Khorne Daemonkin - Discussion, Tactics, Background

[miteyheroes]

I'm running an unbound force of 6 Unfettered Fury Bloodthirsters in 1500pts tonight, against some Eldar. Looking forward to it! He normally runs MSU, so I'm guessing that I'll be racking up the Tithe fairly fast, hopefully using them for a mix of pulling in little guys to seize objectives and buffing my dudes. Planning on taking out the witches/serpents/avatar/wraithlords first, then mopping up the rest... I hopefully won't get stuck with an invisible avatar again!

[Carrack]

One little detail I noticed is that Daemonkin Terminator Champs do not have to pay the higher point cost for upgrades that they do in the CSM codex.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Just checking something, if I take a Blood Host as my Primary Detachment in a Battle-Forged army do I get the automatic +1 Tithe point per turn and the ability to take a free Tithe reward of lesser value because my Warlord is part of the Slaughtercult Formation? 

[Scribe]

The lesser value rule applies to only the models in the Slaughtercult. As 1+ Slaughtercults are Required for a Blood Host detachment, the answer is yes. :]

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

The lesser value rule applies to only the models in the Slaughtercult. As 1+ Slaughtercults are Required for a Blood Host detachment, the answer is yes. :]

 

Well then. 

 

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

[Lucio]

Well, I got 2 games in tonight and both were victories! I used the list posted here - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/306069-1000pts-blood-host/
 
First game was against Space Marines using the Imperial Fists chapter tactics and was a straight up fight. I won the dice roll and gave him the first turn. The opening exchanges saw his shooting fail mostly due to being out of range, though his scouts managed to kill a Possessed. My return attacks for the turn were woefully useless.

 

Turn 2 saw his scouts end up in charge range of my Chaos Spawn and Warlord, and was the expected slaughter, giving me First Blood, and a bonus Blood Tithe point, I was also lucky enough to have my Possessed pick off his Land Speeder, pushing my tithe total to 4, so on Turn 3, was able to activate FnP and +1 Atttack, and get my Warlord + Spawn into position to charge a squad of Tactical Marines along with my Berzerkers. My Rhino attempted a tank shock to run a Tactical Squad over, but they decided against a Death or Glory attack, but gave me the Linebreaker VP. My sole remaining Possessed charged his warlord Librarian

Turn 4 was a bloodbath, the Spawn were shot to pieces by a tactical squad, leaving my Warlord on 2 Wounds, and the Berzerkers were thinned out, along with the CSM squad in the ruins. I was down to 3 models in the Berzerkers, 3 in the CSM squad, the Soul Grinder and my Warlord when Turn 5 rolled around, but was ahead 5 VP to his 3 as I managed to get my Warlord to slay his Librarian, Whilst we called game at this point, one more turn would have seen all but my Soul Grinder wiped out from his 7 man tactical squad and Devastator squad in the ruins in the backfield.

------------------

Second battle was against Necrons, which I've never faced before. They were certainly tough using the detatchment to get 4+ Reanimation Protocols. Again, I won the die roll and let my opponent go first. We went with a Maelstrom style game but only using 3 objective markers due to a smaller table and 1000pt game. I'd chosen to setup on one half of the board to avoid his Nightbringer C'Tan and a squad of warriors.

The opening fire saw a Possessed die to his Destroyers, and a wound off a Chaos Spawn, whilst I failed to get through the Reanimation Protocols but from turn 2 onwards it became a bloodbath as my Berzerkers, Possessed and Chaos Spawn all got into charge range and thanks to some lucky rolls, all managed to assault. The Destroyers were wiped out by the Possessed due to fleeing melee, the Berzerkers took down a Necron Warrior squad, and the Warlord got locked into a combat challenge with the overlord that lasted the rest of the game. Despite managing over 20 attacks at AP2, his 3++ save and 4+ Reanimation Protocol kept his OVerlord alive until turn 4, when I'd managed to get enough points to summon a Bloodthirster in (we ruled that he arrived on the ground, not swooping OR gliding)

[Slaanbull]

Nice short write-up Lucio, if you were to use the 1000pts list for a larger game like 1300 pts or around that, what'd you add in?

I honestly have no interest in the Khorne Daemonkin, but this thread and the others about it has had some nice discussions, the buzz around a Chaos release is also really nice. :)
Crossing my fingers for a sonic weapon/combat drug+noise marine centric Slaanesh book in the future.

[Lucio]

My next expansion would be a Gorepack, as it's clear this army thrives in short range firefights and assault. The bikers would use flamers to thin infantry squads to reduce the amount of shooting and the flesh hounds work as a better bodyguard for the Chaos Lord.

 

I'd also look to increase the Possessed squad size as Strength 6 on the charge is surprisingly effective at glancing vehicles to death when you're rolling 4 to 5 attacks per model against Rear armour and in a squad of 10 could threaten a Dreadnaught.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

My next expansion would be a Gorepack, as it's clear this army thrives in short range firefights and assault. The bikers would use flamers to thin infantry squads to reduce the amount of shooting and the flesh hounds work as a better bodyguard for the Chaos Lord. I'd also look to increase the Possessed squad size as Strength 6 on the charge is surprisingly effective at glancing vehicles to death when you're rolling 4 to 5 attacks per model against Rear armour and in a squad of 10 could threaten a Dreadnaught.

 

Whoa, hold your horses there Lucio. This is the chaos forum and you're not allowed to speak positively about the possessed ;)

 

I actually share your thoughts, and think that if used correctly the possessed can actually be a workable unit. Sure they aren't going to be as good as some other units (flesh hounds I'm looking at you), but as a counter charge unit or light vehicle busting unit their extra strength comes in handy.

[Sception]

There are many things wrong with possessed, but that doesn't stop them from being good if they're essentially free, which they are in the slaughter cult, since the detachment & formation's benefits are worth that 150 point tax on their own. If you're taking them anyway, adding a couple extra models, or even an allied detachment to snag a dreadclaw for them aren't necessarily terrible investments.

 

I'd argue that making them a tax is a pretty terrbile way of 'fixing' them, though.

[minionboy]

Honestly, I've had a lot of good results with my Possessed so far. Usually my opponent is too busy dealing with my bikes and flesh hounds that the possessed get ignored long enough to just walk up the board and get into combat. Granted, I wouldn't take them normally, but the added survivability from FNP almost every round (yay Slaughtercult), has actually made them pretty nasty.

[Dallas Drake]

Possessed having MoK & DoK together doesn't hurt them either.

 

But honestly, Possessed aren't going to get 'fixed' though, yes they're very pricey & badly lack assault grenades but if they were say 22 or 23 points & had assault grenades they'd be sooooo bad ass. Plus I don't think they were never 'that' bad in the first place, situational & random for sure, but I do think most people might find them more useful than they expected now they have to take them.

 

I've also had good success with Possessed going after light vehicles, walkers, and also MCs that lack 2+ saves. There's not many units that would like to be charged by them so I just throw them into the bloodfest & see what they kill. If they distract fire or earn a few Blood Tithe points then great. If not, meh no great lost at 150 points... My CSMs, bikes & Flesh hounds kill the GEQs/MEQs anyway.

 

Also, to build on what Mal said, if you do have an allied CAD & give them a Dreadclaw then a Dark Apostle for Zealot can make them really nasty.

[Lagrath]

I still think people should take a Land Raider with the Khorne ++1 upgrade from IA:13 and then ship their Possessed and Herald with the rage locus in it.

 

Whole unit has 4++ and re-rolls and can assault out of the Land Raider.

[Lucio]

The lack of assault grenades can be worked around with careful use of the Skullcannon, which is why for 2000 points I'm looking at taking a Charnel Cohort along.

 

Like the idea of the Land Raider but is IA13 "legal" for Daemonkin or do you have to ally in CSM anyway?

 

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

Ally in csm or go unbound

[Scribe]

Ally in an Axe juggerlord from CSM isnt the worst thing in the world either. Toss in 10 cultists and pick up the LR.

 

At that point, your Slaughtercult HQ is the Herald I guess. I dont know, feels like a lot of work to get the most out of Possessed, kind of like we had to deal with Berzerkers + LR's for the longest time.

[Lucio]

If I were allying a detachment in I think a Dark Apostle to go alongside the Possessed to grant Zealot would be a good choice (taking Prophet of the Voices from the Crimson Slaughter) and a MoK.

[Scribe]

I dont know, I've had massive success with my Daemon Axe lord, far more than what Zealot would grant I would think.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

You're putting 345pts (at a bare minimum for a Lord, Cultists, LR), plus whatever the IA13 upgrade costs, into making Possessed slightly better. 

 

Just accept they're kinda sucky and don't throw good money after bad.

[Kol Saresk]

The lack of assault grenades can be worked around with careful use of the Skullcannon, which is why for 2000 points I'm looking at taking a Charnel Cohort along.Like the idea of the Land Raider but is IA13 "legal" for Daemonkin or do you have to ally in CSM anyway?

Honestly, it wasn't a clear answer. I think it was Scribe who asked and the reply was that it was made for the main Codices, and not the supplements. But the Khorne Daemonkin isn't a supplement. Not in the same that Crimson Slaughter or Black Legion are at any rate.

 

So when I asked Forgeworld for clarification on how it is a supplement even though it's written as a main Codex and not a supplement(ie it has all of the army-specific rules written inside of it instead of just the supplement specific ones and referencing back to the main Codex), or at least not as one of the Chaos supplements are written, well I got a funny reply telling me my questions would be addressed in an upcoming FAQ.

 

So I would argue that you should do the one thing you should always do before a game: check with your opponent.

[Hezirah]

Prophet of Voice character won't be able to join non-crimson possesseds. I would stick in either lord or sorcerer.

 

Kinda worried about new wraithknight. Sounds like getting into close combat with it (even with D weapon bloodthirster) won't be an option.

Would rending fire raptor be good choice against wraithknight?

[minionboy]

Prophet of Voice character won't be able to join non-crimson possesseds. I would stick in either lord or sorcerer.

 

Kinda worried about new wraithknight. Sounds like getting into close combat with it (even with D weapon bloodthirster) won't be an option.

Would rending fire raptor be good choice against wraithknight?

 

It still needs 5's to hit the thirster in combat, and even then, it'll need a 6 to reliably kill it before the thirster swings. I'm not worried.

[Dallas Drake]

 

 

Prophet of Voice character won't be able to join non-crimson possesseds. I would stick in either lord or sorcerer.

 

Kinda worried about new wraithknight. Sounds like getting into close combat with it (even with D weapon bloodthirster) won't be an option.

Would rending fire raptor be good choice against wraithknight?

It still needs 5's to hit the thirster in combat, and even then, it'll need a 6 to reliably kill it before the thirster swings. I'm not worried.

Didn't one kill 2 Bloodthirsters in the new White Dwarf? IDK if that's true but I'm sure I saw it bring mentioned in a bunch of 'sky is falling' comments on faeit 212.

[Dysorange]

The Wraithknight killed one Bloodthirster in duel and Two Toxicrenes in a second fight.

 

And as minionboy stated The Wraithknight stats for killing a BT are not so good, throw in the possibility that WD peppered the duel with a few unmentioned rerolls to enhance the result.....if the WK lost all of his duels who would buy it? 

 

Back to the topic, I don't know if this issue has been addressed or not...

 

If I want to take a Slaughter cult as my main detachment and support it with a Combined Arm detachment from the Daemonkin, how would the Blood tithe pool work out? Do everyone add to the common pool? 

 

Also when I activate one power do I have to select which detachment benefit from it or do both my detachment could be under the effect since they are both Daemonkin?

 

I am considering to buy the book soon but some things are good to know before throwing all my money at GW for stuff that wont work as I intend !

[Scribe]

It does not differentiate within the book if its multiple pools, it says "Army", but it does say all friendly models within the faction gain the benefits and contribute to the pool. 

 

So to me.

 

1 Pool per Army

An army is composed of 1 or more formations/detachments/etc.

All units gain the buffs if they have Blood for the Blood God.