Khorne Daemonkin - Discussion, Tactics, Background

[Forté]

HEADS UP!

 

We've already received multiple reports from this topic. I don't want to see any further reports so keep it civil or it'll have to be locked so people can calm down.

 

Discussion is a good thing but make sure it is still within forum rules regarding intent and use of language.

 

Mods are watching.

 

Thank you.

[Adra'Melek]

Too much Khorne being channelled clearly. Well my Bloodthrister arrived, to be of the 6th. I have plans for the axes of Khorne. Also got some bikes and WFB jugger Knights. Plan on mixing. Anyone know of anyone doing it (or tryng it and not working)?

[Slayer le Boucher]

Would give the allied lord the fury axe for extra killiness.

[Lagrath]

Assuming my partner can go (he posts on this forum also), I am really excited about the War Games Con summer ITC tournament in Austin. We are hoping to do the team tournament (1,000 per player) with his Khorne Daemonkhin and my Renegades and Heretics. I think our list will be really strong, fluffy, and fun.

[Teetengee]

Daemonkin plus r and h sounds like a solid fit, they help shore up some of the problems in each other's dexes fairly well.

[minionboy]

Daemonkin plus r and h sounds like a solid fit, they help shore up some of the problems in each other's dexes fairly well.

Yeah, I'm thinking about adding a gore pack to my R&H... But that would require me to take a break from playing pure Daemonkin, haha.

[NoLifeKing]

Those two bloodletter units i've taken in my list are almost always going to deep strike onto the table, And they have done their job by deep striking onto objectives sometimes taking down some enemy backfield units like predator tanks. I really recommend trying one or two squads of minimum blood letters in your lists :) 

[minionboy]

Those two bloodletter units i've taken in my list are almost always going to deep strike onto the table, And they have done their job by deep striking onto objectives sometimes taking down some enemy backfield units like predator tanks. I really recommend trying one or two squads of minimum blood letters in your lists :)

I've considered dropping one of my marine squads in a rhino for 16 Bloodletters, I still need to assemble them though and I'm quite fond of the resilience of the marines.

[Scribe]

T3....it really sucks.

 

I've had ok times with them, especially in larger squads, but when I was running daemons, it was Nurgle as the Khorne guys just die and die and die.

[Khornestar]

Too much Khorne being channelled clearly. Well my Bloodthrister arrived, to be of the 6th. I have plans for the axes of Khorne. Also got some bikes and WFB jugger Knights. Plan on mixing. Anyone know of anyone doing it (or tryng it and not working)?

When I'm finished assembling them, I'll have 18 skullcrushers-as-bikers. No bikes involved, the juggernaut is the bike, so to speak. I prefer 40k/forge world torsos and shoulder pads. The arms are a bit long, so the joint at the shoulder needs to be cut back a bit. The heads work just fine. I also prefer to cut off the pointy boot tips and replace them with the boot tips from the raptors/warp talons kit to make them appear less out of place.

[Lagrath]

 

 

All the rules are written for the beginning of the actual game.

 

What do you base this assumption on? It seems crystal clear to me that the beginning of the game isn't mentioned or meant.

 

I agree that they should have clarified it for blood tithe (just look at the people questioning it regardless) and I get that people like to circumvent interceptor by pledging for the seemingly missing expression "reserves".

 

To me, it rather proves my point that when assuming otherwise, a BT summoned from blood tithe is treated differently than a BT summoned from daemonology.

It makes no sense at all that a veil arriving from reserves could be shot at, but not a veil arriving from somewhere on the board (via reserves).

 

ruleswise, what is generally stated to be synonymus must be treated as such in any special case. Otherwise bolters couldn't be fired because the profile doesn't say so.

 

The very first paragraph of the DS rules: 

1) literally states that no unit can DS without starting in reserves

2) mentions DS to be "sometimes called Deep Strike Reserves" (in a relative clause refering to - and only to - the expression "Deep Strike", nothing else in that sentence)

3) explicitly references the reserve rules on pg. 135

 

it couldn't be more precise.

 

On the other side, there is not a single mention of deep strike excluding reserves. none, nowhere. If it was possible, you'd expect at least ONE explication somewhere, wouldn't you?

This interpretation is based solely on an old FAQ from previous editions that does no longer apply, (unsupported) assumptions about designer intent and habitual misreading.  

 

That is because DS without reserves is an oxymoron. DS always necessitates reserves and any explicit mention is just repeating the general rule for clarity.

 

and last but not least: BECAUSE DS is a variant of "moving" onto the board from reserves, FMCs may change their flight mode from the default swooping at the start of it.

 

 

"Score 1 VP at the end of your turn if, during your turn, at least one unit with the Daemon of Khorne special rule arrived from Deep Strike Reserve or was summoned as a result of the Blood for the Blood God! special rule."

-Codex: Khorne Daemonkhin, tactical objective #15, p. 119 (emphasis added)

 

Even though I think it should be obvious from how the DS rule and the BftBG! rules are written, this part of the codex actually does explicitly point out that BftBG! is a special rule for putting units on the board that does not bring in said units from Deep Strike Reserve. The units were not placed into Reserve at the beginning of the game or instantly "reserved" in some wonky way when brought in - as far as the writing and the mechanics of the rules go, units brought into play via BftBG! do not exist until they are brought on and are not deep striking from reserve when they are placed.

 

Edit: In sum, there are 3 ways to come in with Deep Strike placement (as far as I know):

 

1) Arriving from Deep Strike Reserves. The rulebook explicitly says that flying MCs count as Swooping if coming in from Deep Strike Reserves.

2) Being summoned in via Conjuration. The rulebook explicitly says that a) this unit arrives by deep strike and b] when it does so, it counts as deep striking in from Reserves.

3) Being summoned in via Blood for the Blood God! The codex states that this unit arrives by deep strike, but is missing the additional sentence from Conjuration that says this unit also counts as coming in from Reserves. Furthermore, there's an example elsewhere in the codex that explicitly makes it clear that BftBG! summoning is NOT the same thing as coming in via Deep Strike Reserves.

 

Thus, both by omission and by explicit text, this means that BftBG! units are unaffected by the Reserves requirement of coming in Swooping in the case of flying MCs.

[minionboy]

Uh oh, prepare to have one definition of "or" spelled out for you.

[Kol Saresk]

HEADS UP!

 

We've already received multiple reports from this topic. I don't want to see any further reports so keep it civil or it'll have to be locked so people can calm down.

 

Discussion is a good thing but make sure it is still within forum rules regarding intent and use of language.

 

Mods are watching.

 

Thank you.

Yeah, I think I'll just repost this.

[Emperor's Furor]

Won't be able to get a game today unfortunately, not feeling well. I was wondering when it came down to it though which you would prefer to have out of these three options, the HQ will be in a rhino with 8 khorne marines with CCWs, a power maul and a combi melta.

 

1. Chaos Lord with Axe of Khorne and Blood Forged Armour

2. Chaos Lord with Kor'lath, the Axe of Ruin and Aura of dark glory

3. Herald with Exalted Locus of Wrath / Collar of Khorne and 8 Bloodletters on their own.

 

Edit: As to the reserve rule etc on page 111 at the bottom it has Designer Notes that state it arrives following the rules of Deep striking.

[Forté]

Yeah, I think I'll just repost this.

Cheers Kol.

 

I'll make a suggestion which essentially goes for every rule which really needs a FAQ to clear up...

 

Discuss it with your opponent/ tournament organiser before games begin so you know which interpretation is being used.

 

Now please move on as this round robin isn't going anywhere.

[Teetengee]

 

Yeah, I think I'll just repost this.

Cheers Kol.

 

I'll make a suggestion which essentially goes for every rule which really needs a FAQ to clear up...

 

Discuss it with your opponent/ tournament organiser before games begin so you know which interpretation is being used.

 

Now please move on as this round robin isn't going anywhere.

 

Do we think a mod should move the rule discussion bits of this to the OR forum, since that is it's main function?

[Forté]

Let's just redirect the rules discussion to this topic in the Official Rules forum:

 

Changing Flight Modes & Summoned Blood...

[Smurfalypse]

 

I'm hoping to get a 1.5k game in this weekend and was wondering on what to equip my chaos lord with, I was originally just going to give him the Blood-forged Armour and Axe of Khorne, but I'm tempted to give him Kor'lath, the axe of ruin and Aura of Dark Glory for :cusss and giggles. What do you think?

 

Goredrinker, Juggernaught, Ax of Khorne, sigil.  Just over 200 points and after killing 5 guys with goredrinker you can have at initiative STR 10 AP 2 that moves 12 inches and re-rolls charge range with potentially 8 attacks on the charge.

 

 

Remember, Goredrinker is UNSAVED wounds, not just kills. So even if they make their FnP roll you still get a tally on your chart there. This thing has been pretty money for me in the four games I have played, have had it on a Lord though but I think I am with you, going to swap over to a cheaper Herald and have the Lord do all the challenge stuff.

[oreaper84]

^{So i have had a couple of games under my belt and i have to say i am really enjoying 40k more than i have in a long time. The army now plays in a style that rewards my super aggressive efforts regardless of the outcome. It is soooo Khorne. I have found success with 2 different styles both of which feature a slaughter cult and some extras.}

 

^{The 1st is zerkers in rhinos  with a juggerlord at the helm. Mine is kitted with a sigil/power axe/and skull helm. I was running the goredrinker prior but have had better results with high attack potential. add some single spawn cultists, a gorepack, and defiler/forgefiend.....lots of threat quickly and lots of pressure plus tons of small sac units for tithe.  Lb for Lb im liking summoning the skull cannon, a free large blast with later hammer of wrath potential if a bargian and it hardly ever takes more that 1-2 turns to get the 6 tithe (i usually do it in one turn).}

 

^{The 2nd list features a cheap as chips herald with CSM units  And a charnel cohort with a 2nd herald (scouting  beacon of slicing doom, for precise bombardment of deamon)}

^{My favorite units are the hounds (i used to use spawn as the delivery but dogs are soo much better) and the solo spawn, a super fast fearless threat that gives up a blood tithe or ties up a unit (hellon this what spawn should have been for the last several books!!!!)}

[Slayer le Boucher]

It seems -and its really unexpected- that people really enjoy this codex, and its actually a fun codex to play.

 

there is still things that i find mindboogling, but apparantly the codex mecanics works well enough to forget that from the posts and Batreps i see.

 

Still have to wait 2 weeks before i can play a game cause of work, but i'm quite excited now to play them.

 

Was thinking of a Slaughtercult with Juggelord CSm+Zerkers+Letters. Gore pack, 2 Maulers or a Mauler + soulcrusher and if i can squish it in allied Khârn+Cultist and LR.

[Scribe]

Hmm solo spawn? I like the idea.

 

In other news, picked up my new Bloodthirster kit. Its so metal ( \m/ ) , so Khorne. I love it all. 

[Khornestar]

Hmm solo spawn? I like the idea.

 

In other news, picked up my new Bloodthirster kit. Its so metal ( \m/ ) , so Khorne. I love it all.

 

Totally agreed, I think it's one of the best kits they've ever released. I assembled mine as insensate rage. Which did you make?

[Scribe]

Yep, cannot pass up the STR D. :D

[ThatOneMarshal]

I'm wondering but what would be the best blood thirster? When the rules for it were first shown the one carrying the D axe got a lot of hate. Since you guys have been playing with it is better than the first impression? Just wondering what I'll most likely be facing in the future.

[Scribe]

Since there are Knights around here, thats why I've gone with the 2H version. He's certainly no slouch.