Road to "Gladiator: Escalation"

[Morticon]

Hey guys!

 

For those of you relatively new to the forum, I occasionally do the "Road to..." type threads when there's a big-ish tourney looming and throw up a list for consideration as well as post battle reports for all.

 

Here are the (quite unique) rules for Gladiator: Escalation.

 

 

* Gladiator is an escalation tournament. This means there will be 6 games, all using a core 1000point army. 

 

*The game break down is as follows:

2x 1000point, 2x 1500point & 2x 1850point games.

 

The rules on army and list design will be detailed in the rules-pack at a later stage.

 

* GLADIATOR will be "NO-HOLDS BARRED" - this means that any existing 40k rules will be allowed - FW, supplements, unbound - anything GW has released. (providing it is the most recent rules and for 40k). 

 

* GLADIATOR will be applying the following additional rules for all Super Heavy units (and opponents of Super Heavy units): 

 

"Through Attrition, Victory" 

and a choice of either: 

"Impending Doom" OR "Escalation Warlord Traits"

(as detailed in 40k: Escalation):

 

AND

 

"Objective Secured"

(as detailed in the 40k Rule Book)

 

* GLADIATOR will be taking the place of the 4th Regional's tournament and as a result will be a "Ranked" tournament - counting for national points.

 

*GLADIATOR will have no soft scores (beyond the "Yes Check" conduct system) - as it is a tournament about generalship - the antithesis tournament of the "SKIRMISH" tournament

 

 

 

MISSION SCHEDULE:

GAME 1: 

1000 pnts - EMPEROR'S WILL - 

VANGUARD STRIKE

GAME 2: 

1500 pnts - SCORCHED EARTH* - 

HAMMER & ANVIL

GAME 3: 

1850 pnts - CLEANSE AND CONTROL- 

DAWN OF WAR

GAME 4: 

1000 pnts - CLOAK AND SHADOWS -

HAMMER & ANVIL

GAME 5: 

1500 pnts - DOMINATION* -

DAWN OF WAR

GAME 6: 

1850 pnts - RELIC - 

VANGUARD STRIKE

 

The following rules will be in place for MAELSTROM of WAR missions:

 

1. Players must divide their cards into TWO or THREE piles:

• A. Objective Token cards, (usually 1:1-1:6, 2:1-2:6 and 3:1-3:6)
• B: "Other" cards. (4:1-4:6, 5:1-5:6, 6:1-6:6) and if applicable
• C: Race Specific cards, (1:1-1:6)

When players generate tactical objectives, they may choose from which pile to take.

 

2. If a player draws a card that is, under any current game circumstances, impossible to complete ONLY due to the target unit not being in the opponent's army list (eg: Kill a psyker, when your opponent has no psykers) or the opponent can never relinquish the condition (eg: fail a Leadership check in a fearless army) they must immediately discard that card and draw again.

• 2a. If the card drawn is only impossible to complete on account of the objective having already been completed, players may claim that point (eg: Destroy a building but all buildings have already been destroyed).

 

3. All random rolls (d3) on cards will count as 2points for a d3. (Any d6s will count as 3 points)

 

 

4. Strategic Warlord Trait #5 "Master of Fate" will read as follows:

"Whilst the warlord is alive, any Tactical Objective that originally had a random roll will generate an additional point on a 4+ when completed"

 

 

With this in mind, the core 1000 is SUPER important.  
Especially considering the fact there can be all sorts of evil around! 

 

Proposed list coming soon!

 

 

[Morticon]

 

The Maelstrom Mission: SCORCHED EARTH uses the following rules:

 

1. Generate 2 Tactical Objectives on the first turn. Thereafter, generate up to a maximum of 2 active Tactical Objectives each subsequent turn. 

 

2. If, at the start of your turn, you claim more objective markers than your opponent, you may generate 1 more Tactical Objective than usual. 

 

3. If either player draws a "numbered" objective (usually 1 through 3) and claims/scores that objective, that objective immediately "detonates" and is removed from play. No player may generate points from this objective anymore.

 

The Maelstrom Mission: DOMINATION uses the following rules:

 

1. Generate 2 Tactical Objectives on the first turn. Thereafter, generate up to a maximum of 2 active Tactical Objectives each subsequent turn. 

 

2. If, at the start of your turn, you claim more objective markers than your opponent, you may generate 1 more Tactical Objective than usual.

[knife&fork]

Interesting setup.  :)

[Morticon]

The list!

 

So, at 1000 points I'm looking for something mobile, killy and claimy.  I

need to be able to take on Nigel's evil bikerorks from hell as well as MouseFilter''s Wraith Knight list, Decoy's Dreadknights and Ultima's Imperial Knight stuff.

 

So, this is what i'm looking at:

 

1000 POINT CORE  (CAD- sadly not the BSF  -as i really need the Obj Sec for this many Maelstrom)

 

Sanguinary Priest - (War Lord) - JP, BP, Valour's Edge, Veritas, Auspex

 

8x Vanguard Vets - JP, 4x Shields, 2x MB, 1x Axe, 1x Maul (champ)

 

5x Tactical Squad - Heavy Flamer

1x Razorback - Las/plas

5x Tactical Squad - Heavy Flamer

1x Razorback - Las/plas

5x ASM - 2x Inferno Pistols, 2xMeltaguns
1x Pod
Sicaran - Legacy of Mars

+ 500 ADD ON

 

10x Tactical Squad - Inferno pistol, MG, HF
1x Pod

5x ASM - 2x Inferno Pistol, 2x Meltagun

1x Pod

1x Damocles Rhino

1x Vengeance Battery - Quad Icarus 

 

+ 350 ADD ON

 

6x Legion of the Damned - 1x Meltagun, 1x Multimelta

6x Legion of the Damned - 1x Meltagun, 1x Multimelta, 1x Combi Grav.

 

 

 

 

OPTIONS:

 

So, there are a few tweaks I could look at.  The most pressing is in the 500point add-on, where i have 5 points to play with.  I'm seriously thinking of a grav gun instead of a MG, and maybe even a grav pistol instead of Inferno Pistol. This is on account of the big MCs about.  

 

Then, I am also thinking of changing one of the LotD's MMs for a HF instead.  I really need all the heavy flamers I can get for Nigel's list and also for a few DE lists.

 

What do you guys think about those changes?

[knife&fork]

Hm, I see no real beater unit? Plenty of Melta though and I suppose the Sicaran will do some damage. 

 

As for the VVs I think a grav pistol would be better than extra PWs, particularly that maul. Causing concussive before the combat is preferable to having to get a hit through toughness and armour saves. 

 

I don't think heavy flamers are that great against orks, there are usually too many bodies for them to actually make a difference. To really bring the pain you'll need many templates at once, else you just do non-critical damage since they have the numbers to absorb a few casualties without making or breaking a unit. 

[Morticon]

K&F,

 

shotto fo input!

I usually play without a solid beatstick element.  (Last tourney list aside!) I prefer to take a more combined arms approach and let the synergies work the magic - means i have to play more carefully, and struggle a little more with uber death squads, but i enjoy the playstyle.

 

Regarding your thoughts on the VV - I feel 4x axe attacks at S6 would be a little better than the grav - just because once i'm locked in combat, i dont want to stay their forever (which i found the non-beaty unit was leading me to do!).  The hidden AP2, lets me tackle Dreadknights, terms, riptides and other 2+ nuisances. 

 

The maul is a bit of a meta choice.  Nigel's orks are the biker boys with Zhadsnark in the lead - Zhad makes his 5 powerklaw attacks at init 4 unfortunately- so i need to smack him down, and I need the extra strength to do it :( His squad jinks on a 3+, and if boosted on a 2+ - the luckystick boss usually tanks the incoming wounds.  That's also why the flamers are there.  The S7 on the charge also means vehicles have a bigger chance of going down, and the maul has a chance to instagib a lot of the T3 Eldar, DE and Sisters threat units as well as get some wounds (unsaved or not) on the Wraithknights etc. 

 

As for the flamers, as mentioned its more about the bikers than hordey orks hey! ><; And for the two or three DE lists running about with mad venom spam.  Those open topped hits are golden.

What do you think of the suggested melta ->  grav changes?


Any other comments about the missions or the tournament as a whole?

[Jolemai]

Interesting format for this tournament. Is there a way to play it against itself whereby you get an easier game at a particular point's level? Or are you just going to go for maximum score each game at take all the hard lists on? Are you seeded/is there a seeding system for the first game?

 

Tacticals with Grav is not the most optimal choice but you know your meta better than the rest of us. If you are really tailoring for Ork bikes/DE, do you really feel Grav will work better over Melta? Perhaps even Plasma may work here.

 

What was the optimal setup for LotD again? Wasn't it MM/GG/CGG?

 

Other than that, this list is very you.

[Morticon]

Interesting format for this tournament. Is there a way to play it against itself whereby you get an easier game at a particular point's level? Or are you just going to go for maximum score each game at take all the hard lists on? Are you seeded/is there a seeding system for the first game?

 

Tacticals with Grav is not the most optimal choice but you know your meta better than the rest of us. If you are really tailoring for Ork bikes/DE, do you really feel Grav will work better over Melta? Perhaps even Plasma may work here.

 

What was the optimal setup for LotD again? Wasn't it MM/GG/CGG?

 

Other than that, this list is very you.

Jol, 

 

thanks for the thoughts! You raise an interesting point, and i can do what i did in the last tourney and kinda play for the draw (sneakily) as a tournament tactic.  Not sure though.  But, its something to think about for sure.  

 

There is no seeding for the first game- completely random, though this is a ranked tourney- taking that thought into consideration, i may actually put all the hardest vs. the hardest according to rankings.

 

Otherwise, after game one, highest points go vs highest points and it all goes in to nationals ranking lists.

 

Re: GRAV

 

TOTALLY with you on the Tacs. I actually tried for a while to fit the grav on bikers- and even play tested with a small biker squad, but they were going down too quickly.   My concern is three fold - 1: Riptides (and Broadsides), 2: Wraith Knights, 3: Dread Knights.  While the melta will help greatly there, the 2 shots (upon landing) will do better against those big units.  Then, IF they survive, or even if they are charged, they get 3 shots subsequently.  

 

Re: LotD 

 

for some odd reason, LotD dont get access to gravguns :/  I dont get it.  Combi grav on the sarge? Yup! But no GG -otherwise i'd have that! 

[SamaNagol]

Might be a balance issue? Relentless Ignores Cover Grav too powerful?

[Jolemai]

Grave doesn't ignore cover...

[SamaNagol]

....everything the Legion Of The Damned fire does though. It's why 5 man Melta squads are so popular in a Wave Serpent led meta.

[Morticon]

Played some games this past week.

 

 

First up was 2x 1k games vs. Sisters/IKs. 

 

Was up against:

 

Celestine

 

5x Dominions - 4MG

Immolator - TLMM

 

5x sisters - MG, HF

Immolator - TLMM

5x sisters - MG, HF

Immolator - TLMM

 

Knight Achyron- 

 

 

Smashed him both times - thanks largely to the Sicaran and the melta drop squad.  He actually had to stay off board in game 2, and it allowed me to scream ahead in the mission.

 

I was so impressed with the Melta-cide squad, I added another one into my 1500 add on.  

 

Today I played 1850 vs. DE.  (Double CAD)

 

Archon - WWP, Field, Aggy

Homonc

 

1x 5 Trueborn - 2 Blasers, Drachon- haywire

1x Venom

 

2x 10 Warriors - Sybarite - haywire, blaster, splinter cannon.

2x Raiders - splinter racks, night shields

2x 5 Warriors - blaster, Sybarite - haywire

2x Venoms

 

1x Ravager - shields, Lances

 

5x Scourges - 4heatlances

3x Bikers - caltrops, heat lance

3x Bikers - caltrops, heat lance

3x Bikers - caltrops, heat lance

 

2x Batteries - Icarus

1x VSG - 3 shields

 

 

 

He was unlucky not getting first blood.  I kept the jumpers off (rolling #3 on strategic WL table ) and decided to outflank with them.  I was also likely to drop the 2 meltacides in turn one.  That meant that in turn 2, if everything came on id receive reinforcements of 31 marines!! 

 

In my turn one, the meltacides came in and targeted the VSG.  I figured Id need to take it down at the core, instead of wasting my time trying to wear down the shields each turn.

It worked, and i nuked it.  

Then, my army did silly amount of damage in return.  Won 6-1 in the end.

Really, really liking the legion support and the options available to me.  

 

[Morticon]

Thinking with the legion, current set up is:

 

6 LotD - HF, MG

6 LotD - MM, MG, Combi-grav

 

I'm thinking of changing both MGs to Plasguns (losing the grav).

 

Idea is for 2 more high(ish) strength shots that ignore cover.  After the melta-cide drops, most vehicle threats are negated somewhat. 

 

Thoughts? Its just tweaking, but, necessary. 

Likely to face a fair deal of mech,but also strong monsters.

[The Yncarne]

It is interesting to read how you prepare for tournaments. You know the dominant meta, and better, you know your army. 

 

How has your Sicaran fared to date? I'm guessing the in-your-face pods tend to remove a lot of pressure on it.

 

I don't have anything practical to add. To repeat, you know yourself and your key opponents.

[knife&fork]

Thinking with the legion, current set up is:

 

6 LotD - HF, MG

6 LotD - MM, MG, Combi-grav

 

I'm thinking of changing both MGs to Plasguns (losing the grav).

 

Idea is for 2 more high(ish) strength shots that ignore cover.  After the melta-cide drops, most vehicle threats are negated somewhat. 

 

Thoughts? Its just tweaking, but, necessary. 

 

Likely to face a fair deal of mech,but also strong monsters.

 

I would almost rather change one of the melta pods to plasma if that's the case. Isn't the double pen and AP1 super useful vs things like Eldar?  Not only serpents but also those pesky 2+ rerollable cover bikes that won't get instagibbed by S7. 

[Emperors Immortals]

My local group has 2 eldarbike lists, one has a few of those bikes.

 

Its the main reason I take so much melts, there just too dam hard to shift otherwise.

 

A plasmacide squad is interesting, its throwawaynature mitigates the high fatality rate my plasma gunners seem to face.

 

@morticon, why did you choose legacy of mars if I can ask? I just get so many different answers on what to take on a sicaran I usually just take two sicarans.

[Morticon]

It is interesting to read how you prepare for tournaments. You know the dominant meta, and better, you know your army. 

 

How has your Sicaran fared to date? I'm guessing the in-your-face pods tend to remove a lot of pressure on it.

 

I don't have anything practical to add. To repeat, you know yourself and your key opponents.

 

Army is so, so important to know.  What i've found in the 16 years of gaming is that people gravitate to a certain play style. And certain armies, or builds within certain armies far better suit certain player personalities.  

 

The benefit of having a small, but dedicated gaming community here is knowing what armies they have, and more importantly, knowing what they like/enjoy bringing. 

 

The Sicaran has been absolutely incredible.  I wont play it without the Mars legacy ever again though.  A Sicaran's base cost, for me, will always be 160.  That Tank Hunter ability turns it from solidly good, to devastating.  Any light armour is shredded.  It never does BRILLIANTLY, but it is always the work horse.  Its possibly my "secret unit". Cannot recommend this unit more for people that are allowed it.

 

And thanks for the comments!

[Morticon]

My local group has 2 eldarbike lists, one has a few of those bikes.

 

Its the main reason I take so much melts, there just too dam hard to shift otherwise.

 

A plasmacide squad is interesting, its throwawaynature mitigates the high fatality rate my plasma gunners seem to face.

 

@morticon, why did you choose legacy of mars if I can ask? I just get so many different answers on what to take on a sicaran I usually just take two sicarans.

 

Which Plasmacide, bud?  Im just thinking of swapping out the LotD mg for plasma. Im thinking that at 1850 and on, ill have 2 x melta drop squads, so i think vehicles will be taken care of nicely.  I'm thinking that there will be more bikers and things so need to be able to put a lot of wounds on rather than a few wounds (if that makes sense?).

 

Mars legacy gives tank hunter.  That means that on an average roll you kill a rhino (or even av12 vehicle).  vs. AV13 you're likely to get 1 or 2 HP off too. Its just sooo good. The reliability of it is phenomenal.  

[Morticon]

So, looks like mousefilter (aka Sidney) is going to be playing a wraith knight heavy list.  

 

This means i'll defs be going with the gravs where ever possible.  

 

I made a few tweaks.

 

 

1k 

 

Priest - Edge, BP, JP, Ausp, Veritas

7x Van Vet - 5x Shields, 2x PW, 2xMB

 

5x Tacticals - HF

Las/Plas Razor

5x Tacticals - HF

Las/Plas Razor

 

5x ASM - 2xMG, 2x Infernus

1x Pod

 

(i still have 15 points here.  I'm thinking about either another shield and another MB, or a grav pistol)

 

+500

Damocles

10x Tactical Marines - HF, Grav Gun, Grav Pistol

1x Pod

5x ASM - 2MG, 1IP, 1GP

1x Pod

1x Icarus Battery

 

+350

 

6x Legion of the Damned - MG, MM, Cmbi Grav

6x Legion of the Damned - MG, HF.

 

 

 

I lose a little more utility, but feel im more prepped vs. riptides, suits and knights

 

[Morticon]

Anyone think that the 15 points in the first one would be worthwhile for either 3x MBs or 1x Grav Pistol?  Thoughts?

[knife&fork]

Isn't the heavy flamer on the second LotD squad kind of a waste? 

[Morticon]

Isn't the heavy flamer on the second LotD squad kind of a waste? 

 

Yes. 

Its completely a meta choice. Its for Nigel and his orky biker death, and the DE open topped transports, though.

 

Any thoughts on MBs vs. Grav Pistol?

[Deschenus Maximus]

Legion? Why?

 

Icarus?

[knife&fork]

 

 

Any thoughts on MBs vs. Grav Pistol?

 

 

Def more grav. 

[Morticon]

Day one done. 

 

Yoh, some hardcore lists.  Faced two unbound lists (got a bye on account of losing first game to Mouseflter's 2Wraithknight, 2 Riptide 1000point list).  

 

Up against a fellblade at 1k tomorrow first game :/ it has ceramite too :( 
Not sure what i'm going to do.