thraxdown Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Only units from the daemonkin book count toward the blood points For being killed, yes. But from what I have read so far, all enemy units killed count as well. I hope you're right but I took this to mean every unit killed by units from a daemonkin detachment. The main rule of the codex is "Blood for the blood good": You get "blood points for every unit you destroy and for every unit you are destroyed. Carachters slained in challenges generate blood points as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Yep. The Daemonkin restriction only applies to friendly units that are killed. Otherwise there would litterally be no point to taking this army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Hmm from the first proper rumors on Naftka I think that to begin with I need to buy 1x Bloodletters, 1x Flesh Hounds of Khorne and 1x Skullcrushers, leaving the Bloodthirster in the plan for next month. I believe that the Crusade Case is a much better investment for 100 eur. So the first formations are known, thematic, solid, not overly powerful but neither weak. If we indeed have a Decurion way to build an army this could be very good. Luckily for me I have the majority of the models required but as it was with the new Necron, the new book pushes the demands for models a bit too much for a beginner. I understand sales but newer players are here at a big disadvantage. Said that the Blood Tithe looks very solid: 1 Adamantium will 2 Rage + Furious Charge 3 Feel no pain 4 +1 Attack 5 Summon 8 bloodletters of 5 Flesh hounds 6 Summon 3 Bloodcrushers or one Skull cannon 7 One Character becomes a Demon Prince (LD test, if failed becomes a Spawn instead) 8 One Character becomes a Bloodthirster (Same as above) Now the option 2 is a bit redundant but could be a MoK on budget for an allied unit for a turn, which is still good. The +1 Attack looks deceptively a short option but if you pop it when you are in the second turn of combat (where in the turn before you burned your charge bonuses) it can be a life saver, same as when it is used offensively. The Blood Point for a Character slain is the trick for the majority of our units have champions and we still have to duel but a kill now is much more rewarding. The Daemon summons are thematic and can be useful in a pinch though they are not that powerful in the long term of the game. Hence I say situational and good to place some bodies on the table. Between the main detachment and the rumored sword I think we will reliable be able to summon one unit of daemons per turn or burn two benefits. A FnP and +1 Attack can make any close combat unit good and can help a lot if it is timed right. All in all I like the Blood Tithe, we shall see though how it will coordinate with the other formations in the book and the individual unit entries. So far I am pleasantly surprised. The Daemonkin will not be the ultimate assault army but it seems to have the tools to assault properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Will the codex have the rules for the separate units or are you still required to have Codex: CSM and Codex: Daemons with you? ...blood for the blood god... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 the two most important questions: - do the blood tithe options apply army-wide or to a single unit only? - does the lack of daemonic instability mean CSM and CD units are allowed to mix/join? on top of that I'm a bit confused as to why there are no daemon weapons in this codex. The math on 5+ blood points per turn seems off to me. Other than the 1/turn bonus from a slaughtercult, you'll only get points from losses until melee starts in turn 2-3. You don't want those early points because destroyed units don't make it into melee. summoned daemons won't be able to assault, so do not contribute anything until turn 4-5, when the game is almost over already. all in all, I can't see how this is supposed to counterbalance malefic daemonology farms. Seems like a neat idea that doesn't work exept when you base your army on sub-par melee units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I'm guessing the Blood Tithe upgrades are for units, but then again... Rage and Furious charge is what the MoK does in the current CSM 'dex? Do they not have that? Do they have to earn it? Is that buff there for applying to daemon units, who have the DoK rule instead? I'd guess the latter, and that they're unit-only buffs and not army-wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jackal Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 the two most important questions: - do the blood tithe options apply army-wide or to a single unit only? - does the lack of daemonic instability mean CSM and CD units are allowed to mix/join? on top of that I'm a bit confused as to why there are no daemon weapons in this codex. The math on 5+ blood points per turn seems off to me. Other than the 1/turn bonus from a slaughtercult, you'll only get points from losses until melee starts in turn 2-3. You don't want those early points because destroyed units don't make it into melee. summoned daemons won't be able to assault, so do not contribute anything until turn 4-5, when the game is almost over already. all in all, I can't see how this is supposed to counterbalance malefic daemonology farms. Seems like a neat idea that doesn't work exept when you base your army on sub-par melee units. I'm going to guess it'll be detachment wide and is basically a way not spending points on an Icon or Locus and mildly benefits Daemon or Marine units either way. Another hint maybe in the Daemonkin Warband with a Herald on foot and no unit for him to go in...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtoof Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I'm guessing the Blood Tithe upgrades are for units, but then again... Rage and Furious charge is what the MoK does in the current CSM 'dex? Do they not have that? Do they have to earn it? Is that buff there for applying to daemon units, who have the DoK rule instead? I'd guess the latter, and that they're unit-only buffs and not army-wide. Mark of khorne gives rage, daemon of khorne gives furious charge iirc, so for most units this would only give one of the two rules. Still, could tip the balance in some situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 The blood tithe seems like a neat and fluffy rule, don't get me wrong I do like it. But it does not look like a rule that will make the army work, just like the boon table does not make generic CSMs work, and the warpstorm table doesn't make daemons work. And apart from that, I just don't see anything rumored so far really solves the issues that Khornate allied daemon/csm armies currently have? Apart from joining each others units, if that's actually a thing. And while I like the armor, the rest of the relics aren't wowing me. We'll see. I'm also curious whether this is a separate book or will require CSMs and Chaos Daemons to function (and thus will also incorporate options FW has already added to those books). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Having read White Dwarf, I'm gonna go with it being it's own self contained Codex. At no point do they mention any cross referencing with the other books. Dragonlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Malisteen a guy on warseer who has proved he has the book is saying daemons are now fearless so heralds can join marine units and vice versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 That's nice to hear. So the khornate CSM and daemon units will be able to work together at least. I'm still not seeing much in these rumors to say they'll be able to work together any more effectively than they worked apart a week ago, though. Again, the tithe is a cool rule, but it doesn't exactly make them good. The ICs still seem like they'll still have trouble dueling with dedicated melee characters and monsters of other factions, the FMCs still have to hover before assaulting and without the shroud that Nurgle daemons get they'll be super vulnerable when they do. The melee infantry still lacks quality delivery options, so it will still fall on the naturally fast units - hounds, spawn, bikes, maulers - to carry all the weight. And you still have lost of trouble with armor. I'm really happy to see these combined daemon/csm alignment books, but I kind of wish they had waited until after revisions addressing some of the problems in the main CSM and Daemon books, because right now this book seems positioned to cement those problems rather than repair them, from what I can tell. Hopefully I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Idk I'm thinking the army will be OK yeah it won't be no taudar level of power but it should be decently balanced against most of the 7th ed books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 We'll see. I hope so. But from the rumors, we're looking at no Khârn, no skarbrand, no kharnak, no cult terminators or HQ, no skullcrushers, no artificer armor, and no help actually getting your melee infantry into assault. Hopefully there's more there that hasn't been seen yet (maybe the terminators and HQs just have cult stats & rules by default?), but as the rumors currently stand, it's missing an awful lot of what people wanted out of aligned chaos codeces to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Mayhem Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302400-rumours-all-about-khorne-codex-khorne-daemonkin/page-30?do=findComment&comment=3983383 Link to the rumours page with the rules in (post 743). Seems ok, but as some have feared, its essentially all of the khornate units thrown into the codex with little else done to them. I'm looking fowards to it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Yeah, from that link I'm really having a hard time getting excited about this release. The blood tithe, being able to join each others units, and a handful of rather costly formations does not seem to me to be worth giving up the best options and units of the Daemon & CSM codeces, and a cult codex with no skullcrushers and no Berzerker terminators, chosen, or HQs (not even Khârn!) to me doesn't feel like it was worth producing in the first place. Unless these rumors prove to be inaccurate or wildly incomplete, I think I'll be passing on this one. I can only hope that when Codex: CSM does get updated, they don't feel obligated to keep the rules of units in sync with the cult books, or we'll be locked into our current book forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I'll be honest I'm slightly annoyed at losing access to my warpsmith my Havocs and my oblits unless I ally them in or go csm primary daemonkin allies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Does it mean so much to you to have marine ICs joining daemons & vice versa? If not, I'm not sure why you'd bother regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Does it mean so much to you to have marine ICs joining daemons & vice versa? If not, I'm not sure why you'd bother regardless. I'll probably go chaos marines primary with daemonkin as the allied detachment to get me some flesh hounds a HQ can join lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I am really tempted to write an opinion about this whole matter, but there is still a small chance that.... Who am I kidding. This is terrible. Not just is this release almost pointless, it seems to have sealed the deal for any near future Chaos releases as well. What do I mean? Simple: The unchanged rules of the involved units. This most likely means (one can never be 100% sure, but let's not fool ourselves further at this point) that there isn't going to be a new codex any time soon. This also means that any possible "codex" for one of the other gods in the near future is going to be build around the same non-functioning overpriced units from the present CSM/Daemon codex. Blegh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I am really tempted to write an opinion about this whole matter, but there is still a small chance that.... Who am I kidding. This is terrible. Not just is this release almost pointless, it seems to have sealed the deal for any near future Chaos releases as well. What do I mean? Simple: The unchanged rules of the involved units. This most likely means (one can never be 100% sure, but let's not fool ourselves further at this point) that there isn't going to be a new codex any time soon. This also means that any possible "codex" for one of the other gods in the near future is going to be build around the same non-functioning overpriced units from the present CSM/Daemon codex. Blegh. Yeah this is exactly what I was thinking. I thought they would update and fix CSM since it is so popular, but instead they went the opposite route: they knew it was diverse and popular, so they decided to milk it to hell by releasing a million supplements and ancillary codici. This would be fine if only they would update the main codex first and fix all the terrible options and overpriced units, but of course their marketing geniuses decided to rush out the farm-out books first so that they could shoehorn everything into the damn Fantasy final. Ugh ugh ugh. We won't get a new CSM book for another few years even though it is now the oldest and the one most badly needing an update. They won't release a bunch of books with 1 set of prices, and then drop the points costs and options on everything a few months later. Even if we got a new CSM book soon, it sounds like it will just be even less options with few points fixes thanks to GW's heavily-gutted design team. I can't see any way this isn't the final nail in the coffin for making CSM fun as a competitive, fairly-priced army. A Nurgle Daemonkin book will be fun and long overdue, but I will still never be able to take all my CSM stuff to a tournament or a serious game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 To be honest, since the new Khorne codex is entirely self-contained, it says nothing about when the next CSM and CD will be out, nor anything about how their rules will be. They could totally revamp the CSM book and this product would be wholly unaffected in contrast to the supplements. Now I'm as disappointed as everyone else that GW have simply done a cut-&-paste from the CSM and CD books, then added what is essentially a supplements amount of extra work rulewise, but imagine if they acually fixed some of the glaring problems of the CSM book? The non-mono-Khorne players would be outraged that it's only Khorne players that get proper rules. Now we are all at least in the same boat, though the Khorne players will of course be disappointed when CSM finally gets a new codex (provided it is not even worse than the current one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I was getting real excited for this release but tbh the daonkun book only seems decent for the daemonic side so yeah it will be crimson slaughter with daemonkin allies for me is sooner have the blade of relentless than that garbage khorne axe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 To be honest, since the new Khorne codex is entirely self-contained, it says nothing about when the next CSM and CD will be out, nor anything about how their rules will be. They could totally revamp the CSM book and this product would be wholly unaffected in contrast to the supplements. Correct. The release of this Codex in itself does make a near release of a new CSM codex unlikely though. Assuming a direct correlation here then one could even say the release of this codex is worse than no release at all lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 To be honest, since the new Khorne codex is entirely self-contained, it says nothing about when the next CSM and CD will be out, nor anything about how their rules will be. They could totally revamp the CSM book and this product would be wholly unaffected in contrast to the supplements. Correct. The release of this Codex in itself does make a near release of a new CSM codex unlikely though. Assuming a direct correlation here then one could even say the release of this codex is worse than no release at all lol. Dude I swear your reading my mind stop it LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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