Community project : Let's found a Chapter ! (Phase 3 & 4)

[Stercus]

I'm not sure we need to leave out sternguard from the first company. Although they utilise weapons not ideal for prisoner taking, we need to think about the quality of the prisoners needed for sacrifice. A higher value prisoner would be a character or officer, and I feel sternguard would be ideal for shredding their way through lesser troops to engage these targets. After all the logistics involved for a small, elite astartes army to capture enemy formations wholesale are unimaginable; much better to destroy the unworthy rank and file and capture the leaders or champions for the glory of the emperor.

Reading a little about Saxon traditions, they refer to giant-like beings called Etin which would perhaps be a good name for TH/SS terminators (or even assault centurions?).

[Black Cohort]

I'm not sure we need to leave out sternguard from the first company. Although they utilise weapons not ideal for prisoner taking, we need to think about the quality of the prisoners needed for sacrifice. A higher value prisoner would be a character or officer, and I feel sternguard would be ideal for shredding their way through lesser troops to engage these targets. After all the logistics involved for a small, elite astartes army to capture enemy formations wholesale are unimaginable; much better to destroy the unworthy rank and file and capture the leaders or champions for the glory of the emperor.

Reading a little about Saxon traditions, they refer to giant-like beings called Etin which would perhaps be a good name for TH/SS terminators (or even assault centurions?).

As a codex chapter I am sure they still have the capability to use sternguard, it just isn't their preferred method. Slaughter of basic troops should be left to lesser members of the chapter as part of their standard doctrine while the first company goes in to capture important prisoners.

 

Edit: I do like the Etin idea. Probably for assault terminators? I don't see the chapter using assault devestators much, too slow for their use of assault squads.

[Tiberius Cato]

I'm not sure we need to leave out sternguard from the first company. Although they utilise weapons not ideal for prisoner taking, we need to think about the quality of the prisoners needed for sacrifice. A higher value prisoner would be a character or officer, and I feel sternguard would be ideal for shredding their way through lesser troops to engage these targets. After all the logistics involved for a small, elite astartes army to capture enemy formations wholesale are unimaginable; much better to destroy the unworthy rank and file and capture the leaders or champions for the glory of the emperor.

Reading a little about Saxon traditions, they refer to giant-like beings called Etin which would perhaps be a good name for TH/SS terminators (or even assault centurions?).

Perhaps that would be a name suitable for dreadnoughts?

[TDF]

It isn't very astarte-like (at least for loyalists) but perhaps they could flat-out terrorise the population to minimise deaths and maximise the number of enemies who surrender.

[Black Cohort]

It isn't very astarte-like (at least for loyalists) but perhaps they could flat-out terrorise the population to minimise deaths and maximise the number of enemies who surrender.

Night lords level terror may not be standard loyalists marine doctrine, but don't let that mislead you. Astartes are utterly terrifying to face in combat, though there tabletop rules may not reflect it. They are 7.5 foot tall killing machines wearing tank armour and carrying an automatic rocket launcher. They descend from the sky in drop pods, which are lethal weapons in their own right. Anyone who finds out that astartes are being sent to deal with them should surrender immediately and beg for mercy for the Space Marines are the Emperor's Wrath incarnate. Part of the reason why this doesn't happen is space marines are seen so little by people that to many they are simply a myth, so any rumours that marines are coming must not be accurate as marines don't exist. A myth that is soon shattered when the drop pods start falling and thunderhawks are launched, for marines exist, behold their wrath and tremble.

 

But more on topic yes, perhaps they broadcast calls for surrender (at least to human foes) before attacking.

[Tiberius Cato]

Terror tactics would be cool, and it does kinda fit the Aztec theme.

[GreyCrow]

That's going very well ! I like the idea of Terminators + Vanguard Veterans a lot. It's a more elite variation of the regular Company, with Terminators being the epitome of Heavy Infantry in our Codex.

 

I like the engagements of Battle company + support from other companies.

[Gorkimedes]

Been thinking about how the Primarchs would fit into a pantheon. Since its a later chapter I tried to not go with obvious views what with time messing with interpretation and all.

 

The Emperor- While he walked the galaxy  the Emperor was the living embodiment of humanity, when his body met its end the fires of his soul ignited into a sun that illuminates the galaxy. 

 

Guilliman the Arch-Saint, The Reclaimer. The Primogenitor of the chapter sits closest to the Emperor's light. A demi-god in which all virtues are balanced.

 

Dorn- The Hunting Knight.  In life the Praetorian was rarely far from the Emperor's side. When the emperor fell the Imperium's stalwart defender was replaced by an unchecked storm of vengeance. The lord of the VII offers aid to all who value the cause above themselves. One does not ask for his aid lightly, for if your conviction is found wanting he will not hesitate to doom you.

 

Sanguinius- The Soul Stealer, Most often invoked in times of looming defeat. The Emperor's dead son rules over a bloody underworld from which he steals the souls of heretics and traitors denying them whatever salvation their dark gods would offer them.

 

Ferrus and Vulkan- Brothers of cultivation and nurturing. Most often seen in the rites of the 10th company these two Primarchs offer aid to all who wish to improve themselves.

 

Russ- The virtue of balance, tempers the primal  spirit with the keen mind of a trained warrior?

The Lion-?

Corax-?

Khan-?

[Black Cohort]

That's going very well ! I like the idea of Terminators + Vanguard Veterans a lot. It's a more elite variation of the regular Company, with Terminators being the epitome of Heavy Infantry in our Codex.

 

I like the engagements of Battle company + support from other companies.

I figure that a "standard" Knights Panthera force would look something like the following

 

Battle company in full

15-25 members of the first company

1 or 2 squads from each of the reserve companies (probably all tacticals coming from the same reserve company)

Command staff from one of the reserve companies (captain+ command squad and chaplain)

1-3 members of the librarius

1-3 techmarines

10-30 scouts

additional vehicles from chapter forge

 

Normally 2 or 3 of these forces would be out at any one time.

 

Chapter vehicles are more likely to be equipped for killing tanks than infantry as infantry are what you want to capture.

 

In battle tactical terminators anchor the battle line made up of tactical and devestator squads. Reserve captain usually in command of this element. Scout squads range ahead with locator beacons to guide in assault squads, vanguard, assault terminators and drop pods. Normally the assault elements will be commanded by the senior captain.

Been thinking about how the Primarchs would fit into a pantheon. Since its a later chapter I tried to not go with obvious views what with time messing with interpretation and all.

 

The Emperor- While he walked the galaxy the Emperor was the living embodiment of humanity, when his body met its end the fires of his soul ignited into a sun that illuminates the galaxy.

 

Guilliman the Arch-Saint, The Reclaimer. The Primogenitor of the chapter sits closest to the Emperor's light. A demi-god in which all virtues are balanced.

 

Dorn- The Hunting Knight. In life the Praetorian was rarely far from the Emperor's side. When the emperor fell the Imperium's stalwart defender was replaced by an unchecked storm of vengeance. The lord of the VII offers aid to all who value the cause above themselves. One does not ask for his aid lightly, for if your conviction is found wanting he will not hesitate to doom you.

 

Sanguinius- The Soul Stealer, Most often invoked in times of looming defeat. The Emperor's dead son rules over a bloody underworld from which he steals the souls of heretics and traitors denying them whatever salvation their dark gods would offer them.

 

Ferrus and Vulkan- Brothers of cultivation and nurturing. Most often seen in the rites of the 10th company these two Primarchs offer aid to all who wish to improve themselves.

 

Russ- The virtue of balance, tempers the primal spirit with the keen mind of a trained warrior?

The Lion-?

Corax-?

Khan-?

I like where you are going with this

[Stercus]

Corax, The Guide: Clad in a cloak of tattered black feathers, the Raven Lord is invoked by those who search and seek. The most stealthy of the sons of the Emperor, he aids the sharp eyes and keen senses of the Knights Panthera, leading them unfailingly to their quarry.

[TDF]

 

It isn't very astarte-like (at least for loyalists) but perhaps they could flat-out terrorise the population to minimise deaths and maximise the number of enemies who surrender.

Night lords level terror may not be standard loyalists marine doctrine, but don't let that mislead you. Astartes are utterly terrifying to face in combat, though there tabletop rules may not reflect it. They are 7.5 foot tall killing machines wearing tank armour and carrying an automatic rocket launcher. They descend from the sky in drop pods, which are lethal weapons in their own right. Anyone who finds out that astartes are being sent to deal with them should surrender immediately and beg for mercy for the Space Marines are the Emperor's Wrath incarnate. Part of the reason why this doesn't happen is space marines are seen so little by people that to many they are simply a myth, so any rumours that marines are coming must not be accurate as marines don't exist. A myth that is soon shattered when the drop pods start falling and thunderhawks are launched, for marines exist, behold their wrath and tremble.

 

But more on topic yes, perhaps they broadcast calls for surrender (at least to human foes) before attacking.

 

Yeah, I was thinking more of the broadcasting screams on all channels, nailing people upside down to billboards shtick the Night Lords have going on when I called terror tactics un-astarte-like. I agree that the very sight of a space marine can be enough to cow a rebellion into surrender.

[GreyCrow]

Really like where this is going, the idea for the gods, the Etin and the culture of the Chapter is fleshing out very well :)

Terrorizing the population would work well as well, not so much in the gruesome night lords fashion, but I was thinking about something more subtle yet effective to underline the Astartes Warrior's might and fear (actually, now that I think about it, Space Marines should cause Fear :p ) :

 

I remember that Incas, Mayas and Aztecs used to be very mindful of astronomy especially anything sun related. How about shortly before making planetfall via Drop Pods or Drop Ships, they release airburst bombs in the upper atmosphere designed to temporarily and locally block out the sun's light to create an artifical eclipse. I think I'm a pretty brave guy, but I know I would wet my pants if an eclipse suddenly burst out of nowhere and then a hundred giants dropped from the sky...

[ElectricPaladin]

What if it was more psy-ops than brutal terror? They do things like black out the sun, but they also treat mortal prisoners fairly. That combination - our enemies are nearly all-powerful but they'll show mercy if you throw down your weapons and surrender - is more effective anyway…

[Black Cohort]

On a different note. I had an idea for centurions, what if the chapter gives both varieties to devestators? Both being considered "heavy weapons platforms" by the chapter.

 

Another thing we need to consider at this point is what chapter provided the training cadre, and did many of these themes begin with that cadre?

[Tiberius Cato]

I think that if we go for psy-ops, then blacking out the sun would be cool. I feel like this approach from also benefit from having Astartes barge through walls Kool-Aid man style and letting loose primal roars (maybe from evoking their core predatory instincts with pre-battle worship of one of the Primarchs [Either the Khan or Russ I'm thinking]) and other crazy things. Maybe they even carry chainswords primarily to cause fear, mainly just revving it up while holding enemies by the throat?

 

I like the idea of centurions being dev exclusive, that adds a nice twist to the unit. Not only do they add firepower, but now they devestate in a whole new way, by grinding up people and vehicles with seige drills. Psy-ops at work. ;)

[GreyCrow]

The Kool Aid Centurion sourds very nasty, I can see how then could workdhop as a Devastator role, more in a logistical sort of way rater than a purely offensive sort of way (bring down fortications, burning down forests).

 

Using Dev Centurion chassis for Open Terrain warfare, then switching weapons for close combat theaters.

Once against keeping with the psychological warfare : suppressing fire although not modelized in the game is terrible for morale, much like a 12' tall exoskeleton with drills the suer of your body tearing your bunker down.

 

We could have a progression amongst the devastator company from : Devastator --> Dev Cent --> Assault Cent, which is where the Marine is likely to bring sufficient captives to warrant promotion to the assault company (in which then keep codex adherent, either through deploying via Bikes or Jump packs, heavy and light cavaler respectively)

I can see the progression in Assault compagnies starting with Jump Packs, then moving to Bikes, because Jump packs are likely to take on isolated very light targets while Bikes can handle tougher stuff, and which role is more afin to a very mobile tactical squad anyways

[Tiberius Cato]

I like it, GreyCrow. 'Tis a sound logical progression.

[Stercus]

Also, the idea of assault centurions sitting in a gunline of tacticals and devastators sounds terrifying... The overwatch fire from these guys is horrible. Twin linked flamers and hurricane bolters anybody?

 

Charge us? If you want to, but you'll wish you hadn't.

[Quozzo]

I don't understand the trepidation in using Sternguard. When a model is "wounded" and thus removed from the table, they may not be dead but incapacitated in some manner. They may be simply unconscious, bleeding out, have ligaments amputated or they may actually, well... be dead. Poisoned weapons especially, or the Kraken(?) rounds. They may not kill the opponent, just render him paralysed!

EDIT: Similar most of the DE poisoned weapons. The DE dont want to kill, they want to savour it

[Black Cohort]

I don't understand the trepidation in using Sternguard. When a model is "wounded" and thus removed from the table, they may not be dead but incapacitated in some manner. They may be simply unconscious, bleeding out, have ligaments amputated or they may actually, well... be dead. Poisoned weapons especially, or the Kraken(?) rounds. They may not kill the opponent, just render him paralysed!

EDIT: Similar most of the DE poisoned weapons. The DE dont want to kill, they want to savour it

I also see it as more of a style preference, the chapter overall favouring melee over ranged combat when possible. As I have said before it probably isn't so much that they don't or can't field sternguard, they simply prefer to use Vanguard or terminators. But if the situation really calls for it then sternguard would be fielded.

And I actually hold the opposite view on hellfire rounds, fluff wise they contain a very strong acid that basically "melts" the target.

Edit: the Knights Panthera are a codex adherent chapter so everything you find in Codex: Space Marines that is useable by the Ultramarines they will have, that being said, they have preferences for certain wargear or tactics.

[Stercus]

I think I'm with you here. While the Knights Panthera unquestionably have the equipment and training to deploy as sternguard, given the opportunity they will utilise terminator suits and vanguard loadouts instead.

I like the idea of using assault centurions as members of the ninth company. Looking in the codex, they rock up as an elite choice rather than fast attack, so it works from a rules point of view as well as a fluff hook. The most senior members of the junior company, finally given the chance to join the assault and capture prisoners of worth to honour the emperor and his pantheon of heroes.

[Quozzo]

I don't understand the trepidation in using Sternguard. When a model is "wounded" and thus removed from the table, they may not be dead but incapacitated in some manner. They may be simply unconscious, bleeding out, have ligaments amputated or they may actually, well... be dead. Poisoned weapons especially, or the Kraken(?) rounds. They may not kill the opponent, just render him paralysed!

EDIT: Similar most of the DE poisoned weapons. The DE dont want to kill, they want to savour it

I also see it as more of a style preference, the chapter overall favouring melee over ranged combat when possible. As I have said before it probably isn't so much that they don't or can't field sternguard, they simply prefer to use Vanguard or terminators. But if the situation really calls for it then sternguard would be fielded.

And I actually hold the opposite view on hellfire rounds, fluff wise they contain a very strong acid that basically "melts" the target.

Edit: the Knights Panthera are a codex adherent chapter so everything you find in Codex: Space Marines that is useable by the Ultramarines they will have, that being said, they have preferences for certain wargear or tactics.

Yes fluff wise the kraken rounds contains an acid designed to kill tyranids, but putting a spin on it they could contain poisons. Providing the rules are kept, the fluff can be changed. Isn't that point of this exercise Otherwise every "wound" inflicted would kill the guy as there is no capture mechanic, and choice of power weapon would be largely redundant.

If the objective is to incapacitate the enemy to sacrifice them later on, they don't specifically need to be in close range. Like Aztecs used to use bows and arrows laced with poison, I thought the same could be said with the Knights Panthera.

Just throwing my thoughts in as the sternguard are quite versatile so the same could be said with the chapters objective. I'm not a fan of them myself being a BA and GK fan but they shouldn't be hastily overlooked regarding the background fluff.

[Tiberius Cato]

Maybe the chapter's sternguard uses special two stage ammunition? The first stage goes off just like a normal bolt, then when it leaves the barrel the second stage goes off and a smaller round ejects that resembles a dart. This smaller projectile would carry a nuerotoxin that incapacitates the target whilst causing minimal damage to ensure maximum survivability.

 

I hope that made sense...

[Black Cohort]

Maybe the chapter's sternguard uses special two stage ammunition? The first stage goes off just like a normal bolt, then when it leaves the barrel the second stage goes off and a smaller round ejects that resembles a dart. This smaller projectile would carry a nuerotoxin that incapacitates the target whilst causing minimal damage to ensure maximum survivability.

 

I hope that made sense...

This idea could work, personally I thought that they could roll out the sternguard vs "unworthy" foes when the enemy just needs to die fast.

[ElectricPaladin]

I think it's important not to push this whole captive-taking thing too far. This is a chapter of Astartes, not a kidnapping club. When push comes to shove, they kill the out of it and move on. Everybody wants to be the guy who bags a Carnifex for later sacrifice; nobody wants to be the guy who gets their squad killed trying to do it. I think that preferences and mild modifications of existing wargear are entirely legit, but I'd shy away from inventing whole new kinds of ammo and wargear for them. They are Space Marines. They kill. They just like to "count coup" and earn kudos from the chapter by capturing their opponents when possible.