[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[Terminus]

"Tea" leaves. Sure.

 

At least you're in the right Legion thread for that sort of thing.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Terminus

[Theredknight]

Haha welcome to our opulent pre slaneeshi boudoir

[Caustic63]

Has anyone tried to make an Emperor's Children list out of the new generic Rites of War? Surely there are some decent combos out there besides Kakophoni as Troops. As a supporter of the Maru Skara RoW and highly mobile lists even prior to the update, the Outriders/Jetbikes RoW really sounds appealing to me. It could be a golden opportunity to clear these units out of the Fast Attack slot and make room for more selections there such as Javelins, a Primaris Lightning and a Dreadclaw. Does anyone know what the restrictions are on this particular RoW? My book is in the mail so I won't be able to play around with this type of army for a another week or so.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Predato Strike Squadron; less characters = less force challenges. Fast Rhinos coukd help if there was anything worthwhile to transport. (There isn't). Elites Sicaran means less Palatines or Phoenix Terms.

 

Primarchs Chosen; Cheapest Primarch run without a 120pt Consul Tax. About the best you can get. No real penalties aside from losong Fulgrim.

 

Legion Recon; Recon Squads are garbage. Does FA else for the rest of the list. Lose heavy hitters unless podding in dreads. Which you can do anyway without losing 160pts additional tax.

 

Zone Mortalis Assault Force hampers ability to get into assault, ie no Drop Pods. Ignore.

 

Fury of the Ancients; Dreadhead list. Give up VP's for losing the dreads you already take. Lose Sieze. Get gibbed by Grav first turn, give up 4VP's first turn. Pass.

 

Sacrificial Offering; another list forcing you to take less EC. Bonus, I guess? No Deep Strike? Er, no.

 

Drop Assault Vanguard; take Assault Squads? When these drop in price? *Borat Thumbs gif here* badly worded though, depends on whether enemy models within 12" snap shot, or enemy models within 12" only snap shot when shooting against the assault squsd within 12". Doesn't affect JP palatines. Missing Move Through Cover. Needs to have some Nuncio Voxes around as well. Eh. Not sold. Nice concept, execution naff.

 

Outcast Sons; n/a, not from whitelist of Loyalists. If they were? Binus! Gain free Scout! What the :cuss are infiltration moves? And why do they occur after Scouting? DO YOU KNOW HOW TO EVEN PKAY THE GAME FW?

 

Brethren of Iron; no arlatax option. Ignore.

 

Orphans of Betrayal; Hatred at all times and also FNP4+ in a challenge. Good. It is what Immune to Fear from own Primarch (and its not even functional as it requires Primarch to have Legiones Adtartes (X); guess what they don't have). Is this seriously a rule? Seriously? As in, there is book space taking this up. Good god.

 

Yeah. I think FW did this on purpose just to see me implode on their idiocy.

[Theredknight]

To sum it up then hesh 'no' lol

 

An infiltration move?surely they mean infiltrate? Weird..

I love the idea of dread list, but 1vp per dread?no thanks! I have 9 legion dreads and 2 contemptor, maybe il try for a laugh.

[Slips]

If grav is an issue for Dreadhead just Pod in 1-2 Grav Flux Leviathans to Insta-gib the Rapiers / Breachers and/or Grant Shrouded for things being shot through the Dreadnought Drop Pod.

 

Hell, if you wanted to, you could spread out a few dreads across your available slots and get a bunch of Dreads-in-pods dropping down to cover your Foot Dreads.

 

Losing 1Vp per Dread is a kicker but the kill power a fair few of them pack kinda justifies it especially with how customizable they are.

 

However, it'll only really get strong as an Army in the 3k+ Range, I feel, where you start having Target Saturation.

[Theredknight]

I think you would have to invest in a lot of dreads!

 

I always forget about leviathans.but yes you are right slips, see the convo of 'what to arm them with' grav and claw was it in the end?

Without straying too much is there any particular legion which the dreads benefit from? (I'm thinking iron hands here)

Edited February 25, 2016 by Theredknight

[Slips]

Iron Hands benefit the most since they can buy Blessed Autosimulacra but get it free with HotG and Ferrus would give them IWND.

 

As it stands, pretty much none of the legions buff dreads in a meaningful way so its just a matter of Color Scheme and theme at that point.

[Terminus]

The above is probably the most significant dreadnought buff. Alpha Legion's Dynat gives improved vehicle damage rolls and and sweeps in enemy DZ. Blood Angels get assault cannons. Dark Angels have that rite that gives them tank hunter.

[Theredknight]

To keep you all keen, here's a few shots of some terminators I finished up. And my wip Fabius conversion (a primus/apothecary) thought it would go well with his 'adaptions' running about in the row. Kakophoni to do soon!!

 

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g449/ben_fabz/Mobile%20Uploads/011614C1-5F39-4B3A-A6FA-1BE6FEACE794.jpg

 

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g449/ben_fabz/Mobile%20Uploads/0ECB2D0F-CD09-445B-9787-408E3835BD2C.jpg

 

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g449/ben_fabz/Mobile%20Uploads/4ACD6CC4-2937-439D-8FE0-683402F56E96.jpg

 

http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g449/ben_fabz/Mobile%20Uploads/243C1065-6774-42B0-8E3D-2F1F1B451BB2.jpg

[Caustic63]

That's a really interesting Fabius Bile conversion! You should wash the white with Earthcoat wash... it gives a bit of a dirty appearance which may or may not be what you want, but it has the benefit of bringing out the recesses making the model appear more detailed. Call it a bit of a 'dirty' trick.

 

I'm currently working on Noise Marines converted into Kakophoni for my 3rd Company Elites, as well as getting Eidolon and a Dreadclaw painted up for next month.

[01RTB01]

I've just ordered 3 boxes of raptors to make 3rd company elite breachers with "human shields". Very excited breachers with sonic shriekers, melta guns and a paints scheme to melt your face :) what do you guys reckon?

[Caustic63]

I've just ordered 3 boxes of raptors to make 3rd company elite breachers with "human shields". Very excited breachers with sonic shriekers, melta guns and a paints scheme to melt your face what do you guys reckon?

 

I'm interested to see your conversions... do you plan to use Cultists as Boarding Shields? Breacher Squads are intended to be the 'tougher' version of Tacticals that resists charges from powerful foes and performs better in Zone Mortalis settings due to the close confines but I wouldn't take them in a normal Horus Heresy game. This is mainly because builds based around Assault Squads and aggressive play are not common in the current meta, and these are countered the best by Breachers. Not to mention the penalties of Hardened Armour take away from the benefits of Crusader for Emperor's Children (though some could say EC Breachers mitigate these drawbacks better then other legions).

 

Look at it this way: Neglecting Rites of War and more specialized builds, your basic rock paper scissors equation in the Troops slot is:

 

Breachers >>> Assault Marines >>> Tactical Squads >>> Breachers

 

Breachers will likely beat Assault Marines since they have defensive grenades, and protection against the embedded power weapons. Assault Marines will likely beat Tactical Squads because they have the mobility to charge, defeat them soundly in combat and then sweep. Tactical Squads beat Breachers because they have more bodies and Fury of the Legion which means they have more torrent firepower that the Hardened Armour does nothing to mitigate.

 

Since Assault Squads are overcosted, and the current rules favour shooting over close combat by default, the meta leans towards ranged engagements which does not favour the use of slower Breachers.

[Theredknight]

Earthcoat wash? I don't think Iv seen that just been using gw colours. Is it a fw one?

 

Oh caustic I gave a great base for him. A marine begging not to be helped. He has lost his legs and half an arm

Edited February 26, 2016 by Theredknight

[Caustic63]

Earthcoat wash? I don't think Iv seen that just been using gw colours. Is it a fw one?

Oh caustic I gave a great base for him. A marine begging not to be helped. He has lost his legs and half an arm

I meant Agrax Earthshade from Games Workshop. Its my go-to shading tool for shiny metal paints and white paints. As long as you don't overdo it, it captures a nice depth while making the colour appear more natural as opposed to cartoony. Like this:

Note that the front left Phoenix Terminator has been shaded with Druchii Violet. I was experimenting with shading, and decided Earthshade worked better.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Caustic63

[Theredknight]

Aggrax you mean? Lol

If you give them a 50/50 guilliman glaze and Lahaina medium youl get a really rich dark people like mine. Also hides the highlights better.

The whit on my pads of weathered with some chips and undercoat layers. So it breaks it up nicely.

I might give the loincloths a hit of 50/50 sepia though.

[nightwrench]

2500pts. Emperor's Children VS Raven Guard: A Case Study (Part Two)

based on this Raven Guard list: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/316419-rg-2500-decap-strike/

For this next part I've decided to use the dice included in the program I used to make these maps (called VASSAL 40K).

My Raven Guard opponent opens up with all his firepower and causes a significant number of casualties. To try and mimic a real game, I counted both my Tactical Squads as having 5+ cover saves since if I knew an alpha strike was coming I'd want to keep them protected. This doesn't make a difference versus the Typhon but it does against the Plasma and Meltaguns the Vets/Mor Deythans are about to unleash. I also applied the same logic to his Rapiers, since they are stationary and very likely to end up in terrain at the start of the game. I also counted the Typhon as scoring more or less a direct hit on the left squad.

Both Raven Guard Tacticals Rapid Fire with Bolters = 27 hits = 13 wounds = 4.5 failed armour saves = 3 wounds that make it through FNP

Typhon hits 6 models = 5 wounds ignoring Cover, Armour and FNP

Both Mor Deythan Plasma Squads fire their Combi-Plasmas = 19 hits = 16 wounds = 11 wounds after cover saves = 7 wounds after FNP

The Raven Guard Veterans take Bolter fire at close range due to Augary Scanner. 30 shots = 20 hits = 10 wounds = 3 wounds suffered after armour saves. They shoot 3 Meltaguns at the Executioner and hit twice, scoring a glance and a penetrating hit versus AV11. The penetrating hit inflicts Shaken. Executioner loses 2 HP

Graviton Cannons fire at the Contemptor, scoring two direct hits (and one complete miss) which glance via Haywire and remove 2 HP

All units are assumed to pass their morale checks, with the Tacticals having Vexillas

As predicted he does a lot of damage, however I got lucky that I didn't lose the Predator to the Veterans. Now that he has expended his tidal wave of first turn benefits for being Raven Guard, it's time for me to start inflicting the pain back at him. In this position he has three large units of marines that have very little combat ability standing right in front of me, and two large blast support units who will struggle to find good targets now that the fight as become so up close and personal. It's time to hit back.

I know that I have the advantage in combat, and given that the enemy is so close the benefits of engaging far exceed any advantage that could be gained by pure shooting. However, I don't want to bite off more then I can chew by Assaulting both Tactical squads - so I'll go for the west one and leave the east to get shot at/figure out what to do. The Mor Deythans have blown their load already, so they are now just effectively bolter marines with BS5. I can afford to ignore them in favour of more pressing targets. One of those is the Veterans squad - with two Meltaguns, Meltabombs and Tank Hunters I can't afford to let these guys run loose. I'll charge them and see if the Mor Deythans decide to come in later. I move the Contemptor slightly forward to ensure the 24" no go zone for his aircraft is as intrusive and annoying as possible. Next, I'll drop my Terminators into has backline. With everything he has there being large blast, it's going to be difficult for him to deal with them without causing friendly fire or losing valuable units. Maybe they'll stick around long enough to start Chainfisting his Typhon. The Executioner smokes up to stay alive for another day, while the Sicarian shoots at his Artillery to soften them up along with the Termie Combi-Meltas.

The west Emperor's Children Tactical Squad shoots the west RG Tactical squad, and then follows it up with a charge. The Champion easily wins his challenge, and the ECs win 5 wounds to 1 wound. The RG Tacticals break and run, and then get swept.

The Contemptor opens fire on the other RG Tactical Squad and performs well, scoring 3 Rends and 2 wounds via failed armour saves.

The east Emperor's Children Tactical Squad kills one Veteran via Bolt Pistols, then assaults the unit causing 2 casualties to his none. The Veterans pass their morale check.

The Terminators and Sicarian shoot at the Graviton Rapiers, killing two crew and wounding one gun. A decent showing.

So it's the end of Turn 1 in our hypothetical game. Already the Raven Guard player has a number of problems to deal with, but fortunately for him he has reserves and Maun to ensure they show up. Now the question remains about where to deploy them.

I'll put together a part three focusing on "out-outflanking" my opponent, and how to make good decisions with your Maru Skara Hidden Blade!

Apologize for posting on an old post but between work and life I had to take a few months off of gaming which includes reading forums because then I want to paint and play and I had no time with work.

They are flamers not plasma guns. A person asked that question I never responded. I honestly doubt I would have even started the tac marines on the board because they do not hit hard and they grab obj. The vets are not getting out turn one. It is a dreadclaw they can't they will get out turn 2 and shoot and multi assault both tanks if they are close enough with the melta bombs.

The fighters do not have to worry about your contemptor. You moved it to close. Mann with pinpoint DS them outside of your arc. You cannot pivot with interceptor. I would try to keep the javeline out at tha point because they are not necessary.

The mor squads would each go after a side and flamer your squads. It is brutal. I have wiped out 20 man blob squads with a decap strike with 7 combi flamers and 3 melta gun shots. If they live the get back in the rhino next turn.

The typhon will move when necessary it has a 36 in threat range. It also thunderblitzes very well. Shooting at the grav cannons in cover is a pain. Mann typically deploys with them in ruins and it is a 3+ cover save.

So I am sick of painting black and grey and white. I want to paint purple.

I appreciate the hypothetical game. I wish I was on the forums as we could have gone back and forth. RG is my good guy list. I am thinking EC Will be my traitor side.

[Terminus]

Uhh... I have no idea where this thread just went. :P

[Charlo]

Due to the fact the models are awesome, now up to scratch in rules and EC are overall ace in sorely tempted...

 

Could an army of just massed Kakaphoni work? With armour support of course.

[01RTB01]

Due to the fact the models are awesome, now up to scratch in rules and EC are overall ace in sorely tempted...

Could an army of just massed Kakaphoni work? With armour support of course.

Short answer, yes!

[Terminus]

Yes, the strength of the Legions is in the armor and artillery, and the new relentless kakophoni are basically relentless artillery.

 

So if you wanted to cheese it out, something like this:

 

HQ: whatever

Elites: Thudd Rapiers with sunder and phosphex

Elites: Thudd Rapiers with sunder and phosphex

Elites: Grav Rapiers

Elites: Grav Rapiers

Troops: 8 Kakophoni with artificer and sword on sgt in a rhino x3

Heavy Support: pair of Vindicator laser destroyers

Heavy Support: Sicarian Venator

Heavy Support: Deredeo

 

That's like 2300-2400 points, leaving room for an HQ of your choice. Of course, why are you even playing Emperor's Children at this point? :D

[helterskelter]

One Hq gotta be a siege breaker for those tasty phosphex shells. Looks suitably silly. :p

[01RTB01]

One Hq gotta be a siege breaker for those tasty phosphex shells. Looks suitably silly. :p

Not any more :p book 6 made quad mortars even better with upgrade option of phospex...

 

Ignore me, I'm talking out of what I'm sat on, sorry!

Edited February 27, 2016 by 01RTB01

[Charlo]

Fulgrim, Phoenix Terms, lots of Kakaphoni and then artillery. Nice.

 

Kakaphoni could work on the charge too, can you give the Sarge a spear?

[01RTB01]

Fulgrim, Phoenix Terms, lots of Kakaphoni and then artillery. Nice.

Kakaphoni could work on the charge too, can you give the Sarge a spear?

You could but I wouldn't waste the points :)