GrunTeufel Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 This just gets worse and worse.... I don't get it. You used to pay for the fast upgrade whether you liked it or not. Now there is an option. How is that a bad thing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 This just gets worse and worse.... how ?! Why? What is irking you so? How is this not looking amazing!? This just gets worse and worse.... I don't get it. You used to pay for the fast upgrade whether you liked it or not. Now there is an option. How is that a bad thing? This! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Because Iron Hands dont pay for IWND on their vehicles. White Scars get Outflank free on their vehicles with Khan (who is points efficient already) The points parity is poor in comparison to other marine books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Because Iron Hands dont pay for IWND on their vehicles. White Scars get Outflank free on their vehicles with Khan (who is points efficient already) The points parity is poor in comparison to other marine books. No 7th ed codex has been close to the big boys from 6th. It's not ideal but that's the way it is. Hopefully GW will update the remaining 6th ed books as quickly as possible because when it comes to 7th ed books we are the best so far. We are definitely above or on par with Space wolves and Dark angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Because Iron Hands dont pay for IWND on their vehicles. White Scars get Outflank free on their vehicles with Khan (who is points efficient already) The points parity is poor in comparison to other marine books. Come on dude? We're getting FC across the board, and +1 init on the charge - and you want vehicles that can move 6" MORE in movement and shoot 2 weapons or boost 6" MORE than regular, for free? We've been playing with a 15 point FIXED premium on these vehicles for 6 years, and before that had more expensive vehicles that only worked 50% of the time, and 18% of the time stalled. :/ How is this "worse" ? How can you compare it to what the SM have instead of the BA (us!) >had< ?! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 But fast is WAY better than iwnd or outflank! The ability to drive 6 and fire all weapons, or 12 and still 2 at full BS is easily worth 10 points. Try to play non-fast vehicles and feel the difference, there's no way this upgrade should be free. @Mort I hope they hurry up with that frag cannon, that's really what I want to know too ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 How do you guys plan on dealing with the overcrowded Elites slot? Death Company, Dreadnoughts (of many varieties), Terminators, Sternguard, Vanguard - It's depressing.. I'll probably have to ditch plans of assembling a third dreadnought, disassemble my Sternguard and repurpose into a 5 man Tactical Squad with a Heavy Flamer, and stick to Death Company, 1 Furioso and 1 Terminator squad.. :( Sad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 You dont get +1 init on the charge, that's a formation. Furious Charge is wonderful... when you get to charge. Which you cant do out of our transports. This book is full of special rules that don't synergise with each other and are not much use at all in 7th ed. Yes I know the 7th books have mostly been lacklustre, but the Space Wolves book was pretty darn good to be honest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Because Iron Hands dont pay for IWND on their vehicles. White Scars get Outflank free on their vehicles with Khan (who is points efficient already) The points parity is poor in comparison to other marine books. Fair comparison, but we can manage. At least we have the choice Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 You dont get +1 init on the charge, that's a formation. Furious Charge is wonderful... when you get to charge. Which you cant do out of our transports. This book is full of special rules that don't synergise with each other and are not much use at all in 7th ed. Yes I know the 7th books have mostly been lacklustre, but the Space Wolves book was pretty darn good to be honest. Could someone fill me in on this formation and how it works please? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 it is just an alternative force org chart, rather than using the combined arms chart from the BRB, you use the one outlined in the codex. In doing so you lose Objective Secured but gain +1 Init on the charge Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Need more info ! Want to know Astorath's points cost and stats. DC and ASM equipment options and cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 TBH, with our woeful selection of Troops options I would pretty much always go for that formation. Answers the problems with the ridiculously over stacked Elites section too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 How do you guys plan on dealing with the overcrowded Elites slot? Death Company, Dreadnoughts (of many varieties), Terminators, Sternguard, Vanguard - It's depressing.. I'll probably have to ditch plans of assembling a third dreadnought, disassemble my Sternguard and repurpose into a 5 man Tactical Squad with a Heavy Flamer, and stick to Death Company, 1 Furioso and 1 Terminator squad.. Sad. The formation is going to be nigh on mandatory I reckon to give you four elites slots and +1I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Need more info ! Want to know Astorath's points cost and stats. DC and ASM equipment options and cost. For DC I can tell you that current costs on equipment remain unchanged except for JPs are +3pts each. DC access to Grav is unknown. Base DC cost remains the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Similar with grey knights, the force org chart is tailored to the codex, I don't see too much problems with that. Pick 10 scouts and you have that mandatory troop selection (and some good backfield sitters/outflankers)... Getting the charge is not hard with jump troops or land raiders, which we both still have -.- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I won't be running the formation for an extra elites slot if it means I lose Objective Secured. I already run 3 Tactical Squads that castle up, and I have a surgical assault style that goes for enemy troops with Deep Striking Drop Pod Furioso, Drop Pod DC and Terminators rather than all out attack. The Heavy Flamer will be a great addition to my castling strategy. I'll probably get around to painting my 4xML Devs now that we have Flak. Nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfThunder Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 You dont get +1 init on the charge, that's a formation. Furious Charge is wonderful... when you get to charge. Which you cant do out of our transports. This book is full of special rules that don't synergise with each other and are not much use at all in 7th ed. Yes I know the 7th books have mostly been lacklustre, but the Space Wolves book was pretty darn good to be honest. Could someone fill me in on this formation and how it works please? Not a formation, a detachment. Gives you a slightly different FOC, and different army-wide rules. And in this case it still has 2 compulsory troops, there's no way around that atm. But it provides one more elite slot than usual. As for dealing with overcrowded elites...the libby dread is now HQ, and the van vets seem to be a bit obsolete with DC being in the same spot and about the same price (if van vets follow vanilla pricing). I guess there'll be some different builds to justify both units..for instance DC won't be able to take storm shields. But still probably DC will be the default choice. Not interested in termis, so I won't mind not using them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I won't be running the formation for an extra elites slot if it means I lose Objective Secured. I already run 3 Tactical Squads that castle up, and I have a surgical assault style that goes for enemy troops with Deep Striking Drop Pod Furioso, Drop Pod DC and Terminators rather than all out attack. The Heavy Flamer will be a great addition to my castling strategy. I'll probably get around to painting my 4xML Devs now that we have Flak. Nice. Nothing stopping you from running 1CAD for ObjSec and 1 BA Detachment for Init bonus :) Would require an additional HQ (130pnt Corbs for FNP bubble?) and 1 more troop - quite comfortably done, no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Be interesting to see how the Formation bonuses interact with other BA units in other detachments Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I won't be running the formation for an extra elites slot if it means I lose Objective Secured. I already run 3 Tactical Squads that castle up, and I have a surgical assault style that goes for enemy troops with Deep Striking Drop Pod Furioso, Drop Pod DC and Terminators rather than all out attack. The Heavy Flamer will be a great addition to my castling strategy. I'll probably get around to painting my 4xML Devs now that we have Flak. Nice. I don't think obsec is that great a thing if you're playing games where objectives score every turn (ie Maelstrom). Normally you can push off weak troops units quite easily Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I won't be running the formation for an extra elites slot if it means I lose Objective Secured. I already run 3 Tactical Squads that castle up, and I have a surgical assault style that goes for enemy troops with Deep Striking Drop Pod Furioso, Drop Pod DC and Terminators rather than all out attack. The Heavy Flamer will be a great addition to my castling strategy. I'll probably get around to painting my 4xML Devs now that we have Flak. Nice. Nothing stopping you from running 1CAD for ObjSec and 1 BA Detachment for Init bonus Would require an additional HQ (130pnt Corbs for FNP bubble?) and 1 more troop - quite comfortably done, no? Forgive me for being a little slow, I still don't have a 7th ed rulebook :) (though it's in the mail now..), but, correct me if I'm wrong: I'd have to take 2 detachments of Blood Angels Detachment 1: HQ + 2 Troops + The usual Detachment 2: HQ + 1 Elites + 2 Troops + Up to 3 more elites(this is the Deathstorm detachment? Do I need the Deathstorm book for this?) This give me armywide +1I and army wide Obj Secured, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 So... I've seen it said several times that we won't get any new units. If so, what are the terminator honour guard?? Is the banner going to be an upgrade for regular terminator squads? Sorry if this is a stupid question, i'm just a bit confused. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I won't be running the formation for an extra elites slot if it means I lose Objective Secured. I already run 3 Tactical Squads that castle up, and I have a surgical assault style that goes for enemy troops with Deep Striking Drop Pod Furioso, Drop Pod DC and Terminators rather than all out attack. The Heavy Flamer will be a great addition to my castling strategy. I'll probably get around to painting my 4xML Devs now that we have Flak. Nice. Nothing stopping you from running 1CAD for ObjSec and 1 BA Detachment for Init bonus :) Would require an additional HQ (130pnt Corbs for FNP bubble?) and 1 more troop - quite comfortably done, no? I havnt actually played 7th so havnt properly got my head around this yet. If you had 2 foc. One with objective secured, do troops from both foc get to use objective secured rules Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I won't be running the formation for an extra elites slot if it means I lose Objective Secured. I already run 3 Tactical Squads that castle up, and I have a surgical assault style that goes for enemy troops with Deep Striking Drop Pod Furioso, Drop Pod DC and Terminators rather than all out attack. The Heavy Flamer will be a great addition to my castling strategy. I'll probably get around to painting my 4xML Devs now that we have Flak. Nice. Nothing stopping you from running 1CAD for ObjSec and 1 BA Detachment for Init bonus Would require an additional HQ (130pnt Corbs for FNP bubble?) and 1 more troop - quite comfortably done, no? Forgive me for being a little slow, I still don't have a 7th ed rulebook (though it's in the mail now..), but, correct me if I'm wrong: I'd have to take 2 detachments of Blood Angels Detachment 1: HQ + 2 Troops + The usual Detachment 2: HQ + 1 Elites + 2 Troops + Up to 3 more elites(this is the Deathstorm detachment? Do I need the Deathstorm book for this?) This give me armywide +1I and army wide Obj Secured, right? Sadly not! The stuff you take from Detach 1 will get you objective secured with TROOPS (and only TROOPS), while ALL the stuff you take with Detachment 2 will get you the Init +1 bonus! And, of course, because its now a universal BA rule, both detachments will have the BA with FC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/57/#findComment-3884148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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