Codex: Khorne, next week?

[Tenebris]

Where in my post above I was weeping? It was a reply to Trevak's negativity. 

 

Fact is that the new Khorne vibe be it Fantasy or 40k is interesting and it is proper that GW should ride it. On a side note there were also rumors of several datasheets in the WD next week. My speculation is that WD will cover the Bloodthirsters and their 40k rules while the "supplement" or "codex" will have the formations. 

 

I wonder if we will see Ka'Bandha...

[Dallas Drake]

Cool. I'm not sure how much CSMs will be covered in this, I have a feeling it will be more Daemons focused... But we'll have to wait and see I guess. Fingers crossed this is a solid release!

[Trevak Dal]

I don't expect to be competitive-against Space Marines (of most any stripe) I do alright-it's always a good fight.  But unless I'm gaming the rule mechanics with my Zerker/spawn/Juggerlord MSU/MCAD spam, Assault is an uphill grind even with plenty of terrain.

 

It's..."gamey" and doesn't feel right in the same way that always using the same/best guns in a FPS doesn't feel right.  A bit of a digression-I never liked Call of Duty games.  They didn't have...the 'fight' that Halo (and eventually Gears of War and Space Marine) offered, it didn't feel personally engaging or satisfying.

 

I'm tired of all the hope that's had for updates for chaos, when the core codex is where the problems are.  I can fight with it just fine-but I'm not taking marks on my Ctacs or really anythings else.

 

I hate just how much better the Nurgle Mark and Plague Marines are than Khorne/Beserkers.  I hate feeling excitement and hope about something that's probably going to have a lot of strings attached-like having to take Daemons and be a dissappointment like Destiny (Never Again.  Never forget-four months minimum after release before buying a game.)

[Forté]

Only time will tell on this rumour. Be good if 40k Chaos gets some support, even if it is for Khorne.

[Vesper]

I hate just how much better the Nurgle Mark and Plague Marines are than Khorne/Beserkers.  I hate feeling excitement and hope about something that's probably going to have a lot of strings attached-like having to take Daemons and be a dissappointment like Destiny (Never Again.  Never forget-four months minimum after release before buying a game.)

Killing Floor 2, man. Day one purchase.

[Zhukov]

I could not care less and neither should you, if we are competitive or no. If that is the only vibe you get from playing a 40k army then there are way more competitive options out there,

But for those who are by soul and heart a Chaos player then this book is good news.

What if I'm competitive and a CSM player by soul and heart? "Just get over it" is such an easy answer to everything, but hardly helpfull.

I came third in the Doubles tournament past Saturday, with the simple Khorne list you can find in the Army List. My buddy played a Renegade Guard with the FW rules. Our lists were thematic and fluffy... yet we still made it good. I simply pity the players who had to bring an Imperial Knight and a Centurion-star with Tigurius and Coteaz to enjoy the event...

How dare they playing in the way they want at a tournament. Pitiful people bringing a strong list indeed. They should be like you and your friend because that is the superior way of being.

Seriously though, don't be that guy. Respect that people are different, you as a moderator should know that.

I hate just how much better the Nurgle Mark and Plague Marines are than Khorne/Beserkers.

Actually, Plague Marines are pretty horrible as well since 7th edition Let's hope Berzerkers get a bit more viable! Making Land Raiders dedicated transports would already help, Objective Secured Land Raiders are okay'ish.

Personally, what I hope this codex will do: Extremely broken Bloodthirsters. I'm serious. If that means the codex is viable solely because of this, I'm all for it, it's better than nothing. Would give me a reason to buy 2 of them and play with a Khorne list which I've always wanted. I just refuse to shell out cash while ending up with no different result than playing a Khorne CSM + Khorne Daemon Allies list.

[Tenebris]

 

  I could not care less and neither should you, if we are competitive or no. If that is the only vibe you get from playing a 40k army then there are way more competitive options out there,

But for those who are by soul and heart a Chaos player then this book is good news.

 

 

What if I'm competitive and a CSM player by soul and heart? "Just get over it" is such an easy answer to everything, but hardly helpfull.

 

I came third in the Doubles tournament past Saturday, with the simple Khorne list you can find in the Army List. My buddy played a Renegade Guard with the FW rules. Our lists were thematic and fluffy... yet we still made it good. I simply pity the players who had to bring an Imperial Knight and a Centurion-star with Tigurius and Coteaz to enjoy the event...

How dare they playing in the way they want at a tournament. Pitiful people bringing a strong list indeed. They should be like you and your friend because that is the superior way of being. 

 

Seriously though, don't be that guy. Respect that people are different, you as a moderator should know that.

 

 

 

The thing is that we work with facts and the current fact is that we can either enjoy and have a positive attitude toward our book which at the moment is the only one we have, knowing that there are no planned revisions this year (quote rumors). A player should not just demand rules, and more rules and better rules, it is clear that GW is considering this aspect as a mere necessity other than a coordinated effort. They are in it for the models and not for the rules. We on the other hand should accept what we have and not dabble too much in ifs, whats and maybes but simply be stoic about it, namely get over with it. We can discuss how to make due with what we have but this is hardly the topic for it. 

 

And yes I do disagree with that kind of players which actually download a net list and proxy what they don't have models for, especially if the intention of the event was to bring "fluffy" armies. They did not get backrgound points, nor the painting points but still I have played them, lost to them and was not this the matter, not in the slightest but what irked me was the lack of "enthusiasm" for the hobby or any other field of it other than "play for the win"... mentality. I was sanguine about it, the other members of my club were not... All I can say is that there are more aspects to the hobby than just that single score on the leaderboard... 

 

As for the supplement itself, THE argument of this topic, my impression is that it will act as a "template" for hopefully future releases, much like the Iyanden and the Black Legion ones were. GW is learning, it is slow on the uptake, but it is learning and the Blood Angels and the releases that accompanied them gave me hope for my faction, since those rules, the campaign box and all that followed were very well done and "fluffy". 

 

Will we see more WD dataslates along with the supplement? I hope so, the Fleash Tearer ones were nice and interesting, who knows, maybe ours will be too. Will this work, will this allow us to topple the charts and smash the competition? No, not by a long shot. GW ain't playing that game, not yet,...

[Zhukov]

A player should not just demand rules, and more rules and better rules, it is clear that GW is considering this aspect as a mere necessity other than a coordinated effort. They are in it for the models and not for the rules. We on the other hand should accept what we have and not dabble too much in ifs, whats and maybes but simply be stoic about it, namely get over with it.

I disagree very strongly with this. Warhammer 40k is still a game and GW is still very capable of writing decent codices, which there are plenty examples off. They can't write an amazing Necrons codex (they did) and then just write a crap one after. When they provide us now with a new Khorne codex I fully and rightfully expect that it contains decent rules. "We're a model company" is refusing responsiblity, nothing more.

 

 

   And yes I do disagree with that kind of players which actually download a net list and proxy what they don't have models for, especially if the intention of the event was to bring "fluffy" armies. They did not get backrgound points, nor the painting points but still I have played them, lost to them and was not this the matter, not in the slightest but what irked me was the lack of "enthusiasm" for the hobby or any other field of it other than "play for the win"... mentality. I was sanguine about it, the other members of my club were not... All I can say is that there are more aspects to the hobby than just that single score on the leaderboard...

You didn't provide that information when you said what you said. Not that it changes much, what is/was the purpose of saying that? Do you think it helps in any way to make people respect others who enjoy the hobby differently more? Calling people pitiful without much context is constructive? I'm a bit dissapointed you even defend yourself here to be honest. Do you think calling people pitiful is a good way of getting them to expand their (arguably limited in this case) views?

For some people playing this game is the biggest aspect of this hobby. Should they maybe be playing another game? Yes, maybe, but that's their choice. Maybe they do like the whole 40k vibe, background and models a lot. I can tell you that I've played most armies through the years and that I hate converting and not particularly enjoy painting a lot either. You could say I've always owned ugly CSM armies. I do massively enjoy the hobby as a whole though and appreciate others who do convert and lovingly paint their armies.

Note: I'm not saying the guys were right by doing what they did, I don't know and don't care, it's not the thing which is important here.

 

   

 

As for the supplement itself,

We need to wait whether it's a supplement or codex. It's a huge difference. If the rumoured 120 pages are correct then it's a codex. The Necrons codex for example is exactly 120 pages as well. Judging a Khorne codex like it's just a supplement is not fair. Consumers have expectations and rightfully so. I don't like people whining about every decision GW makes, but neither is defending them no matter what and acting like they don't have obligations towards customers at all. They have. You can expect a product of a company to hold up to a certain quality, this includes rules when they includes rules. You could almost sue them for making a really bad codex, because it's a product which doesn't function. At the least they should give you your money back when asked to.

[Tenebris]

 

As for the supplement itself,

We need to wait whether it's a supplement or codex. It's a huge difference. If the rumoured 120 pages are correct then it's a codex. The Necrons codex for example is exactly 120 pages as well.

 

 

If it is a Codex then... the question is the "Decurion", a formation made with formations. The Harlequins did not have one but theirs is a different chart, as for "Daemonkin" I wonder what it will include. An educated guess is Daemons of Khorne with Mark of Khorne marine units, with maybe the formations to supplement those units which inherently like the option to be marked, or it will be a different thing altogether. One thing is what interests me is how will the integration Daemon + CSM work, if it will be considered in the first place. I wonder if we will see Daemon or Marine characters able to join other units, I wonder also if the Icon will be a medium to enact this, if it will be used...

 

Too many "if" for my liking but one thing is certain, whatever this book will be it is a template, an experiment, the first of its kind and hopefully not the last. 

[Zhukov]

 

Too many "if" for my liking but one thing is certain, whatever this book will be it is a template, an experiment, the first of its kind and hopefully not the last. 

 

I am curious too what it is my friend, we will see soon hopefully.

[Tenebris]

One thing is certain though, we will need oil for our chainaxes...

[Rain]

I am hoping against hope that this will not be another Decurian or Butcherhorde and won't require a huge number of pre-selected units to get any special rules. I'm all for new Khorne rules, and maybe even an excuse to add some demons to my Red Corsairs. Also, Berzerkers on Juggers. Please oh please, Berzerkers on Juggers. Even if they will probably be worse than Thunderwolves because Chaos don't get Storm Shields, and because we play the red shirts. In this case, quite literally.

[Cap'm Heckus]

I like Khorne. This makes me happy if its true.

 

... if false, I will boil a GW staffer and eat him with butter, salt, and pepper.

 

EDIT: see? I'm being positive...

[Lay]

What are the chances that we will see new Berserkers? That's the only thing I'd look forward to.

[BetterOffShred]

One thing is certain though, we will need oil for our chainaxes...

Oil is for the weak.. The gears turn for BLOOD!

 

-Brett

[Sception]

What are the chances that we will see new Berserkers? That's the only thing I'd look forward to.

Extremely low. There are 12 zerkers rumored in the new army box, that implies the old sprues. They wouldn't sell the old models in a box and release new models separately at the same time, gw generally doesn't do that. Also, lately new models come before book releases not after, so if new zerks were coming, then the book wouldn't be the thing rumored this week.

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

At best, it will be a supplement. At worst it will be a useless Dataslate no one will use.

[BetterOffShred]

I'm not trying to derail the thread, but It seems to me GW is using the "dataslate" as a parachute for coming out with crap books.  I have always really loved me some berserk fury of Khorne, tearing fools asunder and drinking their blood from a boot etc, so I really hope it's at least fun.  I'd like to see a couple formations featuring Khârn as everyone else has already lusted over, and I'd like to see some stompy Daemon engine goodness. I'd like to see some sort of rule for formations where they can charge after deepstriking or something. I guess we all just want to see the addition of some mechanic that lets our boys in red climb out of whatever they drove up in, and jam some boots and chainswords/axes through choice parts of whatever container the blood comes in.

 

Hopefully at this point you'd think GW would realize that shooting is OP this edition and try to add some tricks to level the playing field.

 

-Brett

[Rain]

So the word is that they are putting 15+ year old models into a new box set? That just seems odd. The current 'zerks look really out of place among any more modern models, what with their leather gloved gorilla hands and big ole toothy grins.

[Xenith]

So the word is that they are putting 15+ year old models into a new box set? That just seems odd. The current 'zerks look really out of place among any more modern models, what with their leather gloved gorilla hands and big ole toothy grins.

The Eldar falcon chassis and Necron warriors, among other things, would like a word with you

[Sception]

Falcon still looks fine, and the crons are practically new by comparison. The zerks predate the old metal necrons, and worse, they look it.

[Leif Bearclaw]

The zerks predate the old metal necrons, and worse, they look it.

I don't think that's accurate. If memory serves, the metal Necrons first came out around White Dwarf 217, whereas the Berserkers were WD 231. I'm afraid I don't know the real world months/years that correspond to those numbers, but that makes the Berserkers over a year younger than the old metal crons, for what that's worth .

To be honest, I don't have a particular problem with the Berserkers, the only really egregious bit is the 'skull faced' helmet, which looks pretty badly 90s.

[Sception]

Their wierd poses and proportions, the super oversized studs everywhere, and the ridiculous giant hand leather gloves worn over the armored gloves they're already wearing are all too much for me, even before the DV chosen came out and made all prior CSM models woefully inadequate by comparison.

 

But you're right, I totally had the dates backwards in my head on the old crons and zerks.  Thank you for the correction.

[incinerator950]

I'll wait for a pdf to see if it's worth buying.

 

Until then, I'll ignore it until one of my friends reminds me that we have a new book.

[Tenebris]

Well I am all fired up for new plastics, as long as it is new infantry models, models which we sorely need with an updated look. I do not deny it, it will be expensive, but the thing is that the more units I can update with new kits the more entries I can scratch from by "collection list". I refuse to buy any more old plastics, that is a rule which I observe now. Same reason why my Daemons collection is so limited, using only the "recent" kits. 

 

Will this supplement make the Berzerkers a proper close combat unit, well we should wait and see. I admit that I always fancied a full assault army but I usually had to compromise due to the local meta. If this will help me with a more assault oriented army lists, all the better.