[HH1.0] Emperor's Children Tactica

[Lord Asvaldir]

It surprises me the lack of love for this Legion potential. As a member of the loyalist IIIrd, it has a high place in my heart (ignoring degenerate traitors), and I believe the Maru Skara can be the best RoW if used smartly.

 

- The ability to bring 3 guaranteed reserves in turn 2 makes all the problems associated with bringing in flyer/outflanking support obsolete, and our higher I at charge plus move speed is brilliant.

 

Think about 3 lightnings with Krakens always arriving in turn 2 without wasting any points in Damocles, characters and being unaffected by any legion's or Proteus shenanigans.

 

A list centered around Fulgrim + retinue in a Spartan, with 3 guaranteed lightning krakens coming on turn 2, or 2 lightning krakens and a storm eagle with 20 tacticals or 3 javelin land speeders supported by jetbike praetor/champion with a retinue of sky hunter jetbikes or jetbike command squad is pretty amazing.

 

Open Blade:

- Fulgrim with Phoenix terminators & Primus Medicae in a Spartan

- Jetbike champion with retinue of Sky Hunters

- 19 man tac squad & apothecary

- Contemptor

 

Hidden Blade turn 2:

- Storm Eagle with 19 man tac squad & apothecary, lascannons and multi melta

- 2x lightning interceptors fully loaded

 

I'm sure this can be fit in around 2,5k points and is pretty brutal. Plus also, if you happen to play pre-heresy, the contemptor can be Rylanor and then basically you have guaranteed victory in assaults and the best sweeping advance troops in game.

 

I do agree that Mara Suka is really undervalued by a lot of players and it has a lot of potential (though 3rd company elite is still better), however 20 tacticals coming in a storm eagle is hardly brutal, and 2-3 lightning sounds like overkill. I think Mara Suka is better utilized by units which really benefit from outflanking like javelins fulled loaded with HK missiles and multi meltas, or veterans/seekers with combi plasma. Course some of those units already can outflank, but the assurance that they are guaranteed to come on turn 2 with no reserve rolls is still pretty handy. 

[Marshal Loss]

Not tactics related, but I spoke to FW today and the EC transfer sheet has been discontinued, with a new one on the way in the (hopefully) near future

 

Tactics related: agree with Asvaldir, tacticals in a storm eagle are a weak unit in an overpriced transport. 2x Lightning is overkill, and I don't think a Phoenix Guard deathstar with Fulgrim is a good idea

[ja_147]

Can you have the tacticals in the storm eagel. As wasn't it chosen to be part of the Mara Skara?  

[Jackalwolf]

Yes you could have them since you select the Storm Eagle as a Fast Attack choice for Maru Skara and the tacticals happen to be inside. On using them though it  was just a sample since they're very mobile, can grab an objective, won't attract too much firepower and the Eagle can go to combat duties after deployment on objective.

 

 

Not tactics related, but I spoke to FW today and the EC transfer sheet has been discontinued, with a new one on the way in the (hopefully) near future

 

Tactics related: agree with Asvaldir, tacticals in a storm eagle are a weak unit in an overpriced transport. 2x Lightning is overkill, and I don't think a Phoenix Guard deathstar with Fulgrim is a good idea

 

Hey Marshal long time no speak! Why do you think Fulgrim + Phoenix + Primus Medicae isn't a good deathstar? The only problems I see they can face is heavy armor but as you mentioned two lightnings + something else outflanking with lasers and or multi melta on turn 2 is overkill so I wouldn't expect anything to be alive to block them in a combat where they can't hurt  the enemy

 

EDIT: And what would you think is the perfect complement to two lightnings? I just like the imagery of two lightnings flanking something in a perfect surgical strike.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Grieux

[Jackalwolf]

Agh you are all evil people. Now I'm back to list building for my EC which can only mean resin purchases...

 

What are your thoughts on this list? Main flaw I see it's light in objective grabbers but remember all these painful goodies only occupy 2500 points!

 

 

(2500pts)

 

HQ (165pts)

Legion Centurion (165pts)

• [Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Bolter (45pts), Legiones Astartes, Melta Bombs (5pts), Phoenix Spear (20pts), Power Armour, Refractor Field (10pts)]

 

 

Elites (900pts)

Apothecarion Detachment (90pts) [Legiones Astartes]

• Legion Apothecary (45pts)
• Legion Apothecary (45pts)

 

Legion Contemptor Dreadnought (190pts)

• [Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons (15pts), Searchlight and Smoke Launchers]

 

Phoenix Terminator Squad (620pts) [Legiones Astartes, Pheonix Champion, 4x Phoenix Terminators (160pts)]

• Legion Spartan Assault Tank (355pts) [Dozer Blade (5pts), Flare Shield (45pts), Legiones Astartes, Quad Lascannon Sponsons, Searchlight and Smoke Launchers, Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter]

 

 

Troops (390pts)

 

Legion Tactical Squad (195pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines (90pts), Legiones Astartes]

• Additional Wargear (40pts) [Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades (30pts), Bolters, Legion Vexilla (10pts)]
• Legion Tactical Sergeant (30pts) [Artificer Armour (10pts), Bolter, Melta Bombs (5pts), Phoenix Spear (15pts)]

 

Legion Tactical Squad (195pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines (90pts), Legiones Astartes]

• Additional Wargear (40pts) [Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades (30pts), Bolters, Legion Vexilla (10pts)]
• Legion Tactical Sergeant (30pts) [Artificer Armour (10pts), Bolter, Melta Bombs (5pts), Power Fist (15pts)]

 

 

Fast Attack (665pts)

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (175pts) [Additional Wargear, Legiones Astartes, Multi-melta (10pts), 3x Space Marine Sky Hunters (105pts)]

• Sky Slayer Sergeant Upgrade (30pts) [bolt Pistol, Phoenix Spear (15pts)]

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (245pts)

• [battle Servitor Control (15pts), Ground-tracking Auguries (10pts), 2x Kraken Penetrator Heavy missile (70pts), Legiones Astartes, Phosphex bomb cluster (15pts), Twin-Linked Lascannon]

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (245pts) 

• [battle Servitor Control (15pts), Ground-tracking Auguries (10pts), 2x Kraken Penetrator Heavy missile (70pts), Legiones Astartes, Phosphex bomb cluster (15pts), Twin-Linked Lascannon]

 

 

Lord of War

 

Fulgrim the Illuminator with Firebrand (380)

 

 

 

Of course it's a Maru Skara representing the good days before the fall.

 

Open blade:

• Spartan with Phoenix and Fulgrim
• Contemptor besides it
• 2x tactical squads with 1 apo each taking cover and running fast
• Champion with Sky Hunters

 

Hidden blade:

• 2x Lightnings 

 

Pretty self explanatory, as soon as the two lightnings auto arrive in turn 2 any heavy armor goes poof. Then the tacticals come out of cover to grab objectives and the Spartan plus the jetbikes charge something.

 

I've added a phospex cluster in each lightning for funsies in case someone brings infantry blobs.

 

Main risks:

• 2 tac squads getting blown in turn 1 fking up my objectives. For that they have the apos for a bit more resilience but I could drop the apo and beef them up to 15 men each
• Lightnings getting shot down with interceptor fire before they can unload their nasty payload. Ideally I'd try to take out in turn 1 anything extremely dangerous for them like a Deredeo by focusing my Spartan and multi melta on jetbikes against it but ah well it's a risk I'll have to live with Could also swap the kheres in the contemptor for a lascannon to try and increase odds of taking off dangerous anti air in turn 1.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Grieux

[Marshal Loss]

Hi mate! Ironically I was hoping somebody had some ideas for Phoenix Guard on just the last page, but alas.

 

On the deathstar:

 

They feel like a waste of points. Including the Spartan, it's ~1360 points if a 10 man squad, 1160 if a 5 man squad. Most equivalent deathstars with a Primarch are going to be able to beat them in a fight, because after the first turn you're hitting with power swords and only have a 5+ invul. After the first turn it's just going to be Fulgrim hitting away while his bodyguards sit back slapping enemy Terminators impotently hoping they live long enough for Fulgrim to kill everything in the enemy army. And they're not a particularly resilient unit to start with, so no luck there. It would honestly be better putting Fulgrim with a completely separate unit, so you have two giant sweeping machines of death, rather than one 1000 point + 'I must kill half of my opponents army with one unit to make my points back' unit.

 

Their whole gimmick is that they win fights and sweep easily but when you're sinking so many points into a unit, it's a given that you should be expecting to annihilate everything you touch, so their ability to auto-win fights is pretty much void. And if your opponent pops that Spartan, and gets the charge on you, then the entire unit is completely useless. Getting charged obviously isn't exactly a good idea under any circumstances, but this is a unit that depends on it. Fulgrim is also a powerful enough fighter on his own, I just don't think he needs the Phoenix Guard. I'd run him with Palatines in a Dreadclaw, and I think Palatines are simply better.

 

In general with EC, I don't think it's a good idea to count on one unit doing all the heavy lifting. Come up against an army with a unit you can't sweep, and you're already halfway to a loss.

 

As for the lightning, if you're just doing it because it looks awesome, take the Storm Eagle - it's just a bit of a waste though, you can get a Kharybdis for cheaper which carries the same amount, is tougher, and gets you there faster. I think 1x lightning is enough.

 

On the list you just posted, as you identified, you have 2x bare bones Tactical squads without a transport. That's basically an auto-lose. A Deredeo removes one of your expensive flyers before it does a thing, and your deathstar needs to somehow kill virtually an entire army to be worth its points (and you don't even have shriekers, I'd take those 100% of the time because that's your saving grace if you charge a WS5 elite unit. I know it's a loyalist army, but that's going to make it even harder). You also don't really have anything to cope with, say, a Leviathan dropping into your deployment zone on turn 1. A Deredeo and some grav rapiers and your army is in a whole lot of trouble.

 

I think the list would be more threatening if you dropped a lightning, added a Storm Eagle (no lascannons) and put a Tactical Squad + Fulgrim in it.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Marshal Loss

[Jackalwolf]

MM that's a great point RE hedging too many bets in one unit that is useless in turn 2 if I haven't won the combat in a single fell swoop. Fulgrim in a Storm Eagle it is!

Yes... the Kharybdis is simply better in any way but it just doesn't scream EC to me :/ Now a sexy Storm Eagle does! Would it be best to put the 5 phoenix in the Storm Eagle or the Spartan, considering Fulgrim goes in the other ride.

[Withershadow]

Note that hidden blade's automatic reserves are more valuable now that Fulgrim's reroll doesn't work when in a transport.

[ja_147]

So After reading so much here this is my First attempt at producing somthing for 30k

 

EC 3rd Company 2000pts

Legiones Astartes III: Emperor's Children, Traitor

Rite of War: 3rd Company Elite

 

+HQ+ 

Legion Centurion [107pts]

Consul Chaplin, Artificer Armour, Sonic Shrieker, Boarding Shield

 

+ Elites + Palatine Blade Squad [273pts]

8x Palatine Warrior, 2x Pheonix Spear, Power Sword, Sonic Shriekers

Palatine Prefector Melta Bombs, Pheonix Spear

 

+ Troops +

The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children [235pts]

8x Chora, Orchestrator Artificer Armour

 

The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children [235pts]

8x Chora, Orchestrator Artificer Armour

 

+ Fast Attack +

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod [115pts]

Frag Assault Launchers

 

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron [130pts]

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Slayer Support Squadron [195pts]

3x Space Marine Sky Slayers, Volkite Culverin

 

Legion Jetbike Sky Slayer Support Squadron [165pts]

3x Space Marine Sky Slayers Multi-melta's 

 

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [165pts]

Accelerator Autocannon, Pintle-mounted Heavy Bolter

 

+ Lords of War +

Fulgrim the Illuminator [380pts]

Fireblade

 

The plan was to use Fulgrims abilty to chose his warlord trait and take Master of ambush to out flank the bikes, speeder also out flank.

 

Fulgrim, chaplin and blades in the Dread claw deep strike. Questions. Is the out flanking bikes worth it? If not am I better off chosing somthing like Conqueror of citys or child of terra or maybe dropping Fulgrim altogether and use Eidolon and probably fit another unit in or a Preator with some shinaigans.

 

Also im not sure but does Fulgrim use 1 space or 2 in transports? The force its self seams so light.

Edited March 22, 2017 by ja_147

[Rangaman]

Fulgrim is Bulky, so he takes two slots in a transport.

 

That force does seem a little light, I think the Kakaphoni need Rhinos for some protection. Also, Jetbikes have Deepstrike so that can be handy for setting up some rear armour shots with the Multimelta unit. Maybe take Conqueror of Cities for the Move Through Cover which will help your Kakaphoni to get into a vantage point in cover (ruins).

 

I suggest dropping the Volkite Jetbike squad to get two Rhinos and max out the Kakaphoni squads, you will also need to cut one Palatine Blade if you want Fulgrim in the Dreadclaw. If you have points left ovet you should get Lascannon sponsons on the Sicaran too.

[ja_147]

is the Volkite Jetbike squad not worth it? I figure the Kakaphoni would only be walking for a short while be for they hunker down in cover. Mind you i can see your point if playing hammer and anvil. Apart from that i cant see the use.

i was in debate about the lascannons. Its 40pts for just two lascannons.

[ja_147]

Made some changes

EC 3rd Company 2000pts

Legiones Astartes III: Emperor's Children,

Traitor Rite of War: 3rd Company Elite

 

+ Lords of War +

Fulgrim the Illuminator [380pts]

Fireblade Legion

 

Command Squad [197pts]

5 x legion Space Marine Chosen 5 x combat shields, 3 x power fists, 2 x power weapons, Sonic Shriekers

 

+HQ+

Legion Centurion [127pts]

Consul Chaplin, Artificer Armour, Sonic Shrieker, Boarding Shield, Pheonix Spear

 

+ Elites +

Apothecary [45pts]

 

+ Troops +

The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children [255pts]

9x Chora, Orchestrator Artificer Armour

 

The Kakophani of the Emperor's Children [255pts]

9x Chora, Orchestrator Artificer Armour

 

+ Fast Attack +

Legion Seeker Squad [235pts]

8 legion space Marines, 1 Legion Strike Leader

 

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod [115pts]

Frag Assault Launchers Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron [130pts]

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher

 

+ Heavy Support +

Legion Jetbike Sky Slayer Support Squadron [165pts]

3x Space Marine Sky Slayers Multi-melta's

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank [165pts]

Accelerator Autocannon, Pintle-mounted Heavy Bolter

 

The Paladin Blades Squad was getting smaller so i though instead of takeing a unit of 7 blades why not take a bodyguard.

I buffed up the Noise marine units but decided that they will walk. Added an Apothecary for FnP. So Fulgrim, his body guard, Chaplin, Apothecary all in dread Claw.

I saw seaker squads and added one in, there rules seam quite nice.

Better or worse?

is the command squad armed right?

does the chaplin need the spear.

Edited March 22, 2017 by ja_147

[MorgothNL]

I'm looking to tweak my current army a bit, cause I'm looking to add some jetbikes or Javelin Speeders. Jetbikes are the most likely ones to be added because my RG already have 2 speeders and Jetbikes just breaths EC.

 

So I was wondering on your experiences with jetbikes. Does anyone ever use them as an assault unit? Which setup and numbers work well? (it will only be one unit but I can free up quite some points). 

How are the heavy slot jetbikes compared to the fast ones? 

 

To me it feels like they took quite the hit with the grenades in assault FAQ.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Jetbikes are really not made for assaults since they have no access to power weapons, leave outriders to assault duties if you want a fast, bike mounted assault unit. They are far better at fire support since they all have a heavy weapon. I'd say a unit of 3-6 is ideal, multiples of 3 being best because you'll want to take two weapon upgrades. 

 

Sky slayers are nice since the entire squad has access to better weapons, but I think I'd prefer heavy support choices with more firepower over them. They are excellent however for RoWs that restrict your heavy support choices like orbital assault, drop assault vanguard and any other rite that's deep strike or jump infantry/skimmer/jetbike oriented. 

[ja_147]

What would you say was better pts for pts and battle field versatilty.

 

1 unit of 6 jetbikes with 2 Hvy weapons

or

2 units of Sky Slayer support with 3 hvy weapons each.

 

obviously im not counting HB as heavy weapons

Edited March 27, 2017 by ja_147

[Lord Asvaldir]

Well there is no doubt the 2 sky slayer units have more versatility, it's 2 units so you can shoot at more targets and you have x3 the heavy weapons the normal jetbike squad has. However, that option is also 70 more pts if you're using multi meltas in both units and using up two of your heavy support slots just for 6 multi melta/volkite culverins/plasma cannons which is not that much firepower for 2 heavy slots. I'd prefer the six man jetbike squad because of that.  

[Fangbanger]

what up nerds

 

suddenly got super pumped for the third and played with a list idea. pleased to see by flicking through here my thoughts are shared with you EC vets.

 

Going third company cos I've always wanted to paint Kakophani and plan on 3 units as well as an Eidalon assault squad.

 

Question on heavies, thinking of 3 x lesser destroyers with MS and squad leader as to benefit from tank hunter as my anti spartan/super heavy munchers. At 500pts, it's a huge point sink though...

 

How survivable and effective have you found if running these?

 

Cheers guys!

[Lord Asvaldir]

Well vindicator/predator chassis tanks aren't very survivable, if anything with a decent amount of firepower gets to hit the side armor of the tank it will go down fast. Also more difficult to cover the flanks of a whole squadron of tanks. That being said, yeah laser vindicator destroyers are definetly worth it, as you said they pack a hefty punch and if you take two with machine spirit you've got the option to target lots of tanks. Only downside to laser destroyers is they are not good anti spartan firepower, since they can't pen a flare shield. Sure you could whether it down with glances, but you could spend a lot less pts to get units capable of glancing spartans to death. Just think of laser vindicators as anti armor against anything without a flare shield.

 

The one other downside to note is laser vindicators are not very maneuverable. They lose a lot of firepower if they move, so if you want a more versatile anti armor choice a lightning or venator is a better bet. If you're playing a very fluid, maneuverable based EC list they aren't the best, but if you want a solid backline fire base laser vindicators are pretty perfect for that. 

[Fangbanger]

pretty much what I thought, thanks for the confirmation, I guess lightning it is... :-(

 

I have a venator for my world eaters and it thoroughly disappoints except that one game in 100 that it wrecks face.

 

I think it'll be easier more fluffy filling those fast attack slots instead then...

[Fangbanger]

Ok so based on how I like to play and the pages in here, I have done my 3k list...

 

I'm looking for an army with a solid fire base but as a world eater, I don't want to be no slouch in combat, thus, the Emperors finest and their third company elite fit the bill extremely well whilst looking stunning

 

 

3000pts, Third company elite

 

Eidolon, jump pack

 

3 X Apoth, 1 with jet pack

8 X palatine blades (melta bomb, ss, 3 X spear)

 

15 X assault marines (combat shields, ss, p.fist, 2 x p.axe) - apoth

9 X kakophoni (orchestra AA, spear, MB), rhino with MM - apoth

9 X kakophoni (orchestra AA, spear, MB), rhino with MM - apoth

10 X kakophoni (orchestra MB), rhino with MM

 

Anvilus

2 X Javs with Cyclone, MM, 2x hunter killer each

Lightning, 2 X kraken, BSC, GTA

 

2 x vindi lazer destroyers

 

Fulgrim

 

 

What y'all think?

[Lord Asvaldir]

I wouldn't take eidolon. He's a fun character, but not needed with Fulgrim in the list. Better to save pts and take something like a chaplain or forge lord which will be a good force multiplier for the assault squad. Plus I'd max out power weapons in that assault squad, take the full 3 you're allowed to take. 

 

Overall the list looks alright. Terminators might be an issue for you to face considering palatines aren't really a match for a straight up fight against a full sized terminator unit, but with the weight of fire from all those kakaphoni you can probably handle them. 

[Fangbanger]

Yeah I agree lack of Ap2 is going to be a bit of a downfall. I'd love a typhon but it doesn't really scream EC and perfection...! Also wanted to stay away from running terminators myself.

 

I think like you say though, the potential fire power from the kophs if they focus fire should be a good amount to put down some 2+ Armour.

[Purge the Daemon]

Yeah I agree lack of Ap2 is going to be a bit of a downfall. I'd love a typhon but it doesn't really scream EC and perfection...! Also wanted to stay away from running terminators myself.

 

I think like you say though, the potential fire power from the kophs if they focus fire should be a good amount to put down some 2+ Armour.

While a typhon might not be the best fit fellblades factions and glaives all very much fit the children's aesthetic albeit more points intensive.

[Fangbanger]

this is true. Maybe at a later date as always loved the falcion model too

[Withershadow]

Refresh my memory, can Fulgrim only auto-select Strategic Traits, or can he use 30K Legion traits as well? If so, Child of Terra is very nice to give him and his unit a bit of a boost in melee.  Master of Ambush can complicate things because he gains Infiltrate, and thus cannot join the Blades and Apothecary in the Dreadclaw (unless you use MoA to give them infiltrate as well). Also you don't want to have too many things in reserve, because Fulgrim's re-rolls only work while he's outside of his transport, so we're talking Turn 3 most likely (or Turn 2 if they blow up the dreadclaw on their turn).