Codex: Khorne, next week?

[Slayer le Boucher]

The problem i have is that this book literally push you to play MSU ..;and i don't like that, i like my Zerkers and marines to be 8 or 10, i like my Bikes to be 5.

 

and like i allready said in another thread, it would have been a great help if the 1 Blood Tirth was something like "units can for this turn move+run+assault" and have adamentium will incorporated in the Mark.

[Khornestar]

Here's a rush list I'm VERY excited to try:

 

1850 2x Khorne Daemonkin CAD

Detachment 1:

HQ:

Khorne Lord 1: Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut, Sigil of Corruption, Axe of Khorne
Khorne Lord 2: Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut, Sigil of Corruption, Axe of Khorne

TROOPS:

Cultists x10: Mark of Khorne
Cultists x10: Mark of Khorne

FAST ATTACK:

Flesh Hounds x5: Joined by Khorne Lord 1
Flesh Hounds x5: Joined by Khorne Lord 2
Spawn x5: Mark of Khorne

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Maulerfiend: Magma Cutters

Detachment 2:

HQ:

Khorne Lord 3: Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut, Sigil of Corruption, Power Fist, Lightning Claw
Khorne Lord 4: Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut, Sigil of Corruption, Power Fist, Lightning Claw

TROOPS:

Cultists x10: Mark of Khorne
Cultists x10: Mark of Khorne

FAST ATTACK:

Flesh Hounds x5: Joined by Khorne Lord 3
Flesh Hounds x5: Joined by Khorne Lord 4
Spawn x5: Mark of Khorne

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Maulerfiend: Magma Cutters

[Plaguecaster]

I am curious on what stuff from forgeworld you can still take with Khorne Daemonkin could be interesting as certain options could open the possibilities further

Nice list venomlust looks interesting

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

Well, for the first time since 3.5, I think this may actually be a step in the right direction. The Blood Tithe rule is fluffy and fun and they finally got rid of the idiotic separation between Daemons and CSM. Don't get me wrong, their is still MUCH improvement that needs to be done before I am satisfied with CSM, but it's a step in the right direction.

[Sception]

I am curious on what stuff from forgeworld you can still take with Khorne Daemonkin could be interesting as certain options could open the possibilities further

Nice list venomlust looks interesting

It's not a supplement, so it can only access fw stuff via allies, at least until fw puts out errata.

 

As for the list, it looks decent, but the total lack of marines just makes me sad.

[Lagrath]

My thoughts:

 

Take 1 Daemonkhin CAD and 1 CSM CAD; put 2 Juggerlords into a 15- or 20-strong unit of Khorne Hounds. Take an Allied detachment with Grimoire in whatever form you want. Take a CSM land raider with the IA:13 Khorne upgrade and bubblewrap the hounds around it. Now you have 2++ Khorne hounds that scout "12 then move "12 with all the lords attached. You have 2 Lords that can split off turn 2 and assault anyone in the opponent's deployment zone. Put Khârn in the land raider.

 

The army is full of tough-as-nails vehicles plus a 2++ deathstar. One of the lords will have the Blood Tithe sword. Hopefully in turns 2 and 3 you will get a ton of blood points and can start summoning lots of daemons or turn some cultist characters into Bloodthirsters.

 

So, for ~1850:

Daemonkhin CAD:

1x Chaos Lord with 4++, weapons, juggernaught

10x cultists with mark of Khorne

10x cultists with mark of Khorne

15x Flesh Hounds

1x Maulerfiend, lasher tendrils

1x Maulerfiend, lasher tendrils

1x Maulerfiend, lasher tendrils

 

Chaos Space Marines CAD:

1x Chaos Lord with 4++, weapons, juggernaught

1x Khârn

3x Terminators, combi-meltas

10x cultists

1x land raider, legacy of ruin for Khorne ++1

 

Chaos Daemons Allied:

1x Herald of Khorne, exalted gift

10x bloodletters

[Kol Saresk]

10 Cultists won't be very survivable.

[Lagrath]

10 Cultists won't be very survivable.

 

They don't need to be; you get blood tithe points if the ones from Daemonkhin die. And the other 2 squads hide and cower in your deployment with Objective Secured.

 

And any shooting going into cultists is not going into Flesh Hounds or Bloodletters.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Well, for the first time since 3.5, I think this may actually be a step in the right direction. The Blood Tithe rule is fluffy and fun and they finally got rid of the idiotic separation between Daemons and CSM. Don't get me wrong, their is still MUCH improvement that needs to be done before I am satisfied with CSM, but it's a step in the right direction.

 

I feel like it's baby steps hopefully in the not so far future, games workshop will gives fun rules like this to chaos instead of the boon table.

 

It's funny GW gives us the most (though imperium gets more) love arguably when it comes to supplements and formations. The problem is that most of them unlike tyranids and space marines are that they aren't all that great.

[Paradigm]

While the blood tithe mechanic is a good one, you shouldn't msu with it in mind. Build units the same way you usually would. There is nothing on the list that is worth the points to make it worthwhile throw units away, or to msu to help the tithe along. What will a ten man cultist squad really do for you? The tithe levels aren't worth 50pts per level. As a cheap objective camper, they are ok, but you'd be better off taking allied daemons, if that is your purpose.

[Kol Saresk]

While the blood tithe mechanic is a good one, you shouldn't msu with it in mind. Build units the same way you usually would. There is nothing on the list that is worth the points to make it worthwhile throw units away, or to msu to help the tithe along. What will a ten man cultist squad really do for you? The tithe levels aren't worth 50pts per level. As a cheap objective camper, they are ok, but you'd be better off taking allied daemons, if that is your purpose.

That and they would serve even less purpose in the CSM allied detachment since the Blood Tithe only collects points for enemy units and friendly units in the Daemonkin detachment. It gains nothing from allies except what the allies can bring to the table.

 

I don't know, too many people seem too focused on destroying their own armies just to get a handful of units to replace them.

 

The focus should instead be to cause as much damage as possible and then use the BT to either increase survivability or replenish losses. Not act as a way to get dirt cheap units on the field only to replace them with more expensive cannon fodder because "yippee, they died".

[Lagrath]

You shouldn't make the mistake of missing the forest for the trees; unit comparisons aren't made in a void. If taking certain,cheaper units as opposed to others lets you play with the force org chart in a way that lets you put together game-winning combinations at under a certain point limit, that is more important than just thinking, "oh, I guess the daemon troops are more useful even though they are almost double the points."

 

Plus, honestly, even if you are mainly taking them as a tax to unlock something much more powerful, you should never underestimate the value of cheap, expendable Objected Secured units (especially in lists that have a significant quantity of durable, higher-priority targets).

Edit: though I thought MoK cultists were only 10, not 20, points, more. Ugh. Yet another reason a new codex was needed. Cultists need to drop 2 points per model ASAP. I guess there is no way to avoid taking Bloodletters instead at that point simply due to being forced to take MoK.

[thraxdown]

 

While the blood tithe mechanic is a good one, you shouldn't msu with it in mind. Build units the same way you usually would. There is nothing on the list that is worth the points to make it worthwhile throw units away, or to msu to help the tithe along. What will a ten man cultist squad really do for you? The tithe levels aren't worth 50pts per level. As a cheap objective camper, they are ok, but you'd be better off taking allied daemons, if that is your purpose.

That and they would serve even less purpose in the CSM allied detachment since the Blood Tithe only collects points for enemy units and friendly units in the Daemonkin detachment. It gains nothing from allies except what the allies can bring to the table.

 

I don't know, too many people seem too focused on destroying their own armies just to get a handful of units to replace them.

 

The focus should instead be to cause as much damage as possible and then use the BT to either increase survivability or replenish losses. Not act as a way to get dirt cheap units on the field only to replace them with more expensive cannon fodder because "yippee, they died".

I agree. One of the thing I noticed when I played a tzeentch daemon summoning list is in spent too much time summoning units and not enough time destroying the enemy. It would get to the end of the game and my opponent would have near their entire army left. So even when summoning was successful they had plenty of firepower to deal with anything that appeared on the table. It's probably going to be better to bring units that hit hard enough to destroy units (and win challenges) so when that bloodthirster does arrive the opponent lost their ability to deal with it in a previous turn

[Sheesh Mode]

It really is a problem for chaos when one of the better ways to run the army is relying heavily on IA13 artillery and vehicles, with only two units from the original codex: noise marines and a cheap chaos lord. (I do not even buy him an invulnerable save as it is a waste. If people are going to try and kill him a 5++/4++ is negligible.) 

 

It appears to me that the best way to run this formation is threat overload: i.e. lots of fast units rushing across the field turn 1 while more assault units deepstrike into play on turn 2. While it is cool, my own noise marine army would kill half or more of it before it reached my lines, then sweep up the rest with ap3 flamers on the second turn and laugh as the deepstrikers try to glance me out of my rhinos on the 3rd only to be torched again. My only close combat unit is a chaos contemptor dreadnought that stays alive because he it takes far more effort to kill him than it is worth, and while he wrecks face across the battlefield when left unopposed there are much better assault units out there who do not enjoy the same play time simply because they disappear in a few turns from mass firepower. 

 

It is simply very difficult to play assault now, and chaos suffers for it. 

 

But I still fight! I still kill my foes and split their heads, and eat their brains. Drink their blood! Suck the marrow from their bones! I still serve my master, pay him his due. Break the backs of the weak, Kill the Corpse-Slaves of the Emperor. 

 

But only in fluffy games where narrative thrives. 

[Trevak Dal]

I'm looking forward to trying out these rules.  It looks very promising...and might be worthy of "Bring your whole Crew" by DMX.

[Nehekhare]

inability to make Nids work since 4th edition

 

nids suck

 

have you checked GT results lately? ;D

 

I blame the years of bad rules for CSM players suffering from absolute disconnection with competitive play (i.e. aimed at actually winning in addition to forging a narrative, not using the latter as an excuse for being unable to do the former)...

 

 

 

the Blood Tithe only collects points for enemy units and friendly units in the Daemonkin detachment.

 

Khorne does not care whence the blood flows, only that it adheres to the limitations of a daemonkin detachment within battle-forged army construction rules.

[the jeske]

Khorne does not care whence the blood flows, only that it adheres to the limitations of a daemonkin detachment within battle-forged army construction rules.

 

 

:) But truth be told nids are as playable as chaos was in helldrake days. Nerf FMC or tyrants and nids aren't much[not a problem for me, but there could be people who want to play something else then 4-5flyers reaper swarms and a venom for cover].

 

As far as the point rules goes I find it sad that they don't give much. The summoned units are meh. Letters and crushers realy die a lot, and if you sit them on objectives they die realy fast[and melee or not 7th is all about msu burning through objectives as fast as possible].

now the fun part is that as part of the last  two weeks codex testing we "home brewed" other cult factions and managed to make 1ksons+tzeench demons viable. yes MoT marines viable for first time in 30 years.

 

I had fun with this.

 

Kight

2xlords on bikes

2x5csm with melta/combi melta in a rhino[flamer]

1x5possessed in a rhino[flamer]

1x5bikes

+oblitgatory 3 artilery detachment from AI13

 

Also played around a bit with no wyverns[wasn't as good] but maulers.

[Dallas Drake]

Here's a rush list I'm VERY excited to try:

 

1850 2x Khorne Daemonkin CAD

 

Detachment 1:

 

HQ:

 

Khorne Lord 1: Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut, Sigil of Corruption, Axe of Khorne

Khorne Lord 2: Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut, Sigil of Corruption, Axe of Khorne

 

TROOPS:

 

Cultists x10: Mark of Khorne

Cultists x10: Mark of Khorne

 

FAST ATTACK:

 

Flesh Hounds x5: Joined by Khorne Lord 1

Flesh Hounds x5: Joined by Khorne Lord 2

Spawn x5: Mark of Khorne

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

 

Maulerfiend: Magma Cutters

 

Detachment 2:

 

HQ:

 

Khorne Lord 3: Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut, Sigil of Corruption, Power Fist, Lightning Claw

Khorne Lord 4: Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut, Sigil of Corruption, Power Fist, Lightning Claw

 

TROOPS:

 

Cultists x10: Mark of Khorne

Cultists x10: Mark of Khorne

 

FAST ATTACK:

 

Flesh Hounds x5: Joined by Khorne Lord 3

Flesh Hounds x5: Joined by Khorne Lord 4

Spawn x5: Mark of Khorne

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

 

Maulerfiend: Magma Cutters

 

I'm thinking about something really similar. Hounds make a great delivery for a JuggerLord. Although I'd  be tempted to throw a few JuggerHeralds in there for fun.

 

Honestly, I've read a whole range of views on this upcoming release and tbh I'm happy with it. I understand every single criticism and think there are some excellent points made by many of the vets on here. But at the end of the day we've got to try to be positive and work with what we get, this is definitely a step in the right direction and frankly I'd hate to actually get something overpowered (read competitive) because as soon as that happens people moan and belittle you for playing/collecting it (even if it might be for decades). This release isn't perfect, many units are in need of a rules change or simple points reduction (Cultists); it's certainly not what all players want. But at least it's another option for us to play and paint our armies up? I'm, personally, really glad to have it as I enjoy the overlap of CSMs and Daemons. I know I'm biased in the sense that fluff and narrative have always been more important than outright competiveness for me but just being able to put CSM Lords in units of Daemons and vice versa is a big enough incentive for me to crack open my Khorne Daemons and Berzerkers and have a blast with this. I will probably lose, but hey I'm pretty used to that now, so long as I take as many of them down with me in the process!

 

EDIT: I can't spell.

[the jeske]

 

because as soon as that happens people moan and belittle you for playing/collecting it

In the last 11 years of playing chaos and nids, I found out that [and this was after playing EC whole 5th ed and nids in 6th at all] it is better to get a an OP codex with a ton of options and have fun with it for 2-3 years, then get suck dex and have little to no fun. The high horse of being better then others, because I play something different/harder to play/etc died for me at the end of 5th.

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

See I like playing chaos but tnh this so called codex is the last nail I'm the coffin with me I'm thinking of just going mono tzeench and being the cool kid lok

[King Jackal]

See I like playing chaos but tnh this so called codex is the last nail I'm the coffin with me I'm thinking of just going mono tzeench and being the cool kid lok

Lucky Tzeentch is still a part of Chaos

[Tenebris]

Amm why this all theatrics? I don't think that they have done a bad thing with the Daemonkin, in fact we can be having a fun codex to play, by fun I mean thematic, interesting and wacky which can surprise an opponent as it can us, its players. The Blood Tithe rule as explained in the WD is not that bad on paper and I am really curious about all this new Daemonkin warbands, the Wrath, the Skulltakers etc. hell we even have new paint schemes for the Khorne guys, Daemons included. 

 

Still I guess the "disappointment" comes from the "not uber/op sytle of the book" a book which we still know just the basics and have yet to have it in hand, so I suggest to reserve the "doom&gloom" for the next weekend, when the frater will actually have the book in hand and we will know all the options within. 

 

I must say that yesterday's WD really piqued my interest in the Daemonkin, and I like this "reinvention" of the crusading hosts of Khorne. Initially the fluff looks like we are speaking of a "twisted" versions of crusaders, who fight, kill and die just to see the will of Khorne done, his legions summoned and the galaxy drowned in blood. This single-minded approach is very curious and very cult-like which is indeed a boon for the faction, we now will know how the "actual" templars, zealots and cultists of Khorne look and act.

 

In my opinion the codex is written upon the skin of the "Sanctified" warband of the Word Bearers from Vraks and could easily be a very intriguing aspect to begin to explore for our faction. Until now we knew of Berzerkers, the World Eaters, a generic depiction of Khornate warbands and the basics of the Khorne mythos, as with the release of the Daemonkin our faction would actually learn the bone and sinew of Khorne's worship.

 

I think that the Daemonkin is a good thing for Chaos in general and a great way to kick in gear the tournament season of 2015. It does not seem a powerful army on its own but I bet it will be worth the points in laughter, randomness and sheer awesomeness of playing Khorne as it should be played, loud, aggressive and completely nuts as we would actually have something for each death on the board, ours or that of the adversary's units.  

 

So why you shed tears of blood my brethren?

[Dallas Drake]

Amm why this all theatrics? I don't think that they have done a bad thing with the Daemonkin, in fact we can be having a fun codex to play, by fun I mean thematic, interesting and wacky which can surprise an opponent as it can us, its players. The Blood Tithe rule as explained in the WD is not that bad on paper and I am really curious about all this new Daemonkin warbands, the Wrath, the Skulltakers etc. hell we even have new paint schemes for the Khorne guys, Daemons included. 

 

Still I guess the "disappointment" comes from the "not uber/op sytle of the book" a book which we still know just the basics and have yet to have it in hand, so I suggest to reserve the "doom&gloom" for the next weekend, when the frater will actually have the book in hand and we will know all the options within. 

 

I must say that yesterday's WD really piqued my interest in the Daemonkin, and I like this "reinvention" of the crusading hosts of Khorne. Initially the fluff looks like we are speaking of a "twisted" versions of crusaders, who fight, kill and die just to see the will of Khorne done, his legions summoned and the galaxy drowned in blood. This single-minded approach is very curious and very cult-like which is indeed a boon for the faction, we now will know how the "actual" templars, zealots and cultists of Khorne look and act.

 

In my opinion the codex is written upon the skin of the "Sanctified" warband of the Word Bearers from Vraks and could easily be a very intriguing aspect to begin to explore for our faction. Until now we knew of Berzerkers, the World Eaters, a generic depiction of Khornate warbands and the basics of the Khorne mythos, as with the release of the Daemonkin our faction would actually learn the bone and sinew of Khorne's worship.

 

I think that the Daemonkin is a good thing for Chaos in general and a great way to kick in gear the tournament season of 2015. It does not seem a powerful army on its own but I bet it will be worth the points in laughter, randomness and sheer awesomeness of playing Khorne as it should be played, loud, aggressive and completely nuts as we would actually have something for each death on the board, ours or that of the adversary's units.  

 

So why you shed tears of blood my brethren?

This.

[Iron Skull Mask]

I find it completely laughable that the usual suspects are screaming "Bull:cuss!" before anybody held the new supplement in hand. I wonder when people will finally realize that 40k simply is a casual game. A look at the CS and the BL supps should have taught everybody what to expect. If you dislike so strongly what chaos has to offer, and primarily want to compete in tournaments, pick up another army already and stop making everybody sick with your bile. Thanks in advance.

[Sception]

Repeat after me: It. Isn't. Just. About. Tournaments.

 

This supplement is a disappointing waste as a casual, fun codex for Khorne players. No cult terminators. No cult HQs, not even Khârn. No skullcrushers. Nothing to make playing with berzerkers less frustrating and unenjoyable. It really doesn't offer amything new or fill any of the gaps that already existed for monogod csm/daemon players.

 

It was a waste of time and effort, and was in fact worse than nothing, since because of it we can now expect to be stuck with our current absolutely unsatisfactory book (unsatisfactory not because of power but because it fails as a 'fun', 'casual' csm book) for probably an extra 2 or more years.