Nehekhare Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Horus used that, but it was the Emperor who created the circumstances that gave Horus something to use, while the post I originally quoted sounded like you were saying it was all Horus from the beginning. If anything, it was all Erebus from the beginning. the Imperial Fists were not 'getting all the glory', in the late Crusade. the only glory they got was in the late crusade after they were recalled, because they sucked major rearguard compared to the iron IVth who got things done with the Ist and IIIrd already. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3909405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Extermination says you're wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3909408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 The Imperial Fists were recalled to Terra when the Iron Warriors started to be manipulated by Horus. Also, the Imperial Fists were not 'getting all the glory', in the late Crusade. The Sons of Horus had just taken apart Ullanor and the Word Bearers had become so famous that the rememberancer in ADBs TFH only lost his genital measuring contest of Legion assignment to a guy who got the Sons. That's really just the last nail in the coffin though, not the beginning of their rivalry, for the Iron Warriors and Primarch. As far as they were concerned, they felt that the Imperial Fists were getting all the glory that they should have gotten but were instead forced to the jobs nobody does wanted. Them being recalled was like a slap to the face. The Emperor had two Legions whose specialties made them most suitable for the task, and he only chose one. Now, whether the insult was real or perceived is up to interpretation. The Iron Warriors and Perturabo believed it, and that was what mattered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3909409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 The Imperial Fists were recalled to Terra when the Iron Warriors started to be manipulated by Horus. Also, the Imperial Fists were not 'getting all the glory', in the late Crusade. The Sons of Horus had just taken apart Ullanor and the Word Bearers had become so famous that the rememberancer in ADBs TFH only lost his genital measuring contest of Legion assignment to a guy who got the Sons. That's really just the last nail in the coffin though, not the beginning of their rivalry, for the Iron Warriors and Primarch. As far as they were concerned, they felt that the Imperial Fists were getting all the glory that they should have gotten but were instead forced to the jobs nobody does wanted. Them being recalled was like a slap to the face. The Emperor had two Legions whose specialties made them most suitable for the task, and he only chose one. Now, whether the insult was real or perceived is up to interpretation. The Iron Warriors and Perturabo believed it, and that was what mattered. Of all the Emperors failings, I really don't get why he didn't get both Dorn and Perturabo to fortify Terra. It might have built some bridges, and helped Perturabos bitterness and alienation. Or even just Perturabo... Dorn hardly needed the extra glory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3909424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Possibly but I suspect Perturabo and Dorn were simply too different but unlike other Primarch's whose differences forged bonds of Brotherhood (Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus for example) they were always going to grate against each other. If nothing else Perturabo always holding his council and being withdrawn would have set an open person like Dorn's temper on fire without too much effort Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3909449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Dorn was bottled up tighter than a pastors daughter at an EDM concert. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3909450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Yeah, I rather think the issue is more that both were very guarded and closed up in personality that prevented them from finding common ground, rather than one being more open than the other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3909461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Is it true that when Perturabo took over the Legion he made 1/10 of the soldiers die at the other nine's hands to make them loyal to his cause? The practice is obviously taken from the old Roman army punishment of decimation, If I get my facts straight. But yeah, I find it pretty cliché for Perturabo to do that. Remains me of Darth Vader or Blofeld more than a pragmatic and calculating superhuman general. Then Perturabo later goes with another villain cliché in killing one of his Warsmiths merely because he brought bad news. It's classic Bond villain stuff. I like Perturabo, but I have to cringe a bit when they write him with villain clichés. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3909468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Possibly but I suspect Perturabo and Dorn were simply too different but unlike other Primarch's whose differences forged bonds of Brotherhood (Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus for example) they were always going to grate against each other. If nothing else Perturabo always holding his council and being withdrawn would have set an open person like Dorn's temper on fire without too much effort Fair enough but why not just Perturabo then? I mean did the Emperor/the other legions just not think about the effects of throwing one legion into the meat grinder time and time again and then having them do crappy garrison work and never get any recognition or glory would have on said legion or its Primarch? Did they think he liked that kind of work? They were meant to be brothers, somewhere along the lines it should have come up in conversation with another Primarch. And the others should have just known/seen the affects it was having on the Iron Warriors. No wonder they were so bitter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3909478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 it happens in every work place i’ve been in- the unassuming hard worker who is possibly more talented or more dedicated than their peers does not get promoted partly because they’re indispensable where they currently are. yes, they’d likely excel in another position too but who would fill their shoes and fill them with the same degree of excellence (in that mundane position)? even if management are aware of their potential, why move them when the machine (seems) to be working just fine as is. in addition, these people barely ever ask for advancement and expect it as a result of hard work, which is not the way (western) workforces tend to operate. there are loads of perturabos out there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3909528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I don't think the Emperor understood Perturabo's need for praise. I mean he kills 1 in 10 of his own legion because they ain't the best already and he's rivalry with Dorn is because they both do similar things and he wants to be the best. It was only a matter of time before Perturabo snapped. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3909782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Possibly but I suspect Perturabo and Dorn were simply too different but unlike other Primarch's whose differences forged bonds of Brotherhood (Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus for example) they were always going to grate against each other. If nothing else Perturabo always holding his council and being withdrawn would have set an open person like Dorn's temper on fire without too much effort Fair enough but why not just Perturabo then? I mean did the Emperor/the other legions just not think about the effects of throwing one legion into the meat grinder time and time again and then having them do crappy garrison work and never get any recognition or glory would have on said legion or its Primarch? Did they think he liked that kind of work? They were meant to be brothers, somewhere along the lines it should have come up in conversation with another Primarch. And the others should have just known/seen the affects it was having on the Iron Warriors. No wonder they were so bitter. I agree completely. It's the kind of conversation that should have happened before Perturabo was allowed to stew for so long. But then you can see how some of the supposed strengths of the Primarchs were actually weaknesses - it's all well and good having demi gods whose strengths negate the weaknesses of others but what happens when they don't get along? It's been noted in a lot of places on a lot of occasions that the Primarchs could be full on spoilt brats at the best of times, and to a greater or lesser extent were all competing for the favour of their father, just like you'd see in a more normal family. At least some of them had enough self awareness to stop chasing the Emperor's approval for it's own sake and set out to make something for themselves that would have the added bonus of said approval (Gulliman would be the obvious example of this) I think the biggest factor in that not happening was Perturabo just wasn't on good enough terms with anyone - even Primarchs who trusted him and acknowledged his qualities didn't actually like him (it's possible he was friends with Magnus based on AE but since Magnus was dispatched out into the Great Crusade shortly after his arrival at Terra it's just conjecture) even someone like Gulliman who had (to his mind) few friends amongst his brothers had extremely influential ones (Horus, Sanguinius) Just goes to show that Perturabo is just as much of a tragedy as Magnus, he ended up doing some pretty awful things just as a reaction to circumstances conspiring against him, not through the hubris that laid low the Crimson King Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3909876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Then Perturabo later goes with another villain cliché in killing one of his Warsmiths merely because he brought bad news. It's classic Bond villain stuff. I like Perturabo, but I have to cringe a bit when they write him with villain clichés. Well, if it's any consolation, Gree, he didn't actually kill that guy. Permanent dreadnought duty though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3910259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Since AD-B wrote about it in 'The First Heretic', I've always wondered how Perturabo would react to knowledge of the Word Bearer's involvement with the razing of Olympia. I guess he's beyond caring in daemon prince form but still, just another betrayal and exploitation by someone he called his brother. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3910459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Operative Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 @Darknight, I don't remember any mention of the Word Bearer's being at all involved in anything to do with the Iron Warriors In "The First Heretic"... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3910470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 @Darknight, I don't remember any mention of the Word Bearer's being at all involved in anything to do with the Iron Warriors In "The First Heretic"... No nor do I. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3910475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 ‘All of it was orchestrated to the very finest degree. The IronWarriors’ wrath was a sight to behold. They have instigated genocide against their own people. What choice do they have now? -Xaphen, Word Bearers Chaplain Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3910686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Xaphen's words "I was there with them on Olympia" speak for themselves when taken in the context that members of the XVII Chaplaincy were dispatched among the other Legions to help nurture rebellion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301401-what-happened-to-olympia/page/2/#findComment-3910733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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