Sception Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Far as I can tell, there hasn't been any mention of it. Berzerker terminators would be cool, and wouldn't really need a new unit, plus there's the FW conversion kit, so I suppose it's possible? I really wouldn't recommend getting your hopes up on that one, though. Or even on getting a generic berzerker lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 A Knight will need 5's to hit the BT. So on average, 1/3 hits, which will be negated on a 5++, which needs a 6 to actually kill the BT. So if the BT charges the Knight, there is only a 1/54 chance that the Knight will be instant-killed by the D. That's not how the math works. You calculated the average amount of damage he'll get, not the chance of the BT dying. Blood Tithe as it stands now is starting to sound interesting. If it means you have to use the special codex detachment for it, then I'm starting to be less enthousiastic, because Troops are the best slot to spam units with when they're Objective Secured. For example: You take 6x5 Berzerkers in Rhinos. That would be great with OS and the Blood Tithe rule. On the other hand, when you lose the OS rule for this it's getting a lot less good. People getting enthousiastic about spamming some cheap really bad units... please stop lol, that's terrible. No really, think about it, if you can't figure out how it is terrible, feel free to ask. I'm also by now pretty sure the units will be copy pasted from the CSM and Daemon codex, which is a terrible decision of GW. Why exactly would I want this codex if not for the Blood Tithe rule which may or may not be good? Surely GW knows we can already ally CSM and Daemons together? Let's hope there is some awesome stuff in it (there must be surely?) or else I question the point of this release except for literally trying to shove the BT model down our throats ("this detachment requires you to own 2 BT's, cool right?". Actually, I'm getting a little bit angry by the thought of being right on this. But that fits with Khorne no, being angry? Thought so. A burning question is also how the Blood Tithe rule works in relation to allied/summoned units. How the rule should be written (in my humble opinion): "Every enemy unit killed by this unit gives you 1 point and when this unit dies it also grants 1 point". This basicly means you cannot gain points by letting allied/summoned (unless summoned by this codex) die nor letting allies do the killing. Basicly, the rule should only function for units from this codex, to prevent potential stupidness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I told you the codex will burn people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targetlock Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I doubt there will be but a proper bezerker lord and terminators would be cool :) i wonder what the relics will be like, and whether there will be any detachments other than the main one that has been mentioned before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FENRISÚLFUR Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I'd be happy with something like an upgrade for terminators that would make them function like WE terminators, similar to the Black Legion supplement. Give them increased WS and Rage for +X points. I know its just hopes and dreams.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I'm also by now pretty sure the units will be copy pasted from the CSM and Daemon codex, which is a terrible decision of GW. Why exactly would I want this codex if not for the Blood Tithe rule which may or may not be good? Surely GW knows we can already ally CSM and Daemons together? It would be nice for all the relevant entries to be in the one book, if for nothing else than streamlined referencing, but also for those of us who don't already own the Daemons codex, or for Khorne daemon players who don't own the CSM codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I'm also by now pretty sure the units will be copy pasted from the CSM and Daemon codex, which is a terrible decision of GW. Why exactly would I want this codex if not for the Blood Tithe rule which may or may not be good? Surely GW knows we can already ally CSM and Daemons together? It would be nice for all the relevant entries to be in the one book, if for nothing else than streamlined referencing, but also for those of us who don't already own the Daemons codex, or for Khorne daemon players who don't own the CSM codex. You misunderstand me. Unit entries wil be there (codex is 120 pages so...), which is great (or else it wouldn't be a real codex but a supplement). I however wish they would have changed point values/upgrades etc. of all the involved units in the process. But seeing as how the basic 250 point Bloodthirster has stayed the same... Yeah no, not gonna happen lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Did the recent Harlies Codex have a full army list or was it just a copy/paste of Eldar rules with the new Harlie jetbike and Venom rules and a bunch of formations? Since Harlies are essentially a subsect of Eldar just like Khorne is a subsect of CSM/Daemons I'm guessing that this will follow along that template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 A Knight will need 5's to hit the BT. So on average, 1/3 hits, which will be negated on a 5++, which needs a 6 to actually kill the BT. So if the BT charges the Knight, there is only a 1/54 chance that the Knight will be instant-killed by the D. That's not how the math works. You calculated the average amount of damage he'll get, not the chance of the BT dying. Well I was just trying to calculate the chance of dying to 6 on D, not all chances of dying that include normal hits, and not all chances of dying include I1 and the apoc explosion. Honestly I am guessing the Knight has a good chance of killing the BT regardless, but if the normal I4 swings don't kill him, the BT is even more likely to kill the Knight. I messed up in what I was doing though - I included if the Knight is affected by Lasher Tendrils. It is 1/18 for 3 attacks to 6'd remove the BT from play. On to the Daemonkin LE codex: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/daemonkin-limitededition.jpg So I like Limited Edition books, and I am thinking about trying to start up a collection of Chaos texts, so naturally I am interested in the Khorne Daemonkin LE. However, it seems to me like you get very little for the Daemonkin book compared to the LE Ork book or even the recent Necron one. $100 extra for the tactical cards, some skulls, 6 objective markers, and a slip case? I guess the Necron one traded the cards and skulls for data cards and a poster, so it's about the same. Still thinking about buying it, but really wish it had something more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I use a few Khorne Daemons from time to time and not 100% sure what to fully expect but I have to admit. . . Any attention at this point is good attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I don't see how this can be run alone. It could be interesting as an addon to shoty demons, if[and only if] the kills/deaths can be performed by units outside of the formation. Also I hope the powers have something like the old undead VHDM for extra speed/melee turns, or something to do with the tokens between 1[super meh] and 8 [technicly is a "free" BT. but it is stock and BT aren't that good in the first place]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I have a bad feeling about detachments outside of this codex counting for the blood tithe. The fact that enemy kills count is a good sign, but there's no guarantee about allies. Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited about this release and I don't want to come across as overly negative, but it seems to me that GW always has to give us a downside or an incomplete boon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 my fears exactly. we can't expect any fundamental rules changes, so even with some additional boons and summons it will be hard for khorne units to perform. The question is: will blood tithe be effective enough to bring non-psychic daemons back on par with malefic daemonology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jackal Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ljehPtix7uw/VQttrHbM3QI/AAAAAAABb7c/MqcT3bVWrzo/s1600/11050173_1612205182355526_1249029266486450398_n.jpg The bottom left paragraph of this pages talks about summoned Bloodthirsters being less grounded to the material world then Bloodthirsters summoned by a Daemon Kin Warband. Sounds like Daemonic Instability'less' Daemons to me. Also mention of Warband wide FNP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Lets be honest if there are 8 units dead when one side is mostly melee[assuming you can't take siege traps charge Xx10 man cultists with them and bombard the siege traps with wyvenrs, which hit the cultists too] an extra BT is not going to be that awesome. Are people not feeling the narrative of units form formation X kills or gets killed gain a blood token? But maybe this time GW went with less forging, who knows, doubt it can be worse then the christmas khorn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 FYI, seems like the stuff went on pre-order sale early? http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Codex-Khorne-Daemonkin-Skulltaker-Ed-NAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Ordered mine and one of those fancy cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliGn Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 To me this raises an issue: if the only new kit is the Bloodthirster, then it is clear that there are no new units within the book, based on the "no model, no rules" policy. Then again, daemonic steeds are available to csm lords, despite there being no current PA lords on steeds. Since GW produce a Chaos Lord and a Variety of daemonic steeds then both parts are covered in terms of IP I suppose. Same goes for Bezerker Terminators, since Chaos Terminators exist, and could feasibly represent bezerker terminators then can they delay producing a specific kit? Then again GW also have precedent for releasing new kits for a codex only months after release, with the rules in the box, so never say never? It certainly seems unlikely that there will be anything other than rules to set this apart from what we already have available. not that I'm saying that the book isn't a step in the right direction, but if it fails to offer enough it could draw GW away from this path. Which is basically the beginnings of what was wishlisted since the previous chaos codex, if not the one before that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 A Knight will need 5's to hit the BT. So on average, 1/3 hits, which will be negated on a 5++, which needs a 6 to actually kill the BT. So if the BT charges the Knight, there is only a 1/54 chance that the Knight will be instant-killed by the D. That's not how the math works. You calculated the average amount of damage he'll get, not the chance of the BT dying. Blood Tithe as it stands now is starting to sound interesting. If it means you have to use the special codex detachment for it, then I'm starting to be less enthousiastic, because Troops are the best slot to spam units with when they're Objective Secured. For example: You take 6x5 Berzerkers in Rhinos. That would be great with OS and the Blood Tithe rule. On the other hand, when you lose the OS rule for this it's getting a lot less good. People getting enthousiastic about spamming some cheap really bad units... please stop lol, that's terrible. No really, think about it, if you can't figure out how it is terrible, feel free to ask. I'm also by now pretty sure the units will be copy pasted from the CSM and Daemon codex, which is a terrible decision of GW. Why exactly would I want this codex if not for the Blood Tithe rule which may or may not be good? Surely GW knows we can already ally CSM and Daemons together? Let's hope there is some awesome stuff in it (there must be surely?) or else I question the point of this release except for literally trying to shove the BT model down our throats ("this detachment requires you to own 2 BT's, cool right?". Actually, I'm getting a little bit angry by the thought of being right on this. But that fits with Khorne no, being angry? Thought so. A burning question is also how the Blood Tithe rule works in relation to allied/summoned units. How the rule should be written (in my humble opinion): "Every enemy unit killed by this unit gives you 1 point and when this unit dies it also grants 1 point". This basicly means you cannot gain points by letting allied/summoned (unless summoned by this codex) die nor letting allies do the killing. Basicly, the rule should only function for units from this codex, to prevent potential stupidness. I play in a very competitive environment and to be honest this whole thing has me very interested. I get a little bit of a ripping from friends and other top end players because of my refusal to play Daemons as my primary, so the running joke is how I hamstring myself to give other people a chance =x With that said, we can indeed take CSM or Daemons and then ally with the other but this allows you to take both (the Khorne stuff at least) and then ally with CSM or Daemons on top of that (assuming they are all buddy buddy with CSM and Daemon Codexes). Not knowing what all is exactly in the Codex is what will define how much it is used by people in a competitive environment (if at all), the free Thirster is all well and good but there is still the issue of him being summoned and in fly mode. Meaning next turn he will have to land, and the turn after be able to assault. Not sure what other options are there to do with the list but that particular one is a bit meh and is the main reason Thirsters are not used right now. Either way I am interested to see what is actually allowed and in the book, it also means we probably will not see a CSM Codex for a few more years but on the upside it does mean there should be more of these for each God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Either way I am interested to see what is actually allowed and in the book, it also means we probably will not see a CSM Codex for a few more years but on the upside it does mean there should be more of these for each God. That assumes a level of competence from the company that frankly I don't believe exists. After all, FW is generally considered the cutting edge of Citadel competence, Vraks gave Khorne and Nurgle some spotlight and resin shiny, and yet here we are years later, and nothing for Tzeentch and Slaanesh. I can all too easily see this Khorne book being a one off, once again leaving the other gods out in the cold . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 So, the leaks have started flowing. Faeit has a good compilation of today's newest leaks: http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2015/03/codex-khorne-daemonkin-no-Khârn-and-more.html Something that has jumped out at me straight away is how deceptively good that Blood Host "formation of formations" is. Benefits: Reroll Warlord trait and generates 1 Blood point every turn. When spending blood points you can for free get another bonus with less value than the first one.So, you get one free Blood Tithe point per turn, and when you cash them in you get to double up on the effects, as long as the second bonus is worth fewer points than the first. Combine that with this sword: -One Sword that gives you a blood point for every wound...and you have a potentially nasty combination. Put it on something fast (I'm thinking a biker lord for the guaranteed second turn charge) and you will rack up the tithe points pretty quickly. I'll be very interested to see how it all actually turns out next week. It's still looking a little light on the AA so some allied renegades might be worth taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FENRISÚLFUR Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 The rumor about no Khârn is really upsetting... Who better to claim Skulls for the skull throne than The Betrayer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 So, the leaks have started flowing. Faeit has a good compilation of today's newest leaks: http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2015/03/codex-khorne-daemonkin-no-Khârn-and-more.html Something that has jumped out at me straight away is how deceptively good that Blood Host "formation of formations" is. Benefits: Reroll Warlord trait and generates 1 Blood point every turn. When spending blood points you can for free get another bonus with less value than the first one.So, you get one free Blood Tithe point per turn, and when you cash them in you get to double up on the effects, as long as the second bonus is worth fewer points than the first. Combine that with this sword: -One Sword that gives you a blood point for every wound...and you have a potentially nasty combination. Put it on something fast (I'm thinking a biker lord for the guaranteed second turn charge) and you will rack up the tithe points pretty quickly. I'll be very interested to see how it all actually turns out next week. It's still looking a little light on the AA so some allied renegades might be worth taking. I am thinking that simply taking a Khorne Lord on juggernaut or bike + spawn will be quite strong. R&H rake up kills with shooting, then Khorne Lord gets into the backline. Between his sword and your shooting, you might be able to summon a unit every turn. Obviously this would be stronger with the detachment, but 2 berserkers + possessed is a sad tax to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thraxdown Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Only units from the daemonkin book count toward the blood points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Only units from the daemonkin book count toward the blood points For being killed, yes. But from what I have read so far, all enemy units killed count as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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