonic choir RoW, then that is likely to remove it, if not outright remove them from Heavy Support.

 

If it was me, 'Sunkiller' Rite of War. Kakophoni and HSS equipped with Lascannons become troops. May not take more tanks than infantry. Kakophoni lose Gets Hot'

[01RTB01]

The new rite of war grants relentless and moves them to troops slots but we know little else so far.

 

With them being troops they're wounding marines and terms on a 2+ and ultimately weight of fire will slay terms. If they had Ap2 that would make them insanely good and a no brainer. I don't think they're a good heavy support choice, but troops - yes please!

 

They're basic troops that are scoring, stubborn and can kill rhinos as well as infantry. I'm not saying they're the best thing ever but they are fluffy and can kick like mules.

[Theredknight]

There was talk of making them heavy 2, that would make them more worthwhile, while killing your own guys more potentially, the only way you'd hobble terminators etc is with volume of fire, one round of 10 just doesn't cut it, youl be lucky to wound 1. Been there, tried that!

Even better allow them a feel no pain save 5+. Or enjoy pain or whatever they do.

 

One good thing could be that they also come stock with sonic shriekers, couple that with relentless and making them troops (hopefully removing gets hot) and maybe 2 shots and that is a pretty decent unit, assuming the price stays the same or very similar.

 

That's fine if it's a rite of war, as maru skara is next to useless compared with other legion ones.

Sorry +1" to run, charge and move distances in only your first turn for the champion price of 150pts is not good value for money! (Open blade)

Maybe it would be ok if it was every turn..

Edited January 20, 2016 by Theredknight

[Caustic63]

The biggest questions I still have in regards to the new Kakophoni Rite of War are:

 

1) What units/rules am I not going to be able to use?

2) Are Kakophoni going to be Compulsory Troops, Non-Compulsory Troops, or just simply Troops?

3) Am I going to be forced to take an additional Troops choice?

4) Are my slots going to be restricted in Fast Attack or Heavy Support?

 

Specifics are important if lists are going to be planned, so I'd really like to know all these things before I go out and buy a bunch of Kakophoni models.

[Hesh Kadesh]

1. We don't have the book.

2. We don't have the book.

3. We don't have the book.

4. We don't have the book.

[Charlo]

The entire AoD boards are on edge for another couple of weeks for info hah!

 

February is sooooon

[dark_elf]

Slipstream, I took another look through the book and I keep coming back to dreads because I love the models, so I took another crack at trying to make it work. T1 drop will be Levi, Legion Dread and either Plasma Support Squad or Meltabomb Vets, depending on opponents army. If there's a Spartan then its going to be Meltabomb Vets.

 

2K EC: Pride

 

HQ: 

Consul Delegatus - AA, Combi-Plasma, MC Phoenix Spear, Refractor

 

ELITES:

Legion Mortis Dread -  2 x Missile Launcher, Havok Launcher

Legion Dread - ChainFist and CCW, DDP

 

TROOPS:

Vets x 10 - Meltabombs, Tank Hunters

Vets x 9 - Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Phoenix Spear, Sniper

Support Squad x 5 - Plasma guns x 5

 

FAST:

Dreadclaw x 3

 

HEAVY:

Leviathan - Drill, Grav, Ceramite, DDP

Deredeo - Missile

 

The above list has at least 2 units that can deal with TEQ, MEQ, Light Transports, AV14 and Air. Is it balanced? Can it be further optimised? Or should I completely ditch the dread theme?

 

I can ditch the Havok Launcher on the Mortis and replace with the Phosphex on the Levi.

 

Question for you guys, Dread drops down in his DDP, stays shrouded and pops smoke launchers. Does it play out as 3+ cover save for the game turn? 5+ from Smoke Launchers and Shrouded adds a further 2. Or is the DDP large enough to grant a 4+ cover save by itself, which brings it to a 2+ with the pod's Shrouded rule? Sorry had to ask as I don't own a DDP.

 

Either way I am thinking the Levi and CCW Dread will come down in the same turn. I can position the Dread and it's pod to obscure the Levi, while the Levi will unload its cover ignoring Grav and delete a unit within 18".

 

While I love the models above, what I hope to achieve is to build a core of 2k and to expand upwards to 3k without ditching the core, hence I am taking time to make the list on paper and any input form the form patrons will be greatly appreciated. At the 2.5k and up level I will definitely be adding a Typhon because... well it looks cool :)

[dark_elf]

Updated my above list to see if it can be more effective. I have traded the Mortis Dread for a Sicaran with Ceramite, and the Dreadclaw for a rhino for the plasma Vet squad that baby sit's my HQ. This leaves me with 70 points to spend. I can spend the 70 on Phosphex for the Levi, AA on both Vet squads and 2 x Grav guns for the CCW DDP. Or I can up the Plasma Support squad with a couple more bodies and plasma guns.

 

I still think the Deredeo is a great unit on paper. I guess I will know only after playing some games, so I would be interested to hear what people has to say about this unit. The Levi... well I have to have 1 in my list. I could drop the DDP but it's guns are super short ranged so I think it needs it.

 

 

2K EC: Pride

 

HQ: 

Consul Delegatus - AA, Combi-Plasma, MC Phoenix Spear, Refractor

 

ELITES:

Legion Dread - ChainFist and CCW, DDP

 

TROOPS:

Vets x 10 - Meltabombs, Tank Hunters

Vets x 9 - Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma, Phoenix Spear, Sniper, Rhino

Support Squad x 5 - Plasma guns x 5

 

FAST:

Dreadclaw x 2

 

HEAVY:

Leviathan - Drill, Grav, Ceramite, DDP

Deredeo - Missile

Sicaran - Ceramite

[Slips]

Go for Chosen Duty as a RoW instead. No need to change anything in the list and it means you wont lose a VP if both Vet Squads are lost; it's only happen if the Delegatus Dies.

 

Shrouded is 4+ Cover. No need to really pop Smoke especially since the dread can stay inside.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Slipstreams

[dark_elf]

The Chosen Duty ROW is a good point. I will definitely swap it if I stay with 2 Vet squads but I am now thinking of making this change:

 

The Meltabomb Vets(10) can be swapped for Terminators(5) all with chainfists. 1 has 10 Meltabomb attacks with Tankhunters and the other has 15 Chainfist attacks on the charge. The latter is more survivable to retaliation, but has half the wounds. Both squads will ride in a Dreadclaw and make a bee line for the heaviest enemy armor, such as Spartan or Typhon etc.

 

Which do people prefer?

Edited January 24, 2016 by dark_elf

[Caillum]

Ah, this old chestnut! I think the Terminators come out on top:

- if you use your Fast Attack slots, you might prefer the Terminators as they can take Dreadclaws as DTs. Veterans can't.

- 15 Armourbane attacks trumps 10 Armourbane with Tank Hunters, simply due to more hits.

- a Typhon will hurt Terminators less than the Veterans. 5 Cataphractii Terminators - 5 hits, 4 wounds, 2 dead. 10 Veterans - 10 hits, 8 wounds, 8 dead. 3 Terminators left alive is better than 2 Veterans.

 

However, if you're running "Pride of the Legion" to get those Terminators as Troops, then the extra VP for killing them (and the Vets) is a bit of a problem. Easier to keep a model alive (sometimes) than units that will be front-line combat. "Chosen Duty" has the swing factor too - keep Delegatus alive and you gain a VP. :)

[dark_elf]

I'm thinking for the moment I'm going to go with Chosen Duty and keep the Vets.

Nothing like 10 suicide vets rushing headlong into av14 that needs to be shut down.

[GorgeousGoat]

All, 

 

Is Maru Skara not worth using anymore from what I'm reading? 

 

I currently run it at 2k and 3k pts and I've had success - especially against the camping and shooting Ultramarines/Alpha Legion in my local meta. 

Interested to see if we get any rules updates for units like Kakophoni as they are great models and fluff wise but not worth it atm. 

 

Further to this - I have used my Legion Champion on a Jetbike with a supporting Melta Bomb squad for anti-tanking on the flank (MM too)...

However, I wondered about using a Void Shield on him as there are too many S10AP1 Ignores Cover blasts now that could insta-kill the whole squad (Typhon, Medusa etc). 
Could a Void Shield tank a Typhon Dreadhammer blast and save the squad? 

 

Great comments and I'm learning so much from this thread guys!! 
Thanks

GG

[Charlo]

Void shield can indeed tank the blast.

 

But relics are now confirmed in the FAQ to be opponent permission only and campaigns. Not for normal list building.

[GorgeousGoat]

Thanks for the update. I haven't used it yet so will notify them from now on. 

 

Apart from trying to MB the Typhon with Jetbikes - any ideas? 

[Charlo]

Javelins with lascannons out flanking to avoid flare shield, but at that point the spartan has probably delivered his cargo.

[GorgeousGoat]

Spartan's don't worry me so much as I have Storm Eagle and if a Spartan wants to bring units closer to my Palatines with Eidolon - yes please!!!

 

Having a lot of success with Jump Pack Palatines with Eidolon in a Storm Eagle:

- T2 blitz with shooting to open the metal bawkse or zoom closer to squishy units.

- T3 disembark and charge - I5 with mix of Power Weapons and Charnabal sabres and then Eidolon makes an easy win and then Sweep them up. 

- T4 Sweep up other units or their Warlord for the Maru Skara objective.

It's the Typhon that scares me - 7" of death with up to 48" range is too scary for my jetbikes and Palatines! 

Edited February 2, 2016 by GorgeousGoat

[MorgothNL]

Spartan's don't worry me so much as I have Storm Eagle and if a Spartan wants to bring units closer to my Palatines with Eidolon - yes please!!!

 

Having a lot of success with Jump Pack Palatines with Eidolon in a Storm Eagle:

- T2 blitz with shooting to open the metal bawkse or zoom closer to squishy units.

- T3 disembark and charge - I5 with mix of Power Weapons and Charnabal sabres and then Eidolon makes an easy win and then Sweep them up. 

- T4 Sweep up other units or their Warlord for the Maru Skara objective.

 

It's the Typhon that scares me - 7" of death with up to 48" range is too scary for my jetbikes and Palatines!

 

Jump pack units can't be transported in the Storm Eagle unfortunately :(.

[GorgeousGoat]

 

Spartan's don't worry me so much as I have Storm Eagle and if a Spartan wants to bring units closer to my Palatines with Eidolon - yes please!!!

 

Having a lot of success with Jump Pack Palatines with Eidolon in a Storm Eagle:

- T2 blitz with shooting to open the metal bawkse or zoom closer to squishy units.

- T3 disembark and charge - I5 with mix of Power Weapons and Charnabal sabres and then Eidolon makes an easy win and then Sweep them up. 

- T4 Sweep up other units or their Warlord for the Maru Skara objective.

 

It's the Typhon that scares me - 7" of death with up to 48" range is too scary for my jetbikes and Palatines!

Jump pack units can't be transported in the Storm Eagle unfortunately .

 

I believe you may be mistaken on that sir, please see below as I have endeavoured to clarify this:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302972-storm-eagle-transport-rules/

[MorgothNL]

 

 

Spartan's don't worry me so much as I have Storm Eagle and if a Spartan wants to bring units closer to my Palatines with Eidolon - yes please!!!

 

Having a lot of success with Jump Pack Palatines with Eidolon in a Storm Eagle:

- T2 blitz with shooting to open the metal bawkse or zoom closer to squishy units.

- T3 disembark and charge - I5 with mix of Power Weapons and Charnabal sabres and then Eidolon makes an easy win and then Sweep them up. 

- T4 Sweep up other units or their Warlord for the Maru Skara objective.

It's the Typhon that scares me - 7" of death with up to 48" range is too scary for my jetbikes and Palatines!

 

Jump pack units can't be transported in the Storm Eagle unfortunately :(.

I believe you may be mistaken on that sir, please see below as I have endeavoured to clarify this:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302972-storm-eagle-transport-rules/

Hmm, that's very interesting since I believe 99% of the player say it can't, and no one has ever said otherwise after reading the rules, that I have heard of. It doesn't give any special rule in the Storm Eagle entry allowing it, and the basic rules are non debatable on the subject (just says jump infantry can't embark a transport unless stated otherwise). They have had 10 different books and pdf containing the Storm Eagle, and non have stated a special rule. I will therefor still not allow jump infantry in an Eagle unless I see something more official than just this link (although I would love it to be true!)