The Slowly-Trickling Doses of the Horus Heresy

[Phoebus]

The 2014 Advent Calendar recently released "Holder of the Keys", by Gav Thorpe.  "Holder" came relatively shortly after "By the Lion's Command" and "Master of the First", also by Mr. Thorpe, which itself built on "Grey Angel", by John French.  "Holder" is set in the 40k period, but it fits in rather nicely with the Heresy-era tales purporting to show what happened with Caliban, Luther, etc.

 

Each of these has been a rather enjoyable story.  I don't fault the quality of any of them, individually. As a whole, however, they are a poor format for telling a tale that really deserves a proper entry in the Heresy series.  We should be getting a comprehensive look at what should be a fascinating story: the tale of how an idealistic champion driven to protect his homeworld from tyranny fell to Chaos and dragged his battle-brothers with him.  Instead, we're getting little "snapshots" into these events.

 

This is even more frustrating given that Fallen Angels followed the lead of Descent of Angels and took the easy route of just hiding everything from the reader and providing virtually no resolution where events on Caliban were concerned.  The theme seems to be "secrecy for the sake of preserving the theme of secrets", as opposed to giving the readers a good story.

 

That same principle applies - though to a lesser extent - to "Herald of Sanguinius", by Andy Smilie.

 

WARNING!  Though I'll put any details in spoilers, just general conversation about the content of this story amounts to a spoiler.  Don't read on if you don't want to be inadvertently tipped off.

 

Anyone interested in the Blood Angels knows that, beyond the Red Thirst and the Black Rage, there are few plot angles and even fewer mysteries.  Well, one of them, namely ...

 

 

... Sanguinor ...

 

 

... is the "big reveal" in this story.

 

While "Herald" itself is interesting and sheds some light on the mentality of the Sanguinary Guard and how they go about things, the context for this "big reveal" is an utter disappointment.  I repeat, one of the few mysteries left to the Blood Angels was "relegated" to a 19-minute audio drama that, for the most part, serves as an "intermission cameo" for Azkaellon, Sanguinius, and the Lion.  I don't know if it merited a novella of its own, much less a novel, but it surely could have been a major, major part of a future Blood Angels-centered Heresy novel.

 

More than once, we have been told that there are a thousand different fights going on during the Age of Darkness, and not just the main battles that we knew of from the old Index Astartes series.  One of the coolest, most refreshing things about Book III of Forge World's Horus Heresy series was the focus on the Battle of Paramour.  We got to see a campaign that was not fought by "big name" characters, but which nonetheless gave us a very good idea of what the Warmaster's strategy and priorities were about.

 

I really wish all these audio dramas, e-shorts, and short stories would focus on that sort of event - even if it must involve Corswain - instead of being used to tell what is really one of the two big stories of the Dark Angels during the Heresy period.  The same, of course, applies for the Blood Angels.

Rant over...

[Sothalor]

That's one of my big gripes with the way BL seems to be taking the Horus Heresy line these days. Too little content, too little storyline progression, spread across too many little overpriced bits, bobs, and formats. Limited edition novella this, audio drama that. Microshort here, event-exclusive story there.

Frankly, it's too much effort to try to keep track of everything for what feels like a stagnating storyline.

And in the meantime the full-length novel line (which I feel is the primary form of consumption for most of the audience - if I'm wrong please correct me) is putting out stuff like Damnation of Pythos, which does nothing to move the plot forward. Why wasn't that a side story or audio drama, and a piece exploring Sanguinius and his role as emperor of Imperium Secundus a novel? Because it's not like he's got a big role in the Heresy or anything, right? It's not like he faces down a bloodthirster at the gates of the Imperial Palace on Terra or accompanies the Emperor on his teleport assault on the Vengeful Spirit. It's not like his sacrifice potentially weakens Horus to the extent that the Emperor is ultimately able to defeat him, right?

But oh no, the Shattered Legion guys who all die in their first and only appearance in a nameless chunk of space and contribute nothing, better give them the hardcover novel!

I just don't get Black Library these days. A lot of the HH novel line is already up and down with the quality (subjective, I know). Then they further split the content up across all these formats and availability. Neither do they announce ahead of time or give previews of what's to come. I mean, would it really kill them to make announcements like "We have such and such title/arc in the works. Expect to see X and Y Legions, or this and that character"? Is there a compelling business reason to do such a thing? Every other publisher I know of tends to announce upcoming titles, especially if it's a series that's managed to make the NY Times bestseller list!

TL:DR; BL, why you make it so uncompelling for me to give you money?

Okay, rant over from me as well.

[Phoebus]

And in the meantime the full-length novel line (which I feel is the primary form of consumption for most of the audience - if I'm wrong please correct me) is putting out stuff like Damnation of Pythos, which does nothing to move the plot forward. Why wasn't that a side story or audio drama, and a piece exploring Sanguinius and his role as emperor of Imperium Secundus a novel? ...

But oh no, the Shattered Legion guys who all die in their first and only appearance in a nameless chunk of space and contribute nothing, better give them the hardcover novel!

That's exactly how I felt after Damnation of Pythos. Don't get me wrong, there was a lot about it that I liked (besides the frankly rather dull dinosaur enemy) but I couldn't understand why this was Book Thirty in the Horus Heresy series*.

* To be fair, I felt the same way about Descent of Angels and The Outcast Dead.

[Chaeron]

I think the slowness is for the long rumoured rate of progression: lots of authors being very busy means they can't bring out things as quickly as they'd like.

 

It means, in short, lots of shorts and other formats to fill time in between. Let it all settle down in a year or two: and I think we'll see the resumption of breakneck pace.

[Perrin]

I think the slowness is for the long rumoured rate of progression: lots of authors being very busy means they can't bring out things as quickly as they'd like.

 

It means, in short, lots of shorts and other formats to fill time in between. Let it all settle down in a year or two: and I think we'll see the resumption of breakneck pace.

 

Maybe, but money is also a factor. We all knew from the beginning of the series that BL/GW could very well turn it into a setting rather than a series in order to pump as much money out of fans as possible.

 

I still think that they will finish the series, but I doubt they'll stop putting out audio books, shorts, LE novellas etc as they make a lot of extra money. They are going to milk this cash cow for all it's worth.

[Kriegsmacht]

I've mostly been focusing on Audio Dramas now as my interest in the novels has gone down. I was already picking and choosing novels to read after the first 5 and after Betrayer my interest is almost gone. The only novel i'm interested in getting is The Unremembered Empire(yes a little slow on getting that one) 'cause it's about something new/different that I havn't read before in 40k or HH.

 

I would prefer if the stories were longer. I haven't bought Herald of Sanguinius yet but you would think something of that importance(his role as the new Emperor) and the reveal would have been at least 60 minutes long if not a novel.

 

At this point it will take a novel about a big and important event that will make me go "Oh wow I need to read that". Until then i'll get my fill in the Dramas.

[helterskelter]

Theres still tons that can be covered other than the heresy, a badab war series, the nova terra interregnum, it doesn't require to be dragged out kicking and screaming especially when the final battle is easily going to be a trilogy of epic proportions. Obviously certain things need to be done to line this up, I wouldn't be suprised if the series hit 50 books with novellas on top of that (assumption that shorts get anthologised and the audios get written up as per previous form)

[Kriegsmacht]

I wouldn't mind a series(no doesn't have to be 30 books or more!!) on the Age of Apostasy.

[Phoebus]

I think the slowness is for the long rumoured rate of progression: lots of authors being very busy means they can't bring out things as quickly as they'd like.

 

It means, in short, lots of shorts and other formats to fill time in between. Let it all settle down in a year or two: and I think we'll see the resumption of breakneck pace.

 

Don't be deceived by the "slowly" part of my title; the topic is mostly about the "trickling" bit. That is, about Black Library taking key parts of the storyline and the background and showcasing them in a poor format.  I could care less if, e.g., a "fall of Caliban"-centered novel takes X amounts of months or years to come out; it's still better than getting a dozen e-shorts, short stories, or 18-minute audio dramas that are designed primarily to "pass the time in-between main releases" rather than to tell a cohesive story.

[Tymell]

An interesting topic, and one I have my own feelings on, some echoing others, some disputing.

I definitely agree on the recent over-emphasis of short stories, audios, etc. I enjoy them, and I definitely think they have their place. But their place should be to enhance and expand on what the core of the series, the novels, lays down. Compare and contrast Mark of Calth vs. the recent bits we've had on Imperium Secundus. Mark of Calth was, in my opinion, an example of how to do a set of short stories right: it expanded upon what Know No Fear gave us. Most of the stories fit nicely in with that novel in some form, and thus it all had good context right from the go.

The Imperium Secundus shorts have still been decent enough, but they don't have that context. Unremembered Empire itself didn't actually fulfil much of it's promise on that front, since the entire second half of the novel had next to nothing to -do- with the concept of Imperium Secundus, and now we're getting all these snippets that don't have much to be based upon. They feel like they're expanding on something we haven't properly seen yet. Short stories and audios should be used to enhance the novels, plugging gaps, bridging stories, expanding characters and plot threads, but not to replace them.

Not helping is also that 2014 was a very quiet year for actual novels: Scars was already out in 2013 (just not in print), Legacies of Betrayal was an anthology, and one of pre-existing material, Death and Defiance was a novella-sized anthology. The only actual novels we got were Vengeful Spirit and The Damnation of Pythos, and while I enjoyed both, that's not a lot. Most years have seen 3 or 4 novels.

Now, in fairness, I wouldn't say this is something to entirely lay at the feet of Black Library itself. Any authors working for them feel free to correct me, but my understanding is that it's not so much BL assigning stuff to authors as it is the authors creating what they want. ADB for example has said that Master of Mankind is taking a bit of a backseat for the moment since he's not really feeling the Heresy so much right now. Of course, that's also not to say BL have no control over it. Just that I don't think it's them controlling every aspect of it.

Regarding the overall timeline, I do feel the argument of "The story isn't progressing" gets thrown around way too much. For one thing, it's hard to even measure since prior to the series we basically had "Isstvan - Terra - end". The storyline is progressing, it's just moving through events we previously hadn't seen, so it's hard to define. It's also further muddied by the fact that things do go back and forth a lot: while the storyline does progress overall, we do see stories that go back further (Damnation of Pythos being a good example, since it takes place just after Isstvan V). But according to the time references we've had, we're in year 31,010 by now, with Imperium Secundus being the big plot point right now. And personally, I don't mind novels going further back myself: a good story is a good story, I'm in no rush for it to finish, so long as what we get is good.

And on the Dark Angels themselves, I also agree their coverage has been very spotty. They had two novels early on, and then since then a swathe of short stories. Unfortunately this, along with just how many authors have done them and how weak their early looks were, has left the legion and their primarch with no real clear identity or culture. On the plus side, they are supposed to be getting not one, but two novels sometime: "Angels of Caliban" from Gav Thorpe and "Dreadwing" from Dan Abnett (both, as far as I know, working titles). Though with Dan Abnett's schedule we might not be getting his for some time But I'm hoping one or both will help give the First Legion a bit more of a coherent identity and focus.

[Phoebus]

Qualifiers:

 

I'm really not worried about storyline progression.  I'm fine with the authors taking their time and doing the Heresy justice.  I questioned the value of focusing one of this year's two novels on characters disconnected from the larger storyline, whom we would never see again.

 

On the Dark Angels, I don't think they are lacking identity or culture now.  A D-B and Abnett fixed that.

 

On the other hand, as time passes I feel Descent of Angels should never have been.  That's not a knock on Mitch Scanlon, per se; any Legion "prequel" following on the heels of the first five books that didn't also add massive context to the Heresy would have gotten a "golly gee?" reception.  Compare with Legion, for instance.

 

A "Caliban prequel" of sorts should have featured either in a novella or a coordinated series of short stories and audiobooks (but not the disjointed stuff we've actually gotten), but not as a Heresy novel.  Fallen Angels could have easily served in its stead.  Come to think of it, "Savage Weapons". The Lion, and Prince of Crows put together would have made a phenomenal Dark Anges/Night Lords novel with a little re-writing.

[Perrin]

I don't know if any posters here are fans of both 40k and WHFB but the comparison between the two right now is astounding.

For me, the HH was so great because it had real galaxy-wide progression where-as 40k is paused at a minute to midnight. That's fine, and there is still room for so many stories, but there is never that feeling of anything mattering that much. Any book or series set in 40k isn't going to have some huge, status-quo changing event, because that isn't how that setting roles. Unfortunately, now I think the HH is starting to go down that road. TDoP was the first HH novel I haven't bought, I read the reviews and reactions online and thought well, what's the point? I haven't actually got any HH novels/media since then actually, although it has only been those anthologies I think?

WHFB is all of a sudden leaping forward, with bunches of staple characters getting slaughtered every time the End Times series advances.

Sure, it's bat crazy, but it is a lot more entertaining than the HH is right now (imo).

[Tymell]

TDoP was the first HH novel I haven't bought, I read the reviews and reactions online and thought well, what's the point?

In fairness to it, I would recommend Damnation of Pythos. It's a good book. True, it is set several years prior to the current main point in the storyline, but that doesn't make it any less or worse a story. Likewise, it not containing a primarch or first captain or some such doesn't make it bad. Unremembered Empire advanced the story and had plenty of big-name characters, and I liked DoP a lot more than that.

[Phoebus]

Pythos has a lot of positive things to recommend it.  The problem with it isn't just that it doesn't "progress"the story, or that the characters aren't Big Names of the Heresy.  The problem is that it's not even implied that we'll see them again.  And while I can guess that the events of Pythos will have some impact on the storyline (they unleashed something, after all), that's hardly even alluded to in the end.

 

I mean, seriously, who read Pythos and felt it wasn't a stand-alone novel set in the Heresy series?

 

I would much rather have seen Pythos in a different format, and its prequel ("Veritas Ferrum") expanded in size.  It's precisely the sort of story that's perfect for the new release schedule Black Library aims for.

 

Perhaps given a few more fleshed-out appearances, Durun Atticus would have felt like a more meaningful part of the Heresy: kind of like a another take at the Loken cycle, had Loken had stayed dead, but from a post Dropsite Massacres perspective.  Instead, the whole affair felt like an obligatory look at the Shattered Legions simply for the sake of having an obligatory look at the Shattered Legions.

[Chaeron]

 

I think the slowness is for the long rumoured rate of progression: lots of authors being very busy means they can't bring out things as quickly as they'd like.

 

It means, in short, lots of shorts and other formats to fill time in between. Let it all settle down in a year or two: and I think we'll see the resumption of breakneck pace.

 

Don't be deceived by the "slowly" part of my title; the topic is mostly about the "trickling" bit. That is, about Black Library taking key parts of the storyline and the background and showcasing them in a poor format.  I could care less if, e.g., a "fall of Caliban"-centered novel takes X amounts of months or years to come out; it's still better than getting a dozen e-shorts, short stories, or 18-minute audio dramas that are designed primarily to "pass the time in-between main releases" rather than to tell a cohesive story.

 

 

That's fair - but if they don't do that, some people will be somewhat frustrated that there aren't Heresy-based releases in any format. What does that mean? They either go to other books by Black Library, or go elsewhere. That's the only issue with not continuing a constant output (irrespective of what format it comes) - losing potential market share and having to win back an audience. Will most people return? I'd think so - but they need to make money in the interim. As an aside, I don't normally bother with the eShorts, shorts, trousers, and audios anyway, but will in time want to when I have a chance and capital. Better to get my Heresy dose that way with new content than just feel like I'm waiting for something at some random point down the line.

[Chaeron]

Pythos has a lot of positive things to recommend it.  The problem with it isn't just that it doesn't "progress"the story, or that the characters aren't Big Names of the Heresy.  The problem is that it's not even implied that we'll see them again.  And while I can guess that the events of Pythos will have some impact on the storyline (they unleashed something, after all), that's hardly even alluded to in the end.

 

I mean, seriously, who read Pythos and felt it wasn't a stand-alone novel set in the Heresy series?

 

I would much rather have seen Pythos in a different format, and its prequel ("Veritas Ferrum") expanded in size.  It's precisely the sort of story that's perfect for the new release schedule Black Library aims for.

 

Perhaps given a few more fleshed-out appearances, Durun Atticus would have felt like a more meaningful part of the Heresy: kind of like a another take at the Loken cycle, had Loken had stayed dead, but from a post Dropsite Massacres perspective.  Instead, the whole affair felt like an obligatory look at the Shattered Legions simply for the sake of having an obligatory look at the Shattered Legions.

 

In truth: I thought it was self-evident that there would be some potential impact, although as such, currently unknown. Given that the vast majority were:

 

 

basically eaten

 

 

- it does make it somewhat more complex.

 

I would have been as happy with the release in the way you've suggested - but didn't have most of the same criticisms as others of it being within the Heresy timeline/series. Sometimes it's nice to do something a bit different - and on the whole, I thought Annandale wrote a good book, and I enjoyed most of what he explored within the text. But, as you say, placing that within a wider context and framing that would perhaps be better long-term, but I've been advised that this publication was rushed by something like two years (literally, massively ahead of schedule) - so probably won't come into true focus until everything catches up...

[Tymell]

Pythos has a lot of positive things to recommend it. The problem with it isn't just that it doesn't "progress"the story, or that the characters aren't Big Names of the Heresy. The problem is that it's not even implied that we'll see them again. And while I can guess that the events of Pythos will have some impact on the storyline (they unleashed something, after all), that's hardly even alluded to in the end.

I mean, seriously, who read Pythos and felt it wasn't a stand-alone novel set in the Heresy series?

I would much rather have seen Pythos in a different format, and its prequel ("Veritas Ferrum") expanded in size. It's precisely the sort of story that's perfect for the new release schedule Black Library aims for.

Perhaps given a few more fleshed-out appearances, Durun Atticus would have felt like a more meaningful part of the Heresy: kind of like a another take at the Loken cycle, had Loken had stayed dead, but from a post Dropsite Massacres perspective. Instead, the whole affair felt like an obligatory look at the Shattered Legions simply for the sake of having an obligatory look at the Shattered Legions.

I can see the point made, but again I'd argue that it not having a huge impact in the grand story isn't a point against it. Not every novels needs to be about galaxy-changing events, nor be part of a big, continuous arc for it's characters. Part of the whole point of Damnation of Pythos, as I saw it, was that with what Horus has done to the galaxy what would normally be a big thing goes unnoticed, lost amid the turmoil everything's been thrown into.

For me, it was a good, enjoyable story, and that's all it needed to be. It's still connected to the Heresy, as it follows directly on from Isstvan V, looks at it's impact, and may even be setting up more to come that we just don't know about yet. I'm not fussed whether something has massive, far-reaching impact or characters that we're going to keep on seeing. I'd agree that anyone only interested in the big things or the main, core stories probably won't find what they want in it. But me, I like to see these sort of tangential tales, the wider impact of the Heresy, the stories of those ripples sent out by the big events and the people and forces set adrift by the chaos they unleash. The stories of treachery and heroism that are made all the more tragic because they get lost and forgotten, blotted out by the enormity of the fires Horus and his brothers set burning.

That's me, anyway

[Phoebus]

That's fair - but if they don't do that, some people will be somewhat frustrated that there aren't Heresy-based releases in any format.

I don't know if I'm not making my point clear or not.

I'm not advocating that Black Library not release the formats in question. I'm advocating that they don't use them to tell stories that are integral to any one legion, and that deserve the comprehensive look a novel would (should?) provide them.

In truth: I thought it was self-evident that there would be some potential impact, although as such, currently unknown.

That's kind of the point I was making, Chaeron.

... but I've been advised that this publication was rushed by something like two years (literally, massively ahead of schedule) - so probably won't come into true focus until everything catches up...

I appreciate the context, but that's not my concern as a consumer. All it tells me is that there are now two issues of the product not being presented in a manner that doesn't seem to make sense.

I can see the point made, but again I'd argue that it not having a huge impact in the grand story isn't a point against it.

At the risk of offering you a false choice, if you knew that the publishing schedule only allowed for two Heresy novels a year, would you give Pythos one of those slots?

My answer is no, but not because I didn't like Pythos. Rather, if business realities for Black Library demand that I only get two proper novels and a number of e-shorts, short stories, novellas, and audio dramas, I would rather that the smaller formats are the ones focused on the - meaning no offense to their authors - tangential stories that you refer to.

[Chaeron]

That's fair - but if they don't do that, some people will be somewhat frustrated that there aren't Heresy-based releases in any format.

I don't know if I'm not making my point clear or not.

I'm not advocating that Black Library not release the formats in question. I'm advocating that they don't use them to tell stories that are integral to any one legion, and that deserve the comprehensive look a novel would (should?) provide them.

Right, I get that now. Apologies - wasn't clear before. I think perhaps you are somewhat clouded as you like the Dark Angels a little bit - and so, in your mind, they're essential. To me? Far less so. Don't get me wrong: brilliant to have bigger chunks of quality addressing something, but when you look at other legions, particularly, this goes some way to fleshing them out further without devoting a whole novel that may not necessarily be appropriate at this moment in time (or scheduled).

In truth: I thought it was self-evident that there would be some potential impact, although as such, currently unknown.

That's kind of the point I was making, Chaeron.

I was simply making it explicit: I believe he did more than allude to, although - this is perhaps also aided by my contextual knowledge outside the text. Even viewing it without it - again, it would be rather random to throw something like that in without consequences.

... but I've been advised that this publication was rushed by something like two years (literally, massively ahead of schedule) - so probably won't come into true focus until everything catches up...

I appreciate the context, but that's not my concern as a consumer. All it tells me is that there are now two issues of the product not being presented in a manner that doesn't seem to make sense.

Equally, fair enough - but most of us don't have this issue! I don't deny the potential - it just doesn't bother me.

[Tymell]

At the risk of offering you a false choice, if you knew that the publishing schedule only allowed for two Heresy novels a year, would you give Pythos one of those slots?

That would depend entirely on what it was up against. There are about 9 or 10 novels in the series I'd put it ahead of, because I thought it was a better book. Besides, to my knowledge there is no set limit of 'slots'. Some years we've had 1 novel, some we've had 4, I'd imagine it depends more on what the authors are doing than any kind of over-arching release plan.

 

But of course, to each their own. I'm not insisting everyone has to agree with me on Pythos, I just don't like to see it dismissed (not to say you're doing so, just a general point) on arguments about it's relevance or plot-advancement as opposed to how good a novel it is.

 

EDIT: In the interest of curiousity (and perhaps steering my posts in here a little bit more back onto the topic of the Heresy's releases/progress, sorry!) I had a look at how many releases we've had within the series each year, of different types. Here's what I got (counting "The Watcher" due in two days time). Oh, and I'm going by the story's original release format, and counting the short stories within anthologies on their own:

 

2006: 3 novels

2007: 3 novels, 1 short, 2 audios

2008: 3 novels

2009: 1 novel, 7 shorts

2010: 3 novels, 2 audios

2011: 2 novels, 9 shorts, 1 audio, 2 novellas

2012: 4 novels, 6 shorts, 7 audios, 7 novellas

2013: 4 novels, 19 shorts, 9 audios, 4 novellas

2014: 2 novels, 19 shorts, 8 audios, 3 novellas, 1 graphic novel

 

I think it shows some interesting trends: we tend to get around 3 novels per year, and shorts/audios/novellas have all shot up in the last few years.

[Scribe]

Its not even so much the content, its the type of content and the subject matter.

 

Same kind of thread kicked up a bit over at Warseer.

 

To me, they keep focusing on the wider story, and thats fine, but to me the novels need to be progressing, or we are all going to be very much older by the time Terra comes around.

 

I dont ever want to read about Salamanders, or Raven Guard, or Iron Hands at this point. Their time is done, they are shattered, lets get moving please.

[Marshal Rohr]

Hasn't most of the big name writers moved on to new projects?

[Tymell]

Hasn't most of the big name writers moved on to new projects?

Not that I'm aware of. Dan Abnett has various other projects, and ADB has said he's not feeling like doing Heresy at the moment, but that's all I'm aware of. McNeill, Swallow, Annandale, Wraight, Kyme, Thorpe, Sanders, Smillie, Reynolds, Haley and French have all produced stuff for it this year, Farrer even had something out in the advent calendar. The only ones who haven't done anything for the series recently are Mike Lee, Mitchel Scanlon and Ben Counter, and sorry to say but I can't say I'm disappointed in those And the only authors who have written a novel for the series before but haven't had one out in the last two years are Thorpe and Swallow, and Thorpe's confirmed one in the works, while Swallow is still producing Garro stuff.

[Phoebus]

Right, I get that now. Apologies - wasn't clear before. I think perhaps you are somewhat clouded as you like the Dark Angels a little bit - and so, in your mind, they're essential. To me? Far less so. Don't get me wrong: brilliant to have bigger chunks of quality addressing something, but when you look at other legions, particularly, this goes some way to fleshing them out further without devoting a whole novel that may not necessarily be appropriate at this moment in time (or scheduled).

It's really not a case of a preference for the Dark Angels - hence me offering that this applies to lore that is central to any legion. The point is that the look that is being given by the shorts, audio dramas, etc., is not comprehensive. It's fine for "tangential" stories, but not nearly as good as a novel for telling a story arc. I only used the fall of Caliban as an example.

I was simply making it explicit: I believe he did more than allude to, although - this is perhaps also aided by my contextual knowledge outside the text. Even viewing it without it - again, it would be rather random to throw something like that in without consequences.

Well, yeah, if you've read Pandorax, there's kind of a huge warning as to what effect this novel will have on the series as a whole.

Handled like that, though, it's just a case of what we saw in Vengeful Spirit (Mortarion suddenly showing a preference for the sorcerous and supernatural against character, without any explanation as to why) but from the opposite angle: the reader is now expected to assume what is to follow this novel (as opposed to what preceded it, with Spirit).

Equally, fair enough - but most of us don't have this issue! I don't deny the potential - it just doesn't bother me.

No offense, but I think that's... really unfortunate. You're basically saying you don't care if defining parts of a legion's lore are handled in a disjointed manner, or if the scheduling release process is broken. Where the former is concerned, can you imagine Legion or The First Heretic getting the same treatment?

That would depend entirely on what it was up against. There are about 9 or 10 novels in the series I'd put it ahead of, because I thought it was a better book.

That goes without saying, but we're not talking about racking and stacking one novel against another. That is, it's not as if the authors write their novels, assemble, and decide which ones will get published in that format by virtue of being "the best". I'm talking about a process of prioritization.

I think it shows some interesting trends: we tend to get around 3 novels per year, and shorts/audios/novellas have all shot up in the last few years.

And it's the non-novel part of that equation that I'm primarily focused on. I really wish they would get a little more nailed down.

[Chaeron]

 

Equally, fair enough - but most of us don't have this issue! I don't deny the potential - it just doesn't bother me.

 

No offense, but I think that's... really unfortunate.  You're basically saying you don't care if defining parts of a legion's lore are handled in a disjointed manner, or if the scheduling release process is broken.  Where the former is concerned, can you imagine Legion or The First Heretic getting the same treatment?

 

That's the thing, they're generally not essential. If they were, then I'd absolutely agree.

 

No lore within this universe is defining, safe or ever present - it's one author's perspective that we recognise contributes to the whole, but can be readily ignored or taken in whatever way you prefer.

 

This isn't isolated - it's happening to most legions. I'd much rather they increased output covering a variety of media and exploring it in different ways than simply not having a release. In taking this stance, I get the best of all worlds. From a business view, it allows them to have many people contribute, explore multiple formats and add to the rich panoply of backgrounds they're fleshing out - without losing revenue from lack of releases, it tides them over until the next major book release.

 

See the multiple releases in many formats a positive, not a drawback. It's frustrating to collect, admittedly, but again, I don't feel it dilutes overwhelmingly the progressive nature of the series. Even, if as you say, it's less of a flood and more of a trickle from time to time.