The NEW "What will 2014 Bring?" thread

[appiah4]

I'm seeing options.... Lots and lots of options!

 

Loving the Idea of a fully deep striking army led by a Large Sang Guard Squad with Dante and Death company, supported by Cheap Librarians!

 

How ever looking at what we know so far my most successful 6th ed list is actually still useable, in actual fact it has gotten cheaper!

 

Use to Run

 

Librarian (Cheaper)

2 Melta assasin squads in pods (cheaper)

2 Frag cannon dreads in pods (same price)

10 Man assault squad with JP (Cheaper)

1 Sternguard squad (Not confirmed probably same price)

 

Mephiston is always added to the list, hes alot cheaper now but he does not work the same way so I might have to rethink my old list, but most of it will still work, just need to teak a few things!

 

You can just replace him with Sanguinor it seems.  If Mephiston worked for you in 6th, Sanguinor will get the same job done in 7th.

[SonOfThunder]

The fragiosos have lost the additional S8 AP1 shot, so now I'm thinking heavy flamer instead of melta is the way to go. I've always run them with grapple and melta, but this weekend I'll try them out with HF and see how they fare. I'm sure my tyranid opponent will be really happy, specially with Dante making pods scatter D6

You can just replace him with Sanguinor it seems. If Mephiston worked for you in 6th, Sanguinor will get the same job done in 7th.

Just compare Sanguinor and Dante and see what you get for 20 more points. The only reason not to grab Dante instead is if you want to put something else in your LoW slot. And still none of them can compare with what Meph could become with biomancy. But Dante has AP2 :)

[appiah4]

Actually, I think losing S8 AP1 from the grapple makes the meltagun a lot more crucial for making the Fragrioso a little versatile.  Without that, opening up transports and popping armor will be very difficult with just relying on A2 S10 melee.  The Frag Cannon by itself should on average kill enough models that you wouldn't miss a HF that much..

[BloodTzar]

Hello brothers,

 

as usual I have stopped playing 40k, once the power-creep has been introduced by GW, however I must say this codex is something that has put some balance back into the game. I am very happy we didnt get crap (WOLF-SANTA) like SW did.

 

Overall, very balanced codex, I must say I am again willing to spend some money on GW.

 

On the other hand, I would like to ask following;

 

1) Any change to frag cannons?

2) Grav for ASM?

3) Sang-Termies what are they good at / different from normal ones?

 

Thank you

~BT

[sockwithaticket]

Regarding positive, negative or neutral reactions to the codex I think it depends an awful lot on which codex you first picked up.

A lot of the positive responses seem to be from (dare I say) veteran Blood Angels who started in 3rd or earlier whereas those who started with 5th and were very much introduced to the Descent of Angels brand of Blood Angels are a bit more negative about the changes that have occurred to that identity and play style.

If I could analogise it I'd say it's like bands that change a bit between each album, you might keep liking the sounds that come out because they are similar, but in your head their 'true' sound (perhaps 'best' sound) is the album of theirs you first heard and made you like them. For example I own and like all of the albums Norma Jean and Thrice have put out, but the albums of theirs I absolutely love and view as being the best realisation of what I perceive to be their sound are Redeemer and Vheissu respectively; these also happen to be the albums I first bought and listened to. Everything from their catalogue before and after are slight deviations of these sounds and so I still like them (hell, I love some), but they're not what to me is the original. Like I say, I think we have a situation where the codex you first got into is the one you'll always think of as representing your army most accurately and how much you like subsequent codices will correspond with how close they are to your first one.

It's a massive generalisation, of course, and if you're an older player who loved the 5th codex or a more recent player who prefers the changes feel free to tell me I'm talking out of my backside. Just thought I'd share the observation.

As someone who started with BA in 3rd, but was probably too young to really appreciate all the background and character of the chapter as portrayed in that codex, and came back while the 5th ed. one was in effect I feel caught between the two camps and don't really know how to feel about it all! The only thing I know for certain is that the Tycho changes make me a sad panda and that I'm going to have to spend a while rewriting the word document that serves as an ongoing army list. Also as a painter-modeller type, none of this actually has much bearing on me, but it does mean that the grav bits I acquired with the vanilla kits won;t have to languish in my bits box forever.

[appiah4]

Hello brothers,

 

as usual I have stopped playing 40k, once the power-creep has been introduced by GW, however I must say this codex is something that has put some balance back into the game. I am very happy we didnt get crap (WOLF-SANTA) like SW did.

 

Overall, very balanced codex, I must say I am again willing to spend some money on GW.

 

On the other hand, I would like to ask following;

 

1) Any change to frag cannons?

2) Grav for ASM?

3) Sang-Termies what are they good at / different from normal ones?

 

Thank you

~BT

 

Frag Cannons remain the same but now cost 10pts 5pts

Apparently ASM can get Grav but aside from the Grav Pistol they don't make much sense for the squad?

Not sure what you refer to as Sang-Termies, as there are no special Terminator squads in the codex, just Assault Terminators that can take a Company Banner for 10 pts.

[BloodTzar]

 

Hello brothers,

 

as usual I have stopped playing 40k, once the power-creep has been introduced by GW, however I must say this codex is something that has put some balance back into the game. I am very happy we didnt get crap (WOLF-SANTA) like SW did.

 

Overall, very balanced codex, I must say I am again willing to spend some money on GW.

 

On the other hand, I would like to ask following;

 

1) Any change to frag cannons?

2) Grav for ASM?

3) Sang-Termies what are they good at / different from normal ones?

 

Thank you

~BT

 

Frag Cannons remain the same but now cost 10pts

Apparently ASM can get Grav but aside from the Grav Pistol they don't make much sense for the squad?

Not sure what you refer to as Sang-Termies, as there are no special Terminator squads in the codex, just Assault Terminators that can take a Company Banner for 10 pts.

 

Thank you very much for the info.

 

I was hoping for some dual grav suicide sq, jumping around and shooting all the nasty stuff :) 

 

I have seen rumors, that here are some SANG-termies (command sq. termies) I was wondering if they are just regular termies or something like DA have?

[SonOfThunder]

1) Melta bomb price instead of free, stats are the same.

2) No idea

3) The kit is more expensive :)

 

Back to fragiosos: a single melta shot feels too random to rely on it. The flamer synergises with the frag cannon to make first blood more likely, and also helps in overwatch to thin down units that could assault the dread and bog it down for the rest of the game. Tis al theory-crafting mind you :) Still want to give it a try see how it performs.

[Jorre]

This might be a bit Ranty so I apologise, but we are starting to get a few blind stick in the muds posting the same garbage!

 

Honestly all these people complaining about Blood Angels loosing their flavour?? Really are you that blind or are you just regurgitating what you've heard other people say on the popular blogs ?

 

Assault marines are no longer troops, ok I know it sucks! You can no longer take a complete Jump pack only list, but to be honest that list has not been remotely competative since 5th ed and guess what if its that important to you you still have the option of running it, it will just be an unbound list! Guess what else! an unbound list with our new dex will be 10x more competative than our old 5th ed list running a Battle Forged list. So please get over it!! We have all the same units we used to have all the selection options we used to have, pretty much EVERYTHING has either improved or stayed the same. The only difference is some units have changed force org slots.

 

This new Codex has more viable units in it that any other codex we have had before. How that means we have less flavour is beyond me! If you think I am wrong please tell me how we are loosing our flavour? Now that we can actually take Death company with jump packs, Sanguinary Guard are cheap enough to consider using! Assault marines are cheaper! Tanks all still have fast if you want them to OR you can have normal ones and not pay the tax!

 

I cant wait to get my hands on this book and chew the crap out of its flavourful pages!

[ElectricPaladin]

This might be a bit Ranty so I apologise, but we are starting to get a few blind stick in the muds posting the same garbage!

 

Honestly all these people complaining about Blood Angels loosing their flavour?? Really are you that blind or are you just regurgitating what you've heard other people say on the popular blogs ?

 

Assault marines are no longer troops, ok I know it sucks! You can no longer take a complete Jump pack only list, but to be honest that list has not been remotely competative since 5th ed and guess what if its that important to you you still have the option of running it, it will just be an unbound list! Guess what else! an unbound list with our new dex will be 10x more competative than our old 5th ed list running a Battle Forged list. So please get over it!! We have all the same units we used to have all the selection options we used to have, pretty much EVERYTHING has either improved or stayed the same. The only difference is some units have changed force org slots.

 

This new Codex has more viable units in it that any other codex we have had before. How that means we have less flavour is beyond me! If you think I am wrong please tell me how we are loosing our flavour? Now that we can actually take Death company with jump packs, Sanguinary Guard are cheap enough to consider using! Assault marines are cheaper! Tanks all still have fast if you want them to OR you can have normal ones and not pay the tax!

 

I cant wait to get my hands on this book and chew the crap out of its flavourful pages!

 

I just posted pretty much this exact rant over in the equivalent thread on BoLS... I was thinking posting it here, but... you got this.

[Sans Mercy]

Been lurking the last few weeks to let you vet speculate and hash out whats going down.
I'm absolutely thrilled at the new dex and its prospects, cheaper units and new bells and whistles!
FAR overshadowing being a little bummed about assault marines being moved back to fast (just don't think that would have broke the dex), we're getting:
Affordable SG
Affordable jump DC
Dante, who will no long be a overpriced 'strikes last window licker', plus EW :)
HQ Libby Dread that will help with my MC issues
Pretty sick tactical marines with heavy flamers
Badass relics
Noice formations
ect,ect.

I hope I can get some of these cry baby's models from ebay at a good deal.

Since we're wishing I kinda hope termies can take drop pods like the Space Wolves for guaranteed battlefield delivery.

[Ushtarador]

Back to fragiosos: a single melta shot feels too random to rely on it. The flamer synergises with the frag cannon to make first blood more likely, and also helps in overwatch to thin down units that could assault the dread and bog it down for the rest of the game. Tis al theory-crafting mind you Still want to give it a try see how it performs.

You must consider that in 7th the killzone of your flamer and frag cannon is only 8" though! Also, since one is resolved before the other, you will end up covering a lot less models with your flamer. For that reason alone the melta will probably always be the better choice.

[knife&fork]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Great minds and all that :p

Back to fragiosos: a single melta shot feels too random to rely on it. The flamer synergises with the frag cannon to make first blood more likely, and also helps in overwatch to thin down units that could assault the dread and bog it down for the rest of the game. Tis al theory-crafting mind you Still want to give it a try see how it performs.

I think either could work, but I see the frag cannon as a generalist weapon, not strict anti (light) infantry like the heavy flamer. Plus with 7th ed wound allocation rules being what they are I don't think we get the same return on dual template weapons as we used to.

Remember that both these weapons want to get as many models under the template as possible, so in many instances you get negative synergy (is that a thing?) since the second weapons will be weakened by the first.

This might be a bit Ranty....

Dude, calm down.

People with smaller model collections might have gotten their armies completely invalidated. You seem happy about the new codex so don't attack those who lost something they liked in the update, spread that joy and positive energy in a constructive way.

Also, see below.

A bit. Unfortunately it's been a trend to remove those quirky rules that give adds character to individual units.

Over all though I don't think BA has suffered as an army. We have a unique flair and will play very differently from other PA books.

[Jorre]

I know its a lot worse pretty much everywhere else..... I just really hope the internets negativity doesn't creep in here!

 

Or maybe it is that bad and im just to big a Blood Angel Fanboy to see it!

[Spagunk]

I started in 3rd edition and my chief complaint is more along the lines of consistent vision.

 

For an analogy, I used to play WoW as a Paladin. Now it was fun being a dps bunny for no other reason than to just smacking things around and casting spells. However each major release saw a complete shift in how the class played. The root is that ultimately the company did not have any idea what they wanted to do with the class. So rather than come up with a consistent plan of how they want the guy to play, they kept messing with different ideas and schemes. This was one of my major issues that caused me to quit the game. I didn't want to "Play someone else" nor did I want to adapt because I already spent considerable time doing so every single major release. It's very much a "straw that broke the camels back" situation.

 

Yet again, I am presented this scenario. Both sides have valid arguments. I don't disparage those who are coming into this with fresher eyes than me. My problem is that I have no idea if next year they plan on completely revamping the army again or scrapping builds 3 months from now. It's frustration with the idea that GW doesn't have a consistent vision on what blood angels are. Are they the jump pack dudes? ground assault dudes? shooty dudes who have sparkly skin? Nothing seems consistent.

 

So in my opinion, I remain cynical about the newest codex. Mostly because it is frustrating to know that the game's vision of the army will never by what I want it to be nor what I currently believe them to be due to the whims of whomever decides differently next time around.

 

Does it prevent me from playing? Not really.

Does this mean I am not buying anything? No, because these figures are amazing

Will I continue to be sour about this? Yeah.

Am I wrong for feeling this way? I don't believe so. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion so I should not be lambasted for my own.

[appiah4]

Since we're wishing I kinda hope termies can take drop pods like the Space Wolves for guaranteed battlefield delivery.

 

You can take Drop Pods as FA and Terminators can deploy inside them, like SW.  So the short answer is yes, long answer is if you're willing to sacrifice an FA slot.

 

My FA slots are all empty, but my pods are reserved for Furiosos and Death Company, so I'll just teleport them in.

[Ushtarador]

People with smaller model collections might have gotten their armies completely invalidated.

I don't really get that though, at worst they need to paint 10 scouts and they have a battleforged army again. And people with more than 30 ASM definitely don't qualify for a "smaller collection" anymore there is absolutely no reason why you can't play full jumper armies anymore, those 10 scouts are paid by the price reduction on the ASM alone.

[Lucien Eilam]

People with smaller model collections might have gotten their armies completely invalidated. (Slight exaggeration since unbound is possible, but you know what I mean)

Unless their collection was so small it consisted of a converted Sanguinary Priest in Terminator armour, which is apparently no longer a unit option, how is that possible?

[Blindhamster]

Regarding positive, negative or neutral reactions to the codex I think it depends an awful lot on which codex you first picked up.

 

A lot of the positive responses seem to be from (dare I say) veteran Blood Angels who started in 3rd or earlier whereas those who started with 5th and were very much introduced to the Descent of Angels brand of Blood Angels are a bit more negative about the changes that have occurred to that identity and play style.

 

If I could analogise it I'd say it's like bands that change a bit between each album, you might keep liking the sounds that come out because they are similar, but in your head their 'true' sound (perhaps 'best' sound) is the album of theirs you first heard and made you like them. For example I own and like all of the albums Norma Jean and Thrice have put out, but the albums of theirs I absolutely love and view as being the best realisation of what I perceive to be their sound are Redeemer and Vheissu respectively; these also happen to be the albums I first bought and listened to. Everything from their catalogue before and after are slight deviations of these sounds and so I still like them (hell, I love some), but they're not what to me is the original. Like I say, I think we have a situation where the codex you first got into is the one you'll always think of as representing your army most accurately and how much you like subsequent codices will correspond with how close they are to your first one.

 

It's a massive generalisation, of course, and if you're an older player who loved the 5th codex or a more recent player who prefers the changes feel free to tell me I'm talking out of my backside. Just thought I'd share the observation.

 

As someone who started with BA in 3rd, but was probably too young to really appreciate all the background and character of the chapter as portrayed in that codex, and came back while the 5th ed. one was in effect I feel caught between the two camps and don't really know how to feel about it all! The only thing I know for certain is that the Tycho changes make me a sad panda and that I'm going to have to spend a while rewriting the word document that serves as an ongoing army list. Also as a painter-modeller type, none of this actually has much bearing on me, but it does mean that the grav bits I acquired with the vanilla kits won;t have to languish in my bits box forever.

I agree on what you say, essentially whats happened (and I alluded to it in a post a few days back) is Jervis was involved in all the codeci up till 5th ed. if you look at those they are actually pretty consistent in style. Then Ward wrote the 5th ed and its quite different overall. This means anywone coming in the later years are going to be surprised when Jervis takes the lead (on all codeci again) and things get a bit more 'old school'.

 

as a 'veteran' (angels of death) I love the new codex!

[appiah4]

And praised be Jervis for that.

[ElectricPaladin]

Personally, I'm looking forward to reading the fluff. I understand the debate on Ward's rules - they were bombastic, but they could be fun - but the man's fluff... . I wonder what de-Warded Blood Angels are going to read like...

[JamesI]

Personally, I'm looking forward to reading the fluff. I understand the debate on Ward's rules - they were bombastic, but they could be fun - but the man's fluff... . I wonder what de-Warded Blood Angels are going to read like...

I really dislike the Astorath fluff (from the 5th book) in particular, but we know the character is staying around. I hope that characters story got improved.

[Karhedron]

I have been mulling over the different flavours of jump infantry we have available now and I am trying to work out what roles each one is best suited to as well as what squad sizes could work well. This is just random musing so far but I would appreciate thoughts.

 

Death Company: Probably our best assault unit in terms of bang for buck. If you are playing pick-up or tournement games and don't know what your opponent will be, a decent sized unit of these guys with a few melee weapons and possibly a chaplain of some sort will be very good. If you want to go DC heavy then a large unit led by Astorath should kick all kinds of booty.

 

Sanguinary Guard: The cream of our assault units, I can see 2 main uses here. A large unit with a few melee upgrades designed to take on elite enemy units. This unit is expensive and vulnerable to AP2 shooting so I think a Sanguinary Priest to provide FNP and a +1WS will be essential to protect your investment. The other option is a smaller squad with infernus pistols and use them to DS and target enemy armour. This really needs Dante to work well as you will need DoA to prevent excessive scatter.

 

Assault Marines: Depending on the exact options, special weapons delivery may be the name of the day for these guys. I am thinking a couple of 5-man squads in free pods with as much melta as they can carry to deliver the traditional alpha-strike. I just cannot see these guys as front-line close-combat squads as they don't hit hard enough. For a few extra points, you can get the much better Death Company.

 

Vanguard Vets: Not clear on the best role for these guys as they clearly compete with Death Company. Maybe their wargear options will give them some specialised uses but nothing springs to mind for these guys at the moment.

 

Command Squad: Jump packs available here. I think these guys also work well in the special-weapons delivery role. With all the melta available elsewhere in the army, I think that Grav guns may be where these guys excel. Possibly DSing in with a character with the special jump pack to target MCs or elite infantry. The longer range of Grav compared to melta means that scattering is a bit less of an issue with these guys. Melta is probably better in pods or with access to DoA.

 

Anyone have any other thoughts on our various jumpy options?

[Cyrox]

It all sounds fantastic to me

 

I've played Blood Angels since the RT era, and I'm glad yo can no longer take a full JP army

 

If all this is true, then Blood Angels have gone back to how they were originally envisioned, and It looks like its going to be brilliant

 

Still not keen on Astorath mind, but only for fluff reasons

[knife&fork]

People with smaller model collections might have gotten their armies completely invalidated.

I don't really get that though, at worst they need to paint 10 scouts and they have a battleforged army again. And people with more than 30 ASM definitely don't qualify for a "smaller collection" anymore there is absolutely no reason why you can't play full jumper armies anymore, those 10 scouts are paid by the price reduction on the ASM alone.

Maybe they hate scouts, eh? Maybe scout models killed their entire family?!

YOU DON'T KNOW, OK??!!

It could actually be a lot more work than that, considering the force org swapping that's being going on.

Anyway, just let those people vent and move on. We don't get the worst of it here and there's no reason to escalate things.