Starting Out 4: Onager Dunecrawlers

[Marshal Ommadon]

For the sake of completion here is a place to talk about the Dunecrawlers!

[Tiger9gamer]

Oh good, I was hoping for one of these. Way to run with my idea!

anyways, I myself am looking to get one with a neutron laser for a quick ally. that str 10 would be great at range to break armor and put pressure on bikes. Combine it with a phosphor walker and you can buff/debuff to your content.

[Marshal Ommadon]

Me too, though I was wondering if the Cognis Manipulator is worth the 25 points.  It makes you Dunecrawler's 1 attack S10, AP1 and gives it the It Will Not Die special rule.  I think its worth it but it will raise the base cost of the Dunecrawler to 115 before you buy a weapon upgrade.  Thoughts? 

[Tiger9gamer]

I don't think it is because if You do it right it should never see combat. It will not die is nice but it hardly works for me so I can't say I love it =(

[Sawtooth]

I want to run at least three of these things because I love them. I don't have any experience using vehicle squads, should I put them all together for the force field bonus, or keep them as individual choices?

[Battybattybats]

I just love the look of the cognis manipulator so i'll put it on at least 1 Onager.

[Kilofix]

I know folks say Skitarii are mostly Infantry but really you could take 12 Onagers and another 12 Dragoon / Striders with only 10 Infantry.

 

Funds permitting, I'm half tempted to go with a heavy Onager list.

[Marshal Ommadon]

I think you should put all 3 Dunecrawlers together because of the Field Harmonics rule.  By having 3 together you make their 6+ inv save a 4+.

[Tiger9gamer]

True, but can't you do the same if they are close together anyways? it doesn't say they need to be squadroned, does it?

[Dom_]

I'm looking at a squad of 3 with 2 neutron lasers, and 1 Icarus array. That way they get their 4++ and can threaten all enemy armor as well as heavy infantry and MCs.

[Marshal Ommadon]

If the Icarus Array fires at a ground target it has to fire Snap Shots as all of its weapons have the Skyfire rule.  While when the Icarus Array fires at a Flyer the Neutron Lasers also have to fire at the Flyer too and since Flyers are immune to blast and template weapons they will be unable to fire their Neutron Lasers.  The only way to fire  one of the weapons of the Icarus Array at a Flyer and the rest at a ground target is to use the Interceptor rule from one of the guns on the Array.

[TheAvengingKnee]

True, but can't you do the same if they are close together anyways? it doesn't say they need to be squadroned, does it?

It specifies for each model in the squadron within 4"

[Tiger9gamer]

Ahh damn I didn't see that. hmm... still think seperate squads may be better. one str10 blast is fun but two or three on a target may be overkill.

 

 

how about 1 phosphor and 2 neutrons?

[TheAvengingKnee]

It really depends on what you want them to do, if you are marine hunting the phosphor will be very handy. 

[Tiger9gamer]

Yes it will. basically use the phosphor as a meat-shield/ targeter so the lasers get -1 cover.

[TheAvengingKnee]

I am thinking it will make a good unit for softening up units at long range to prepare them to be charged, or at least that is what I will use them for. 

[Battybattybats]

After the flyers/skimmers are dead the Icarus will be snapfiring at ground targets anyway, and until they are flyers and skimmers will likely be priority targets where some other snapshots might be worth having. So mixing Icarus with other weapons in the one unit remains an efficient flexible tactic outside of games large enough to dedicate a whole group of 3 just to flyer/skimmer killing.

[Vel'Cona]

Thanks for rolling out this thread!  This is the one I've been really waiting for, because the Onagers are EASILY the bread winner in the Skitarii codex and my favorite new unit in 7th edition.  For your consideration:

 

Onager Dunecrawler good points:

+Very reasonable points cost

+Incredibly flexible weapon options

+Unmatched mobility in difficult/dangerous terrain (Crawler)

+Surprising durability in full squadrons (AV12, 3 HP, 4++ save, access to IWND)

+Doctrina Imperatives!!!

 

Rough with the smooth, though:

-Very poor in melee (even upgraded)

-Target specific weapons (anti-armor, anti-infantry, anti-air)

-Rather slow in general (6" move, can't Run)

-Vulnerable in small units (take 3, PERIOD!!!)

-Large bases

 

In general, these are necessary to give Skitarii an effective firebase, and are the cornerstone of this list.  There aren't any bad weapon options, but it's important to consider what your Dunecrawlers will be doing (you are taking 3, right?).  The stock weapon is probably the worst choice, as its variable profile is really more detrimental than helpful, even though this does make it slightly more flexible.  If you could choose which firing mode to use, it'd be amazing, but not being able to predict your attacks makes this a so-so choice at best.  The Phosphor Blaster is a decent choice, as its AP3 will do good work against MEQ armies and the Luminagen rule is great for setting up consecutive attacks vs. cover camping enemies, or setting up long charges for your Sicarians/Dragoons.  The Neutron Laser is my personal favorite, as it gives you an absolutely devastating anti-armor shot with plenty of range and incredible accuracy (especially under Imperatives).  Even better, the Blast marker means it can take out multiple MEQ or 2+ armor save enemies per shot, and this all comes at a very reasonable price cost over the base equip.  Finally, the Icarus Array is a somewhat controversial choice due to its pure Skyfire setup.  I think this is the ONE situation where a single Dunecrawler would be OK, as this is probably the best anti-aircraft in any codex for the cost, especially with the built-in Interceptor rule.  You may even want to take two of them in a squadron for really big games (2k and up).

 

TL:DR starting here.  I'll save my thoughts on vehicle upgrades for later!

[FashaTheDog]

I was looking at a squadron of three with cognis manipulators, cognis stubbers, and a mindscanner probe (maybe two).  Since being within 9" is where you want them and it is likely there will be friends of whatever you just vaporized, you probably will get charged.  The probe helps keep them from taking too much pain, while the stubbers help add to overwatch on the cheap, you can then stand some chance of fighting back .  If nothing else, it will mean that if you (or when I) botch your shooting at that Land Raider, you can try to hit it too.  Since I know that I will magnetize all but the one I get for dedicated AA duty, it won't kill me to try this out.

[Marshal Ommadon]

I'm thinking about making my 3 all Neutron Lasers with Cognis Manipulators, Cognis Heavy Stubbers, and maybe a Mindscanner Probe or two. 

[FashaTheDog]

I'm thinking about making my 3 all Neutron Lasers with Cognis Manipulators, Cognis Heavy Stubbers, and maybe a Mindscanner Probe or two. 

Needs more cognis.

[Marshal Ommadon]

So I'm dropping the Mindscanner Probes for points reasons, but that leaves me with:

 

-  3x S10 AP1 Blasts with Concusive

-  18x S4 AP6 Cognis shots

-  Squadron with a 4++ inv save and It Will Not Die

-  3x S10 AP1 melee attacks

 

That seems pretty badass to me!

[MithrilForge]

that sounds really Killy but it cost like 42 x Arc pistol's !, thats a big point sink for 1 unit/Squadron..although i'd love to know how they go on the tabletop for our data collection topic

im thinking of doing this load out but i will only have one onager (for a while due to Real life point$ co$t's.) im guessing this is will work as my "OMG it kills tanks...shoot it now!" Model

to distract from my other ranger/vanguard units moving up into range with arc wpns...

Mithril

[doctorbored]

I was looking at a squadron of three with cognis manipulators, cognis stubbers, and a mindscanner probe (maybe two).  Since being within 9" is where you want them and it is likely there will be friends of whatever you just vaporized, you probably will get charged.  The probe helps keep them from taking too much pain, while the stubbers help add to overwatch on the cheap, you can then stand some chance of fighting back .  If nothing else, it will mean that if you (or when I) botch your shooting at that Land Raider, you can try to hit it too.  Since I know that I will magnetize all but the one I get for dedicated AA duty, it won't kill me to try this out.

 

Prohibitively expensive. When it comes to the assault phase, you have 3 powerfist attacks, which is the same that a regular Dreadnought would get. The difference? A dreadnought costs a third of the points and doesn't have such a huge tabletop footprint. The stubbers and mindscanner probe won't make much of a difference, the point is that an enemy can lock three pricey models up in close combat for a very long time with a much cheaper unit, neutering their ability to make their points back.

 

I'd much rather take anything but the Eradication Beamer. I'm thinking a squadron of 3 with 2 Neutron Lasers and 1 Heavy Phosphor. Phosphor strikes first, lowering cover save, then neutron lasers hit, then the heavy stubbers to mop up.

 

I could see giving the Cognis Manipulator to lone models. Note very importantly that the Icarus Array prohibits you from taking a cheap survival option: smoke launchers. Normally, you could just drop smoke for that first turn when there are no fliers on the board, but for the Icarus Array Dunecrawler, this isn't an option. You could, instead, give a lone Icarus Dunecrawler a Cognis Manipulator to improve its survivability with IWND to keep it on the table and able to harass those fliers. This is really the only time I could see that being useful. 

 

For other lone Dunecrawlers you could just take smoke launchers to survive that first turn alpha-strike. I don't see the point of the mindscanner probe. If the Onager gets into close combat, that's where it's going to be, and denying your opponent more attacks seems silly. Just let them kill the Onager so that you can shoot them in your shooting phase, right?

 

One final strategy would be to take separate Phosphor Blaster Onagers and using them to light up targets. With -1 cover from luminagen and -1 cover from the omnispex, lots of models are going to start sweating when they get hit by those Plasma Calivers. 

[Brother Amarel]

 

I was looking at a squadron of three with cognis manipulators, cognis stubbers, and a mindscanner probe (maybe two).  Since being within 9" is where you want them and it is likely there will be friends of whatever you just vaporized, you probably will get charged.  The probe helps keep them from taking too much pain, while the stubbers help add to overwatch on the cheap, you can then stand some chance of fighting back .  If nothing else, it will mean that if you (or when I) botch your shooting at that Land Raider, you can try to hit it too.  Since I know that I will magnetize all but the one I get for dedicated AA duty, it won't kill me to try this out.

 

Prohibitively expensive. When it comes to the assault phase, you have 3 powerfist attacks, which is the same that a regular Dreadnought would get. The difference? A dreadnought costs a third of the points and doesn't have such a huge tabletop footprint. The stubbers and mindscanner probe won't make much of a difference, the point is that an enemy can lock three pricey models up in close combat for a very long time with a much cheaper unit, neutering their ability to make their points back.

 

You are making the worst comparison, though, without accounting for the benefits - there's a lot bigger difference between three Onagers and a Dreadnought than just the points difference. Comparing a single Plasma/PF Dread with a single Eradication Beamer/Cognis suite Onager is probably closest (both cost 120 and have a blast weapon that can damage a vehicle (even if the Eradication Beamer is a little more variable)).