TheHarrower Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I hope the Stormraven moved to fast, but in that picture from Black Library of the Fast slot it isn't listed. :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MephistonTheLordOfDeath Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I would like more troops choices like we had before but I think there's been some amazing suggestions in this thread: Take a CAD (Corbs or a Libby dread with 2 tacs) to hold or secure objectives on your end of the table, then use the Baal detachment for the rest of your force. For that I'll likely use tacs with the heavy flamer and vary the other special, and add cassor the damned as my second troop choice, then add DC w/ jps, sang guard, and any of those other elites we seem to now have. Believe me, I'm sad Mephy was neutered a little but with the point cost reduction, and assuming he can take Biomancy still, he can still be a beast on the battle field with iron arm, just like he was since 7th without our new codex. I'm going to miss my 40 assault marines, but I can always field them, but I also have 45 painted DC (35 w/JP and 10 without) that haven't been used at all! It seems like we have a lot of options, and I'm going to adore fielding Dante, and being able to use Mephy in an annual tourney I play in that prohibits HQs over 200 points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 According to naftka, we get three cool relics (there are 5 I think). #1 - a jump pack that lets the unit reroll scatter and cause intercept weapons to fire at snap shot (take that you cheesy riptide feths!!!) #2 - AP2 sword #3 - mastercrafted plasma pistol that doesn't get hot <333333 That jump pack means that riptides can't fire that plasma blast template at the squad with the jump pack bearer due to snap shots <3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 You're forgetting the best relic...a 10-point item that grants the wearer the fear special rule. And all units making checks against the fear check do so at -2 leadership. That is really good! For 10 points, it means that about 40% of the time your opponents will be attacking you at WS1. That means they're hitting you on 5+ in close combat.....so good.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 NATFKA reporting rumor that the third installment of the Shield of Baal campaign features the Necrons and will include both BA and Necron formation data sheets....18 in total. My guess is that BA are getting nine formations and Necrons are getting nine formations. Formations are g00d...lots of good list building options probably headed our way. (as predicted ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 NATFKA reporting rumor that the third installment of the Shield of Baal campaign features the Necrons and will include both BA and Necron formation data sheets....18 in total. My guess is that BA are getting nine formations and Necrons are getting nine formations. Formations are g00d...lots of good list building options probably headed our way. (as predicted :P). I was hoping for a sexy 3rd company led by Tycho in fast land raiders, but since he's dead and nerfed (beating a dead bat :P oh the puns) I doubt he'll get one. But hey, it's bro fist time!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother apocalyptic Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 looks like it will be several different companies of BA from now on. Just to differentiate FOCs and formations Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 NATFKA reporting rumor that the third installment of the Shield of Baal campaign features the Necrons and will include both BA and Necron formation data sheets....18 in total. My guess is that BA are getting nine formations and Necrons are getting nine formations. Formations are g00d...lots of good list building options probably headed our way. (as predicted ). I was hoping for a sexy 3rd company led by Tycho in fast land raiders, but since he's dead and nerfed (beating a dead bat oh the puns) I doubt he'll get one. But hey, it's bro fist time!!! Ya know I didn't use Tycho that much and as positive as I've been about everything else that was changed this is the one thing that REALLY annoys me. Why he had to get the nerf bat I'll never understand. Dumb. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venemox Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 My problem with the move of DC, DC Dread, and ASM out of Troops is that I went from having a plethora of troop choices (multiple differing Sergeants built, tons of built options to choose from), to having 10 Tactical marines and 7 Scouts to fill my mandatory 2 Troops slots with. Without a major rebuild project, I'm fielding an underwhelming core, or going Unbound. I don't think you need a major rebuild project. You already have a tac squad and some scouts. Just buy one of the new tac squad boxes and build yourself a nice 10-man squad with the heavy flamer and you're good to go. Magnetize the sergeant if you want more build options. Additionally, if you want to minimize the troops in your list, just take two 5-man tac squads each with a flakk missile launcher and camp them both on some backfield objectives to earn VPs and provide cheap anti-air. Also, just to point it out, you're forgetting some of the troops options: 1) tac squad 2) scout squad 3) "Cassor the Damned": DC dread from the deathstorm datasheet, fills troop slot 4) "Raphen's Death Company": 5-man DC unit w/ jumppacks (1x TH, 1x power sword, 1s inferno pistol, and 1x PF), fills troops slot The Deathstorm Datasheet is one of the reasons I was almost certain that DC was going to remain in the Troop slot. As for bodies, I have those. I have so many marine sprues it is ridiculous, all I need to do is third party source some bits for weapons and shoulder pads. Without Objective Secured, I can live with a minimized Troop slot. I, too, was hoping the Stormraven would move out of the Heavy Support slot, but I can also deal with running it in a Stormwing Formation, if I need the fliers. Everything said and done, my projects are off the table until I get the new Codex in hand. Then a comprehensive review of what I have and what I need will be performed. Some changes look good (very good), others not so much. I don't like the idea of my Baals competing with my Predators and Vindicators for slot space. It was nice having useful AV 13 in three slots when I wanted to run armor. Additionally, my ASMs now compete for space with my Attack Bikes and Vanguard Veterans. With ASMs lackluster CC performance, what made them useful was running them in droves (5 or 6 full units acting in concert), buffing them with Priests, and being able to write them off as a loss when needed. Conversely, Sticking Mephiston in a unit now is a dream come true (including Dedicated Transport). So is a ten man Sanguinary Guard unit, they always suffered from too few bodies. Now to deal with the cost of that. The Psyker Powers look solid, with a nice Primaris we can rely upon. The randomness of the Red Thirst is not a loss (I always forgot to do this), and the army wide I+1 and Furios Charge are a certain boon. Given what Dreadnoughts are and represent, I'm of the mind they should all be Characters. I am looking forward to some supplements and datasheets, hoping we get something like Chaos Space Marines and Space marines did. I'm not writing off this Codex edition as a nerf or loss, by far. Just an annoyance with regard to Force Org slot reorganization. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 It's 7E....you don't need to worry about units "competing" for slots. Just go with two detachments. Or a detachment and a formation. Two combined arms detachments, for example, and you can run SIX heavy slots and SIX elite slots. Yes, you need to run an extra HQ....but guess what, now you can run TWO librarians for only ~30 points more than it used to cost you to run one. Yes, you need to run four troop choices, but four 5-man tac squads will set you back like 280 points...less if you run scouts. So for roughly 400 points, you can have two HQs and four troops. Then you have the other ~1450 points to fill up whatever six elite/heavy/fast slots you want. Also, as new formations are released, It's very possible there are some that will have some of the units you want....maybe a Baal predator formation, for example. Then, you can just run a list with one CAD and one other formation. Or you just say "heck with CAD" and run the detachment in the BA codex that gives you four elite slots and three heavies....again, combining it with a 2nd detachment or a formation, if needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 WOW there's a lot of hate energy outside of our happy fortress monastery. I'm disappointed about JP ASM and skeptical (and also very excited too)about changes as much as the next, but jeez so much venom just based on rumors. Looking at 7th ed force org more closely, we have a lot of options. I'm sad JP ASM lost OBSec as I like a list with some jumpers, but the option to run them is still there and x2 melta JP ASM are still pretty decent if played correctly. Hopefully with proper cost balancing at least 1 squad might actually be worth it, then then again I'm so used to fielding jumper ASM that they don't feel too terrible to me. Definitely going to try to make JP DC work in a more competitive list with my favorite prescience truck: axe libby. Although Corbs lost his 2+ FNP, his Grail of Fruit Juice gives +1WS to all units within 6" of him, which is SWEET. Might actually be worth taking him and Karl for a 5+ seize the init with a reroll. Just spewing out my thoughts: Cheap 5 man tactical marines with meltagun in a razorback might be the way to go for a competitive core or even a 10 man tac squad with meltagun, heavy flamer, and power axe/sword/claw sergeant in a fast rhino or drop pod. At first I was very skeptical about having a dedicated shooty unit with furious charge. Seems kind of counter intuitive at first. But then again I've seen plenty of chances from other marine armies where they could have benefited from a strong tactical marine charge. A bonus to strength and potentially initiative and weapon skill opens up a HUGE amount of tactical situations. Not only that, the heavy flamer does a decent job at receiving charges with its D3 hits. It appears to me that we are definitely going to have to rely on a close combat support unit to get our tacs out of very difficult CC situations if they get charged. This is where our jump pack DC, or dare I say Sanguinary Guard, come in. Hide them behind our fast rhinos and jump out to support where needed! Have a librarian and sanguinary priest for support, a few MM attack bikes(with furious charge? lol) for tank killin' and soaking overwatch and you've got yourself a synergistic list. I'm really looking forward to digging into our rules and discussing our core strengths with you guys. It's going to be a good Sanguinala Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I've got dibs on the double tactical drop pod squad idea so neener neener :P you can all acknowledge my creed level strategery I am super excited to try it out with corb's popping in with a squad of death company in a pod too because it makes for such a large threat in the enemy's backfield and can switch between cc and shooting. Even the tacs and the DC will get hella benefits from +1 S/WS/I from Corbulo and the FOC and assault. If only we could give them additional ccws too...man have I been spoiled by 30k lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Wait hold the phone can we run to Baal strike forces? If we can then we have access to six fast attack choices which means we can run our assualt squads unfortunatly they don't have objective secured but who cares when you get 27 strength 5 attacks at initiative 5. Also we can legally run a terminator army now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Was pretty shocked to see all the anger and tears in the comments on naftka. People, probably grown men, crying about the codex being a nerf purely because ASM lost obsec. I'm willing to bet the haters haven't played BA in a while. Obsec isn't the over-riding power rule they think it is. After only a handful of maelstrom games even I know this. Rock on, B&C, show 'em who the real Sons of Sanguinius are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I've got dibs on the double tactical drop pod squad idea so neener neener you can all acknowledge my creed level strategery http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/I+made+this_e19c3a_4960704.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverson Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I think I have played about 15 games of 7th and objective secured has made a difference in only 1 game and then it was for 1 victory point. The majority of the time I find that the attacking unit is confident enough that they can beat the unit on the objective to warrant attacking them. And if not that's what supporting fire is for. I can't wait to get a hold of our new codex and see everything first. Then see how many of my favourite units I Can fit into a list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3884996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Was pretty shocked to see all the anger and tears in the comments on naftka. People, probably grown men, crying about the codex being a nerf purely because ASM lost obsec. I'm willing to bet the haters haven't played BA in a while. Obsec isn't the over-riding power rule they think it is. After only a handful of maelstrom games even I know this. Rock on, B&C, show 'em who the real Sons of Sanguinius are. I think a lot of people are still playing Eternal War missions where last turn objective grabs with obsec troops is still a thing. People should really be playing Maelstrom by now. I'd much, much rather have (scoring !) DC and SG units with +1I than obsec ASM. Speed and Assault Capability > Obsec in Maelstrom I do think jump based lists got a lot stronger Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3885045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I do think jump based lists got a lot stronger I'm in agreement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3885048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 ObSec is nice, of course, but I've always found it difficult enough to get to the objectives in the first place that it hardly ever comes into play. I'm almost certainly going to be running the delicious new +1 I FOC rather than a CAD. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3885052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairojin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Am I the only one thinking about putting a sanguinary priest in a bike squad? WS5, I5, S5, T5 bikers with FNP! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3885053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Am I the only one thinking about putting a sanguinary priest in a bike squad? WS5, I5, S5, T5 bikers with FNP! Only if they can take bikes with the new dex. don't know if it has been leaked or not whether we can take bike sang priests. If not just give him a jump pack Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3885057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairojin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Am I the only one thinking about putting a sanguinary priest in a bike squad? WS5, I5, S5, T5 bikers with FNP! Only if they can take bikes with the new dex. don't know if it has been leaked or not whether we can take bike sang priests. If not just give him a jump pack True, I think I saw somewhere that he could take a bike but can't find it in the warseer thread so I don't know if it's part of the leak or just wish listing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3885060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 It was definitely mentioned earlier than you can bike him, and you can't put him in terminator armor. The source is gone from my memory though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3885062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 It was definitely mentioned earlier than you can bike him, and you can't put him in terminator armor. The source is gone from my memory though. It was on Warseer, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3885066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Am I the only one thinking about putting a sanguinary priest in a bike squad? WS5, I5, S5, T5 bikers with FNP! I'm considering it, but leaning more towards a Biker Captain with Artificer Armor and Lightning Claw (Or Relic Blade/Carmine Blade etc.) since I'm going for the Baal formation, which means I get the +1I +1S anyway. If I get a priest, it will be in the Command Squad (hoping it's available as part of the Command Squad) because that means WS6 S5 I6 Company Champion with a Power Weapon.. Bring on the duels. (If no Initiate in the Command Squad, I'll have to take a Command Squad for a Sanguinary Priest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299805-the-new-what-will-2014-bring-thread/page/64/#findComment-3885067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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