Morticon Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I havnt actually played 7th so havnt properly got my head around this yet. If you had 2 foc. One with objective secured, do troops from both foc get to use objective secured rules Step 1 is actually to throw out EVERYTHING you know about "Force Organisation Charts" - replace it with the idea of "detachments" (a unique type of FOC). You can have as many detachments as you can fit in for the points youre playing. Each detachment comes with its own perks. Currently, only "Allied Detachments" and "Combined Arms Detachments" offer Obj Sec for TROOPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I won't be running the formation for an extra elites slot if it means I lose Objective Secured. I already run 3 Tactical Squads that castle up, and I have a surgical assault style that goes for enemy troops with Deep Striking Drop Pod Furioso, Drop Pod DC and Terminators rather than all out attack. The Heavy Flamer will be a great addition to my castling strategy. I'll probably get around to painting my 4xML Devs now that we have Flak. Nice. Nothing stopping you from running 1CAD for ObjSec and 1 BA Detachment for Init bonus Would require an additional HQ (130pnt Corbs for FNP bubble?) and 1 more troop - quite comfortably done, no? Forgive me for being a little slow, I still don't have a 7th ed rulebook (though it's in the mail now..), but, correct me if I'm wrong: I'd have to take 2 detachments of Blood Angels Detachment 1: HQ + 2 Troops + The usual Detachment 2: HQ + 1 Elites + 2 Troops + Up to 3 more elites(this is the Deathstorm detachment? Do I need the Deathstorm book for this?) This give me armywide +1I and army wide Obj Secured, right? Sadly not! The stuff you take from Detach 1 will get you objective secured with TROOPS (and only TROOPS), while ALL the stuff you take with Detachment 2 will get you the Init +1 bonus! And, of course, because its now a universal BA rule, both detachments will have the BA with FC. Ahhh.. I see. Soo.. I can do the following: Detachment 1: An HQ I don't need +1I on, Tactical Squad with Plasma/Multimelta x2 Detachment 2: Librarian on Bike, Tactical Squad with HF, Flamer, CC Scout Squad, Bike Squad, Terminators, Death Company, DC Dread, Furioso, Bike Squad with Plasmaguns Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theduke08 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 You dont get +1 init on the charge, that's a formation. Furious Charge is wonderful... when you get to charge. Which you cant do out of our transports. This book is full of special rules that don't synergise with each other and are not much use at all in 7th ed. Yes I know the 7th books have mostly been lacklustre, but the Space Wolves book was pretty darn good to be honest. So you have the book... youve played with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I won't be running the formation for an extra elites slot if it means I lose Objective Secured. I already run 3 Tactical Squads that castle up, and I have a surgical assault style that goes for enemy troops with Deep Striking Drop Pod Furioso, Drop Pod DC and Terminators rather than all out attack. The Heavy Flamer will be a great addition to my castling strategy. I'll probably get around to painting my 4xML Devs now that we have Flak. Nice. Nothing stopping you from running 1CAD for ObjSec and 1 BA Detachment for Init bonus Would require an additional HQ (130pnt Corbs for FNP bubble?) and 1 more troop - quite comfortably done, no? Forgive me for being a little slow, I still don't have a 7th ed rulebook (though it's in the mail now..), but, correct me if I'm wrong: I'd have to take 2 detachments of Blood Angels Detachment 1: HQ + 2 Troops + The usual Detachment 2: HQ + 1 Elites + 2 Troops + Up to 3 more elites(this is the Deathstorm detachment? Do I need the Deathstorm book for this?) This give me armywide +1I and army wide Obj Secured, right? Sadly not! The stuff you take from Detach 1 will get you objective secured with TROOPS (and only TROOPS), while ALL the stuff you take with Detachment 2 will get you the Init +1 bonus! And, of course, because its now a universal BA rule, both detachments will have the BA with FC. Ahhh.. I see. Soo.. I can do the following: Detachment 1: An HQ I don't need +1I on, Tactical Squad with Plasma/Multimelta x2 Detachment 2: Librarian on Bike, Tactical Squad with HF, Flamer, CC Scout Squad, Bike Squad, Terminators, Death Company, DC Dread, Furioso, Bike Squad with Plasmaguns Right? 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Some thoughts: Our +initiative buffs are huge, both the detachment rules and Corbulo's new buff. People complaining about losing our fast vehicles have no idea the value we gained in the initiative buffs. Death Company with jump packs are insanely good now. I will be taking at least 20 in a unit (probably with Lemartes) if they can still be fielded in such big units. Tactical squads with heavy flamers have great alpha strike potential with drop pods, especially if they can take 2 in a unit. Dante sounds like he might be a really solid choice now. The AP2 powersword is really good value on any HQ. I think a jump army will be the way I go when the codex drops. A tide of cheap marines with furious charge and initiative 5 will be very hard to stop, especially with some nice psychic support and a force multiplier like Dante. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Sady I think all my Assault Marines are going to be put into storage now. If I want a jump assault unit, I'll be taking DC or SG. If I want a special weapons delivery squad that can punch out weaker units, I'll take bikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'll be going a mixed mecha and drop pod tactical heavy build, with some drop podded counter assault (Furiosos, Death Company and Terminators). I've pretty much made my mind up, except for HQ choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I wouldn't rule out assault squads just yet. Depends a lot on what wargear options they'll get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I won't be running the formation for an extra elites slot if it means I lose Objective Secured. I already run 3 Tactical Squads that castle up, and I have a surgical assault style that goes for enemy troops with Deep Striking Drop Pod Furioso, Drop Pod DC and Terminators rather than all out attack. The Heavy Flamer will be a great addition to my castling strategy. I'll probably get around to painting my 4xML Devs now that we have Flak. Nice. Nothing stopping you from running 1CAD for ObjSec and 1 BA Detachment for Init bonus Would require an additional HQ (130pnt Corbs for FNP bubble?) and 1 more troop - quite comfortably done, no? I am thinking of running dual librarians one in each CAD/Detachment to increase the chance of grabbing invisibility for the Death Company Jump packers. Divination/Telepathy are good disciplines for DC. Maybe even grabbing the psyker Furioso for some extra WC. Invisible Furioso's and Death Company anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 How do you guys plan on dealing with the overcrowded Elites slot? Death Company, Dreadnoughts (of many varieties), Terminators, Sternguard, Vanguard - It's depressing.. I'll probably have to ditch plans of assembling a third dreadnought, disassemble my Sternguard and repurpose into a 5 man Tactical Squad with a Heavy Flamer, and stick to Death Company, 1 Furioso and 1 Terminator squad.. Sad. I'd be surprised if Vanguard are elites. But there is a lot of good stuff in elites, but I hardly ever use any of it anyway. DC will be autoinclude, Sanguinary Guard are a personal favorite. Other than that, I'm fine. For the Detachment/Objective Secured issue we can ally in codex marines to get 1-3 Obj secured troops to support us if we feel we need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Any info about the cost of drop pods? This will also be crucial for me.. I will eventually have to start scratchbuilding some drop pods :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Well, I suppose I don't need to worry about not having many RAS is my collection anymore. My DC army will have to become unbound so it will essentially play the same as before. A Sicaran is now cemented as the thing I need the most, however we need to check with Forgeworld what unit we need to unlock more than one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I will admit I pulled out my Blood Angels last night and looked sadly at my 40 jump Assault Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theduke08 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Anyone know if Vanguards are still in the fast slot? Or are they now in the elites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Anyone know if Vanguards are still in the fast slot? Or are they now in the elites? I keep hearing elites, but haven't seen anything definitive on that. I would assume they would be whatever slot they are in the Space Marine Codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfThunder Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Any info about the cost of drop pods? This will also be crucial for me.. I will eventually have to start scratchbuilding some drop pods :/ SW and SM drop pods are as current BA, so future BA will probably stay the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zembar Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 What I want to know is if BA drop pods are now FA like SW drop pods. Or rather, my GK purifier squad wants to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsijben Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I will admit I pulled out my Blood Angels last night and looked sadly at my 40 jump Assault Marines. I had that too. Then I realised most of them are painted DC-style. Then I realised they are also gone from Troops. I'll find a way, I know I will! At least I can always field Cassus as a Troops-Dread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'm liking the news so far, except the part where SPs can't get TDA. All my trouble converting was for nothing then... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 HQ Librarian sanguinary priest Troops 5xtactical heavy flamer combi flamer drop pod 5xtactical heavy flamer combi flamer drop pod Elites 10xdeath company jump packs thunder hammer power weapon lemartes Furioso dread frag cannon drop pod Fast attack 10xassault marines 2xmelta power weapon melta bomb 10xassault marine 2x flamer power weapon melta bombThis list is around 1500 pts. I think I am going to try it out as soon as the codex comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'm liking the news so far, except the part where SPs can't get TDA. All my trouble converting was for nothing then... :( Same :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfThunder Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Question about the units in deathstorm...those can be included in any BA army?...meaning, the mandatory troop options of a CAD could be Rafen's DC Squad and the named DC dread? That would make jump-only lists still legal (with a tax...)?...In particular DC only lists would still be an option. I guess I'm a bit confused between datalsates and formations, I assumed these were never part of your FOC. If you get a stormwing formation, you don't use up any HS or FA slots, so I don't understand how you can use the dataslates in deathstorm to fill the troop slots either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zembar Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Question about the units in deathstorm...those can be included in any BA army?...meaning, the mandatory troop options of a CAD could be Rafen's DC Squad and the named DC dread? That would make jump-only lists still legal (with a tax...)?...In particular DC only lists would still be an option. I guess I'm a bit confused between datalsates and formations, I assumed these were never part of your FOC. If you get a stormwing formation, you don't use up any HS or FA slots, so I don't understand how you can use the dataslates in deathstorm to fill the troop slots either. Formatiions can't fill FOC slots, but units can. Deathstorm has several units, and one formation containing those units, but you can always take them separately from that formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 How do you guys plan on dealing with the overcrowded Elites slot? Death Company, Dreadnoughts (of many varieties), Terminators, Sternguard, Vanguard - It's depressing.. I'll probably have to ditch plans of assembling a third dreadnought, disassemble my Sternguard and repurpose into a 5 man Tactical Squad with a Heavy Flamer, and stick to Death Company, 1 Furioso and 1 Terminator squad.. :( Sad. Yes this makes me sad too. I think using the Storm Claw formation may be a mainstay for me so I can have troop DC and DC Dread. And here I was originally not planning on getting it!!! My only other sadness is to see Dante go Lord of War since LoW are banned in all local tournaments. But maybe Karl from Storm Claw can represent Nicodemus Dolorosus pulling out his terminator armour? Oops I meant Death Storm when I said storm claw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelus Mortifer Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I think a regular CAD and the Baal Formation in the book will be a pretty cool combination to be honest. A sprinkling of Ob Sec on one side, +1I all the time on the other side, FC across the board, with maybe a sprinkling of +1WS here and there. And that's before working out exactly what units to field until we know points and wargear options. Might give me a headache during the game trying to remember which has what but it's easy to mark one half on the table as you play. These used to be my Red Thirst markers for my units, but now they'll help differentiate my CAD from my add-ons (or vice versa). http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/SebJones_photos/Blood%20Angels/ThirstMarker1a.jpg http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/SebJones_photos/Blood%20Angels/ThirstMarker3a.jpg http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/SebJones_photos/Blood%20Angels/ThirstMarker2a.jpg Also, seeing the reaction to these leaks elsewhere, I so want to explain why this book is shaping up to be really good fun, with some excellent options and variation, but I don't have the energy to argue the point with people... there's just to many of them!!! It's the same pre-release reaction to a new codex that we see time and again, and it's a little bit depressing that this is the default every time. Oh well, I'm happy with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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