[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[Theredknight]

Mwahaha I will be able to model my herald with a fulgrim painting with a frame and a hard texture.

The primarch (or daemon) can be with his opposite in battle, how cool is that??

[Terminus]

Bonus points if you use real blood and feces and other general body fluids when you paint it. But you have to put the model in a hermetic jar so we don't have to smell it. :D

[Theredknight]

Na, purity seal would hide it haha

[Terminus]

Ugh, the more I think about it, the more the change of +1I in challenges to +1I when charging seems like a nerf rather than a boost. With mandatory challenges, it works out to the same in turn one, and turn two and onwards (if the combat lasts that long), it's either the same if there are no more challenges to be had, or straight worse if there are.

 

Dang.

[Theredknight]

We haven't seen the rules yet mate, maybe we get both?

No one has said anything about removing I bonus in challenges, or removing forced challenges yet!

[1ncarnadine]

We haven't seen the rules yet mate, maybe we get both?

No one has said anything about removing I bonus in challenges, or removing forced challenges yet!

 

Let me check.

 

....you get both. :)

[Pazuzu]

I've just ordered 15 more Kakophoni models and with the new RoW - welcome to 2 squads of 10, Dreadclaws and Orchestrators with Phoenix Spears.

 

18 Shots per unit at 42" (6" movement at relentless and 36" range to fire). 3's and then 2's to wound. AND you outrange all bolters and suspensor web weapons!

Against a MEQ squad of 3+, they will suffer 3 casualties unless the 2+ Sergeant tanks it (but if he dies, Ld drops by -1 anyway).

Assuming 3 normal marines die, and the Ld of 9 is dropped to 6 - and there's 58.33% chance they will fail. Incurring a further 3-4 further wounds.

 

Phoenix Spears because a challenge at I6 on the charge with AP2 - hitting on 3's (vs non-immunity to Fear and Fearless etc) and wounding on 3's. You should win the challenge, mulch a lot of the squad before they can even hit back as the rest are I5. 

 

One thing that may have been overlooked is that you would have Stubborn troops, and having been playing Dark Angels for years, I believe this to be an underrated perk!

Why 18 shots and not 20?  All 10 troops per unit have the noise weapon, no? 

[Terminus]

Huh, okay, so that's good.... and so it means Sgts are initiative 6 in challenges where they charged, and Characters are I7?  So overkill, lol, with phoenix spears your Sgts could put a serious hurting on even Praetor level characters. Fulgrim is I10 if he charges and challenges!  All the extra attacks!

 

 

 

We haven't seen the rules yet mate, maybe we get both?
No one has said anything about removing I bonus in challenges, or removing forced challenges yet!

 

Let me check.

 

....you get both.

Just to clarify, you get both the I bonus in challenges on top of the I bonus for charging, and martial pride is unchanged?

Edited February 12, 2016 by Terminus

[Slips]

Fulgrim doesn't have Legiones Astartes: Emperors Children so wouldnt get the benefits if its not in his own rules.

[1ncarnadine]

 

Just to clarify, you get both the I bonus in challenges on top of the I bonus for charging, and martial pride is unchanged?

 

Yeah. Martial Pride and Exemplars of War are, word-for-word, completely unchanged.

 

What changed is a 3rd rule called Flawless Execution was added, and that's the one that gives all LA(EC) +1 initiative when assaulting (but not for disordered charges).

[Theredknight]

Let's you down, do you have the legions in the age of darkness book?!

I'd heard there were very limited copies on the day

[1ncarnadine]

Let's you down, do you have the legions in the age of darkness book?!

I'd heard there were very limited copies on the day

 

Yeah, I got lucky and picked up one of the last few from the initial batch. Although I think they found more later in the day.

[Theredknight]

Lucky guy! Hopefully they won't be too long a wait so I can get my copy!

[Terminus]

I wounder if these are test changes given that the "real" big update isn't coming for a few more months yet?

[Theredknight]

Ok so managed to find something from a friend, the runour that any ec units in power armour can take Shriekers is false.

 

It's still only 'independent characters' that can take it. And it is against those in b2b contact.

 

Flawless execution is worded 'any turn in which a la.ec unit charges into combat, gains +1 initiative (that turn only) except if it is a disordered charge'

 

Otherwise our legion traits are the same as before.

 

But it's definitely a step up! If we get the charge off, that's great!!!

[Theredknight]

However our row allows any unit in power armour or art armour to take sonic shriekers at the value of half of the number 4. And of course kakophoni.

 

I'm so excited! I am playing a test game later on, and proxy kakophoni until my new ones arrive!!!

[1ncarnadine]

Ok so managed to find something from a friend, the runour that any ec units in power armour can take Shriekers is false.

 

It's still only 'independent characters' that can take it. And it is against those in b2b contact.

 

Flawless execution is worded 'any turn in which a la.ec unit charges into combat, gains +1 initiative (that turn only) except if it is a disordered charge'

 

Otherwise our legion traits are the same as before.

 

But it's definitely a step up! If we get the charge off, that's great!!!

 

the thing about any EC unit being able to take shriekers isn't totally false. It's part of the new RoW in Book VI that makes Kakophoni troops. 

 

That RoW also gives shriekers to errrrrybody (For a very very cheap cost)

Edited February 12, 2016 by LetsYouDown

[Theredknight]

Yep, I realised that and posted after

[Terminus]

Flawless Execution doesn't matter too much since 99% of the time whatever you charge will have something for you to challenge, so the rule is mostly wasted. And unless you're challenging a Centurion or above, I6 on the Sgt is probably overkill.  Still, it'll be nice when it does happen, and it does create somewhat of a catch 22.  Either have your Sgt or character or whatever smacked by three S5 AP2 hits before he gets to swing regardless of his weapon choice, or decline the challenge and have the whole unit smack you around.

 

Having faced Emperor's Children charges in the past, I would decline the challenge the first round and wait until the second to accept it when the phoenix lance guy is -1S +1AP and -1A and can just be popped like a zit with a power fist.  Now with the rest of the unit getting to swing first, I would not be as confident making that choice, although I guess it wouldn't matter vs. Phoenix Guard since they were always swinging first on the charge. The +1A on Sgt was very welcome, I just wish I could stick a chainfist in the unit.

[GorgeousGoat]

 

I've just ordered 15 more Kakophoni models and with the new RoW - welcome to 2 squads of 10, Dreadclaws and Orchestrators with Phoenix Spears.

 

18 Shots per unit at 42" (6" movement at relentless and 36" range to fire). 3's and then 2's to wound. AND you outrange all bolters and suspensor web weapons!

Against a MEQ squad of 3+, they will suffer 3 casualties unless the 2+ Sergeant tanks it (but if he dies, Ld drops by -1 anyway).

Assuming 3 normal marines die, and the Ld of 9 is dropped to 6 - and there's 58.33% chance they will fail. Incurring a further 3-4 further wounds.

 

Phoenix Spears because a challenge at I6 on the charge with AP2 - hitting on 3's (vs non-immunity to Fear and Fearless etc) and wounding on 3's. You should win the challenge, mulch a lot of the squad before they can even hit back as the rest are I5. 

 

One thing that may have been overlooked is that you would have Stubborn troops, and having been playing Dark Angels for years, I believe this to be an underrated perk!

Why 18 shots and not 20?  All 10 troops per unit have the noise weapon, no? 

 

The Orchestrators with Phoenix Spears... means they wouldn't be able to fire with the rest. I would always run Phoenix Spears on Kakophoni RoW as Troops now.. just so good for the challenges as discussed above. 

Edited February 13, 2016 by GorgeousGoat

[Theredknight]

The come with a cc weapon, the replace it with a spear, can still shoot!!

[Terminus]

I doubt this unit would be leaving their nice position to charge the enemy, so I don't really see the benefit of a phoenix spear. A regular power sword for the extra attack would be better. The model would also look a lot less silly than trying to balance a two-handed glaive and a double-bass guitar.

 

If they come across something, I think I would still rather just take overwatch shots against them. If you get lucky and kill something, you may also trigger bio-psychic shock, which should all count towards combat resolution.  Then you can still challenge where you will be effectively WS5 I5 anyway, now with three AP3 attacks.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Terminus

[01RTB01]

Mwahaha I will be able to model my herald with a fulgrim painting with a frame and a hard texture.

The primarch (or daemon) can be with his opposite in battle, how cool is that??

Sounds fab, have you any pictures please?

[Theredknight]

I doubt this unit would be leaving their nice position to charge the enemy, so I don't really see the benefit of a phoenix spear. A regular power sword for the extra attack would be better. The model would also look a lot less silly than trying to balance a two-handed glaive and a double-bass guitar.

 

If they come across something, I think I would still rather just take overwatch shots against them. If you get lucky and kill something, you may also trigger bio-psychic shock, which should all count towards combat resolution.  Then you can still challenge where you will be effectively WS5 I5 anyway, now with three AP3 attacks.

Depends what you want them to do. My kakophoni will push up to support the other units, blasting people and vehicles, and assaulting too. I'd like to take advantage of their stubborn and sonic shriekers (assuming they still have them) otherwise volkites would be better at standing about and shooting!

 

Mwahaha I will be able to model my herald with a fulgrim painting with a frame and a hard texture.

The primarch (or daemon) can be with his opposite in battle, how cool is that??

Sounds fab, have you any pictures please?

I'm having ideas about how this painting will be carried.. In the book it's described as life size, and a mirror image.. He's pretty big so couldn't be just a banner.. I was thinking some fulgrim fanboys carrying it on their backs or them shuffling along on hands and knees..very Angel exterminatus!

[Theredknight]

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g449/ben_fabz/Mobile%20Uploads/038070B9-0CD0-4AC3-8FBC-A8999DD732E6.png

 

The bottom one I was thinking for the frame?