[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[GorgeousGoat]

Power Sword on the Orchestrators it is then. 20 shots and even more hurt.

They can still get hot and kill themselves right?

[01RTB01]

Power Sword on the Orchestrators it is then. 20 shots and even more hurt.

They can still get hot and kill themselves right?

Yes, but they love it :)

 

I've got the book, happy days!

[Terminus]

 

I doubt this unit would be leaving their nice position to charge the enemy, so I don't really see the benefit of a phoenix spear. A regular power sword for the extra attack would be better. The model would also look a lot less silly than trying to balance a two-handed glaive and a double-bass guitar.

 

If they come across something, I think I would still rather just take overwatch shots against them. If you get lucky and kill something, you may also trigger bio-psychic shock, which should all count towards combat resolution.  Then you can still challenge where you will be effectively WS5 I5 anyway, now with three AP3 attacks.

Depends what you want them to do. My kakophoni will push up to support the other units, blasting people and vehicles, and assaulting too. I'd like to take advantage of their stubborn and sonic shriekers (assuming they still have them) otherwise volkites would be better at standing about and shooting!

Volkites would not be better at standing about and shooting, because I said nothing about standing about, and volkite squads are not relentless troop choices.  They are not very potent in melee with 1 attack a piece to be throwing them in melee. You are not really wasting stubborn and sonic shriekers, but if something does engage them, they give a little boost for them to survive until something meaner can back them up.  I mean, think about what you're saying.  "Wasting stubborn"?  So you are going to wade into combat with hopes to lose so you can say, "see? I lost half the unit, but I can still test on my full leadership. I DIDN'T WASTE STUBBORN! AHAHAHA!! *foam at mouth*" :P

 

Anyway, it doesn't really matter at the end, it's a 5 point difference and the performance difference is marginal.  I object mostly on a modelling level.  A power armored model with a lance and an instrument will inevitably look overloaded and stupid.  Terminators can barely pull it off.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Terminus

[jumping goat]

Now that it's looking like we might be able to take improved kakophoni as troops, what are people thinking of taking as their troops choices? Are people thinking of ditching good old 20 man tactical squads for squads of kakophoni, or going to mix it up? Edited February 14, 2016 by jumping goat

[Terminus]

20-man tactical squads were never really a good choice (except maybe for Night Lords and World Eaters), although they are perhaps better now for Emperor's Children (and particularly for those two Legions), but again that's only if they can get shriekers. 

 

I am curious about the new Kakophoni rite, but we need to see the full text. I was super stocked for the assault marine rite for the IIIrd, but it ended up being total crap even if they do get cheaper with the new book.

[1ncarnadine]

20-man tactical squads were never really a good choice (except maybe for Night Lords and World Eaters), although they are perhaps better now for Emperor's Children (and particularly for those two Legions), but again that's only if they can get shriekers. 

 

I am curious about the new Kakophoni rite, but we need to see the full text. I was super stocked for the assault marine rite for the IIIrd, but it ended up being total crap even if they do get cheaper with the new book.

 

The full text? ehhh. I won't even repeat it word for word, it's an insanely simple rite that's worded well.

 

Kakophoni may be taken as Troops and gain Relentless. Yes, that means they can be compulsory. Any infantry unit in power or artificer armor can take shriekers at the cost of uh... 2/5s of a meltabomb per model. All eligible models in a squad must be so equipped if this option is taken.

 

Downsides are you must be Traitor (no Rylanor onoooo), you can't take Space Marine allies, and any allies you do take get downgraded one on the allies chart. That is it.

[Terminus]

What? No odd quirks? No limitations? You don't have to bring 6 units of 6 or are now allowed to bring weapons with a higher strength than 5 because they "make too much noise and distract the band"?

 

I guess I'll need another 10 to go along with my book 6. :P

 

How are people rolling the dice? Different colors for each guy in the squad?

Edited February 14, 2016 by Terminus

[GorgeousGoat]

If I could take a unit of 20 Kakophoni then that would be my single troop entry for them. However, before even using 2 units of 10, I've got to build and paint them and then playtesting can happen!

 

However, using this RoW, I am already feeling a unit of 19 Tacticals with shriekers etc with Chaplain Consul in Spartan and a unit of 10 Kakophoni in Rhino. That will be the main core of the list. 

I think anything that gets to close to the unit of 19 Tacticals with extra cc weapon, hitting on 3's against MEQ in b2b and first on the charge with re-rolls to hit. Should be beating any other tacticals out there.

 

I am debating now whether to bring Phoenix Terminators back with Fulgrim for the 2,500pts+ games... Thoughts?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Eidolon, Jump Pack

 

Dual Grav Chainfist Contemptor Cortus, DDP

Dual Grav Chainfist Contemptor Cortus, DDP

 

Graviton Rapier 

 

Assault Marines, Power Swords, Phoenix Spear and Combat Shield, Meltabombs, Shriekers 308

Assault Marines, Power Swords, Phoenix Spear and Combat Shield, Meltabombs, Shriekers

Kakophoni x10

Kakophoni x10

 

Dreadclaw

Dreadclaw

Dreadclaw

 

HCB Predator

HCB Predator

HCB Predator

 

2998pts

 

Pod in turn 2 with Kakohoni to shred things that have been De-meched by the Grav (5HP possible first turn). Use the HCB (come on, FW, give it Ordnance) to help ping off HP from extreme range, or just try and keep things so that they cannot shoot at the Assault Marines. Not a game breaker, but one using a few of my favourite units. 

[01RTB01]

What? No odd quirks? No limitations? You don't have to bring 6 units of 6 or are now allowed to bring weapons with a higher strength than 5 because they "make too much noise and distract the band"?

I guess I'll need another 10 to go along with my book 6. :P

How are people rolling the dice? Different colors for each guy in the squad?

No quirks or drawbacks. Why would you roll per person shooting? No different to plasma squads. Roll for the lot and deal with overheats on a squad wide level.

 

Mate and I are starting a campaign next weekend. Starting with 2500 points. 20 kakophoni as the core, thereafter unsure. I've got 6100 to drop from somewhere...

[Terminus]

 

What? No odd quirks? No limitations? You don't have to bring 6 units of 6 or are now allowed to bring weapons with a higher strength than 5 because they "make too much noise and distract the band"?

I guess I'll need another 10 to go along with my book 6.

How are people rolling the dice? Different colors for each guy in the squad?

No quirks or drawbacks. Why would you roll per person shooting? No different to plasma squads. Roll for the lot and deal with overheats on a squad wide level.

 

Mate and I are starting a campaign next weekend. Starting with 2500 points. 20 kakophoni as the core, thereafter unsure. I've got 6100 to drop from somewhere...

That's a terrible way to resolve gets hot, because you end up potentially losing more guys than you should. What if one of them rolls snake eyes and gets two gets hot results?  Your way you could lose two guys when only one should go. 

 

Hesh has the right idea, I'm looking at assault marines rather than despoilers, especially if/when they get cheaper. The assault rite may be a bust from what I see so far (no drop pods, snapshots to only enemies within 12", etc.), but they should be quite good with WS5/I5 in the Kakophoni rite (which seems to be a good default choice if it truly has no restrictions/drawbacks).  I'm also considering them in Recon Company with attached Vigilators, so they get 4+ cover in the open top of 1.  Maybe even go for the rare carapace vigilator for move through cover so they can land wherever?

[01RTB01]

 

 

What? No odd quirks? No limitations? You don't have to bring 6 units of 6 or are now allowed to bring weapons with a higher strength than 5 because they "make too much noise and distract the band"?

I guess I'll need another 10 to go along with my book 6. :P

How are people rolling the dice? Different colors for each guy in the squad?

 

No quirks or drawbacks. Why would you roll per person shooting? No different to plasma squads. Roll for the lot and deal with overheats on a squad wide level.

Mate and I are starting a campaign next weekend. Starting with 2500 points. 20 kakophoni as the core, thereafter unsure. I've got 6100 to drop from somewhere...

That's a terrible way to resolve gets hot, because you end up potentially losing more guys than you should. What if one of them rolls snake eyes and gets two gets hot results?  Your way you could lose two guys when only one should go. 

 

You mean the correct way... They're single wound models. Same as when a unit is shot. If you have a ten man unit and you have 20 wounds inflicted on you, you don't roll ten pairs of dice and do it on an individual basis. That isn't how the game works. Ultimately my end point will always be its toy soldiers and in fairness your way seems to be grasping at the straws a little? If there's a rule to contradict fine, but I don't think there is

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

 

All of the models in the unit that are firing the selected weapon shoot at the same time, regardless of whether or not all of the dice are rolled together.

 

Coloured dice is the easiest way to do that. Can't often be bothered though XD. It often takes just as long to turn around get out each individual pair of dice than to pick up 2 dice at time and throw.

[Terminus]

I have honestly never encountered anyone who mass-rolls gets hot weapons, and I've been playing across six different states since before that rule existed. Shows just how different this game is depending on where you go.

 

I've used colored dice for my IG and Skitarii, where there are usually at most 3 plasma weapons, but picking out 10 different colored pairs for a full unit of Kakophoni is way too much hassle. I guess quickest is to roll attacks individually, putting successful hits aside and resolving gets hot on the spot, then resolving all the hits together.

[01RTB01]

I'll stick to rolling 20 dice to hit, any ones I'll roll all together as armour saves, then all wound rolls. Arguably quicker. That said, Each to their own, I'm sure we could discuss dice rolling somewhere else. Ultimately, it doesn't matter and I don't think anyone here is bothered?

 

Personally I'm just grateful for the updates. Anyone else played the new rules and had any joy?

[dark_elf]

I would be interested in seeing anyone's experience with the new RoW.

[01RTB01]

I would be interested in seeing anyone's experience with the new RoW.

I played it before release based on presumption. My kakophoni were excellent (2x10 man squads). Due to my model collection and effectiveness, I'll not be running any other rite :)

[Caustic63]

Another month has passed, and the second round of the 30K Escalation League has resolved itself. Once again I was able to get my painting projects fully complete by the deadline after a lot of hard work. Getting all these models done in a timely manner has been challenging for me, given my slow painting rate, but I look forward to the end result - my name engraved on the first ever 30K Nemesis Crown and a chance to display my army in the store display case. My absolute perfection will be on display for all to see! Some more pics:

Current Point Totals:

Painting Points:

Painted (3 colours and based) - 4/4 points

Washes / Highlights - 2/2 points

Sand/Grass/special details used on the base -1/2 points (no special details)

Gaming Points:

Play game at correct points/warscoll count level - 3/3 points

fully painted models - 2/2 points

Win - 2/2 points

Hobby Points:

Hand Painted Designs on Predator - 3/3 points

This month's total = 17/18 points

Total = 33/36 points

A few weeks ago I encountered an Alpha Legion player in the league and challenged him to a game. Upon arrival to 30K escalation league day, I greeted him and we began setting up immediately. We rolled "The Scouring" for the mission and "Hammer and Anvil" for the deployment type (so Football field deployment, and six objectives with values of 1,2,2,3,3,4). The list he was running looked like this:

Alpha Legion: Mutable Tactics = Counter-attack

Rite of War: Chosen Duty

Autilon Skorr (Delagatus) Warlord Trait: Master of the Ambush

Legion Tactical Veterans (x10) w Lightning Claw/Power Dagger Sergeant, Vexilla, Sniper USR

Legion Tactical Veterans (x10) w Lightning Claw/Power Dagger Sergeant, Vexilla, Sniper USR

Legion Tactical Veterans (x10) w Lightning Claw/Power Dagger Sergeant, Vexilla, Sniper USR

Contemptor Mortis w Kheres Assault Cannons

Diemos Vindicator Laser Destroyer

Legion Predator Executioner w Machine Spirit & Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Legion Heavy Support Squad (x5) w Missile Launchers

His plan was to Infiltrate the Veterans & Skorr and out shoot me at close range. I rolled on the Command Traits table and ended up with Target Priority. After a brief setup he got first turn and we began. Without going into the finer details of the battle, I ended up with weaker objectives and so I advanced forward. The bolter exchanges between ruins ultimately came out 50-50 in terms of casualties, which proved disastrous for him since he had put so many more points into his Veterans then I had my Tacticals. His Vindicator spent 3 turns shooting at my Predator with a hard angle 3+ cover save before landing a lucky shot and blowing it up, but by that point my Javelin had shown up and erased his Executioner through back armour shots while remaining concealed from his deadly Missiles. My left side Tacticals with the Delagatus spent two turns running up the side of the board and finally made it into combat with one of his vets, wiping them out with good Phoenix Spear rolls before their 4 attacks apiece could do any damage. Following my Mortis destroying his in a really intense 1v1 duel, and the arrival of my Plasma bikes wiping out his Warlord and his squad he conceded the game.

So with this month out of the way, I must now focus on round #3 with a points level of 2000 points and a due date of March 12th, 2016. My next army list was supposed to be Maru Skara, but given the power of the 3rd Company Elite Rite of War and the chance to dust off my previously unused Kakophoni I have changed it. Having the ability to massively outshoot my enemy while also being able to outfight him with Emperor's Children elite units (and basic ones with Sonic Shriekers) where it matters will make a huge difference to my overall strategy. Not having my Javelins and Outriders guarenteed to show up on Turn 2 is a small sacrifice to make when I no longer have to take a Champion, and I've replaced my lacklustre Tacticals with a more specialized source of sonic gunnery! That being said I already have 20 painted Tacticals that I would effectively need to set aside to make this happen (plus only 10 Kakophoni models atm) so I think I'll strike a happy medium and go for one of each.

RoW: 3rd Company Elite

HQ:

Lord Commander Eidolon (joins Tacticals or Kakophoni, whichever makes sense)

> Jump Pack

Legion Centurion (joins Tacticals)

> Consul: Chaplain (Power Maul)

> Phoenix Power Spear, Sonic Shrieker

> Artificer Armour, MBs, Combat Shield

TROOPS:

Kakphoni Squad (x10)

> Orchestrator w Phoenix Spear, MBs

Legion Tactical Squad (x13)

> Sergeant w Power Spear, MBs

> Legion Vexilla

> Sonic Shriekers

ELITES:

Legion Terminator Squad (x5)

> Grenade Harness

> Tartarus Terminator Armour

> Combi-Plasma (x5)

> Power Sword (x3)

> Chainfist (x2)

Anvillus Dreadclaw Drop Pod

Contemptor Mortis Dreadnaught

> Two Kheres Assault Cannons

Apothecarion Detachment (Tacticals)

> Augury Scanner

> Power Sword

> Sonic Shrieker

FAST ATTACK:

Javelin Attack Speeder (x2)

> Cyclone Missile Launcher

> Hunter Killer Missiles (x4)

Legion Outriders (x5)

> TL Plasmagun (x5)

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Legion Strike Predator

> Executioner Plasma Cannon

> Heavy Bolter Sponsons

ARMY TOTAL = 2000pts

My plan for the army has evolved considerably in accordance with the new rules, though the basics remain the same. The Outriders and Javelins outflank to give me some side armour shots or to root out embedded gun line units. The Terminators in the Dreadclaw form part of this aggresive punch, and are my anti-vehicle specialists. Anything they can't kill with Plasma in side/rear armour is getting charged with Chainfsts instead.

[jumping goat]

Great looking army!

[01RTB01]

Nice looking army caustic. :) I'm about to begin a narrative campaign vs salamanders. First game is 2500. Here's the list:

"""Legate Sulla"" [Consul Delegatus] + Charnabal Sabre + Artificer armour + Sonic Shrieker + Refractor"

"""The Hastati Primus"" 15 man tac squad + extra combat weapons + vox + vexilia + ""Decanus Aurelian"" + artificer + power weapon"

 

"""Chaplain Parmenides"" + Artificer armour + Jump Pack + Sonic shrieker"

"""The Phoenician's Pride""10 Palatine Blades + ""Prefector Cyrus"" + 3 Phoenix Power Spears + Jump Packs + Sonic shriekers"

 

""" Squad Parthica"" 5 Tartaros Terminators ""Sergeant Maximus"""

1 x Combi-plasma + Phoenix Power Spear (Vet Sergeant)

1x Plasma Blaster + Chainfist

2 x Combi-bolters + 2 Power fists

1 x Combi-plasma + power fist

 

"""The Enlightened"" - Kakophoni"" 9 Chora + 1 Orchestrator"

 

"""The Dreamweavers"" Kakophoni 9 Chora + 1 Orchestrator"

 

"""Pax Perfectus"" Land Raider Proteus + pintle mounted heavy bolter + armoured ceramite"

 

"""The Fury of Chemos"" Achilles Alpha Land Raider"

 

"""Sarissa"" - Sicaran Venator + Heavy Bolter sponsons"

 

"""Balistarius Omega"" 2 Quad Mortars with shatter shells"

 

Everything named and ready to roll. Looking forward to it and we're including progression as per book 4/5 for characters/ units - I can't remember what's included! Delegatus deputising for vairosean - eidolon to wade in for wave 2.

[Theredknight]

That table can be tough to play down lengthways, (I own one too!) especially if you have to move up, it's just a long arc for a sicaran or typhon to sit!

[Brother Dallo]

To people who have the book, how does the EC rite interact, if the EC are taken as an allied detachment? I believe RAW, that the EC drop one level in the allies matrix, but I'm not sure. The wording doesn't really lend itself to using the EC rite as an allied detachment (with militia, if that makes any difference)

 

Cheers.

 

Dallo

[Caillum]

Yeah, Allies are not an ideal option. Works just as you said. Militia comes under "Imperial Army", so they're Distrusted Allies in the RoW. Actually, so do Mechanicum and Questoris Knights, so no scoring units there.

 

Given it says "allies" rather than "Allied Detachment", then I think it'll be the same if the EC are the Primary or the Allied Detachment.

[1ncarnadine]

To people who have the book, how does the EC rite interact, if the EC are taken as an allied detachment? I believe RAW, that the EC drop one level in the allies matrix, but I'm not sure. The wording doesn't really lend itself to using the EC rite as an allied detachment (with militia, if that makes any difference)

 

Cheers.

 

Dallo

 

It doesn't specify primary or secondary detachment like some rites, so I assume the downgrade & no space marine allies works both ways.

Edited February 18, 2016 by LetsYouDown

[Theredknight]

I'd say that, but our bonuses compared to other rites outweigh the allies.

I mean just because other space marines don't like their nipples tweaked, no need to spoil our fun!!