++Blood for the Blood God: Daemonkin community++

[Slayer le Boucher]

problem with Zerkers is that you need to set up the stage for them to be good, unlike some units that no matter what they'll perform, Zerkers can only do one thing.

 

Now on some funny news.

 

Played lately a guy who plays Black Templars, i know right?, its a sight so rare that it comends respect.

 

Played him like 3 or 4 times, din't go well for him, but then again he's a returning player, who stopped at 4th or 5th Ed i think, so cannot blame him entirely.

 

first time was to put him back in the waters and go around the rules that did change with 7th.

Second time was in a 2Vs 2 game with the BA guy who fielded 3000pts of Scouts, Scout bikes and TACs.

 

3rd time was this friday, played 3k pts.

 

Now his list was a classic BT list, but really not competitive, 3 Crusader raiders, 1 Stormeagle, 2 Rifleman dreads, 1 Dread in a Pod, Crusader squads in 2 of the raiders, Honor guard with Helbrecht in the last one and Termies with a Chappy in the Stormeagle.

 

So in insight, not that many units/models and lots of them costs points.

 

He got nearly tabled by turn 3, His Stormeagle was destroyed by my Stormeagle, well more like down to 1 HP an then a lucky shot of my Soulgrinder took it down, killing 3 of the termies and the Chappy.

 

he took a look at the table at that time, he had like 10 models still alive and a Raider, while i lost only a bike unit, a Blood slaugtherer, and still had my Zerker squad in my raider with the Skull taker, and another CSM squad in the Stormeagle.

 

Conceded the game, then told me that even though i'm a fun bloke to play with, he thinks its the last time he will play Vs my army, because its obvious( to him) that he will never win.

 

Then we made a debrief on what he's done wrong and whats not working with his list that he used Vs my list, he told me that he like playing what he wants rather then play the same as others and stay fluff, wich i completly respect, but it doesn't change the fact that some units, just under performs.

 

I pointed out that Crusaders Raiders are like a joke to me, apart for the Multi melta none of the weapons are really lethal enough Vs my models, specially when i succeed FnP rolls like 2 on 3.

 

Also while he's fluff, Helbrecht is simply not a good Beatstick character, sure his rule that give the whole army hatred and rage for a turn is nice, but you should'nt throw him Vs a GoreAxe JuggerLord, its basically throwing his life away.

 

Then the tactic of podding a single Dread in my rear zone, is not efficient enough, now due to deviation he missed the rear of my Soulgrinder by a few inches, but since the dread was just Assault cannon and stormbolter, there is little that he's could have done, the dread then got destroyed by my Possesed assault.

 

I felt sorry for the bugger, but hey, he's got 12kpts of Templars, he just need to tweak his list around.

[Prot]

Slayer, good feedback and I appreciate you were trying to help the guy out.

 

I would politely suggest your BT opponent checks out the Templar section at the BnC. Those guys are adamant that it does work. I've read a lot of their batreps and they seem to have adjusted nicely, maybe not top tier but then again neither is KDK.

 

That was a fun read. At higher points it must be great to get FNP by T2!

 

Also just wanted to say that I did a little "versus" experiment linked in my KDK thread (if you're curious). Now I will confess I just did this test while waiting for an opponent. However I did take one of my best generic beatstick Ultramarines HQ bike setups and I put it head to head with my best KDK Jugg Lord, Flesh Hound units.

 

I recorded something like 5 full combats and only once were the results close. I tried to take a comedic angle on it but the results even surprised me. Really TWC are king and a few other characters are amazing but that Jugg Lord is quite the boss.

[Slayer le Boucher]

Well the guy is a french user, and i'm not sure of his level of english, but i can recommend him the read neverless.

 

And yeah with Blood host and if you set things up correctly like placing your bike champ to die first, you can get an easy 3 Blood points by turn 2.

 

Of course its possible to make working lists with BT's, i mean they are still Marines with full acces to their toys, except for psykers.

 

But like i said his list was really a bad match Vs my list.

 

Can happen, the kind of lists/armies i don't like to face with my KDK are mostly Nids; No characters in the units, sometimes too large units to plow through.

 

Nids is the army that i've go the most a hard time, its possible to win, but i have to play the scenario, since my ability to produce Blood Points is kinda gimped by the nature of the army.

 

And yeah KDK JuggerLord is a real Beatstick, be it with a Gore-Axe or an Armor-Axe combo, been able to strike with AP2 at Init 5 is no laughing matter really.

 

And 6 to 7 attacks or more for a single model is always amazing, i mean most of the other characters only has 4-5 A outside of Khârn who's got 7 on the charge

[Khornestar]

Haven't had much time to work on stuff, but I've added a few new Fangs.

 

First is a slight modification of the axe-wielder. I changed his left arm to one that I think looks more natural. I may have slightly overdone the armpit tubing, but I think once he's painted it will look more subtle:

 

http://i.imgur.com/H5nsuS8h.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/3WLsRfMh.jpg

 

Next I added a second axe-wielder. Similar, but still distinct. With all my creations it's a balancing act between symmetry and unique features, both of which I value quite a bit:

 

http://i.imgur.com/UlMRXS7h.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/oYlMKsnh.jpg

 

Then I made two more Aspiring Champions, in case I want to run the units as MSU.

 

First, the lightning claw champ:

 

http://i.imgur.com/azrudQrh.jpg

 

 

Then, a power lance (will be used as a lightning claw or CCW, :cuss power lances) and a buckler of sorts:

 

http://i.imgur.com/0iiYXRph.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/6nNjiblh.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/EPFAmdzh.jpg

[Prot]

Venom. You continue to amaze. I am blown away on many levels. I love your creativity but I can't get over how you have 'no time' to paint, yet find the hours to put these great guys together. You really, really need to put some paint on these guys... .just plow through a squad. You have far too many great looking figs to just have them sit like this. It's killing me, and I happen to know the blood god... he's upset too. ;)

[Khornestar]

Venom. You continue to amaze. I am blown away on many levels. I love your creativity but I can't get over how you have 'no time' to paint, yet find the hours to put these great guys together. You really, really need to put some paint on these guys... .just plow through a squad. You have far too many great looking figs to just have them sit like this. It's killing me, and I happen to know the blood god... he's upset too.

 

Haha, it's half excuse-making and half the ridiculous amount of time it takes me to paint. Assembly is really easy for me, but I take forever to do anything paint related.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

During the weekend I was that Warhammer World for the Throne of Skulls event & saw this really cool Chaos Marine force by Alex, useing Daemonkin.  Gutted I never mange to talk to Alex until near the end of the event.  This was just that the start of Round 4 on Sunday.

 

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt347/Insane-Psychopath/ToS%20March%2016/DSC00351_zpsbleawu9m.jpg

 

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt347/Insane-Psychopath/ToS%20March%2016/DSC00353_zpsia6nkasw.jpg

 

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt347/Insane-Psychopath/ToS%20March%2016/DSC00354_zpsar3qqpeo.jpg

 

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt347/Insane-Psychopath/ToS%20March%2016/DSC00499_zpsymmuyh8f.jpg

[Khornestar]

Holy :cuss those are awesome!

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Holy those are awesome!

 

Alex has a painting guide & more of his models along with army on parade board posted up on the Games Workshop army painter group on facebook (public group).  There all really cool & it a really nice army.

 

[Soldier of Dorn]

Those Bloodletters remind me of the John Blanche one featured in the 5th Edition Daemons Codex. Marvelous looking force.

[Prot]

Very nice IP! That's a nice theme he's got there. I just wish that Kytan was a bit better in game.... such a cool model.

 

BTW: Tell me your Knight stomped out those goofy Mechanicus dudes swarming you. lol

[Soldier of Dorn]

Went over to Facebook and tried to find the tutorial, and thought I'd mirror it over here for the convenience of all y'all, so that you wouldn't have to go through a half hour of searching like I did.
 
 

http://i.imgur.com/a1sXSJw.jpg
 
 
Okay, so - to start with, undercoat the model in white and basecoat the entire thing in the brightest yellow you have available. I used a 1:1 mix of Citadel Flash Gitz and Vallejo Fluorescent Yellow, as the latter on its own can look very green unless mixed with a warmer colour.
 
http://i.imgur.com/h71Q5gy.jpg
 
Step two is an overbrush of a bright orange over all of the skin. I used a 1:1 mix of Citadel Fire Dragon Bright and Vallejo Fluorescent yellow.

A fun thing about fluorescent paints - they take a while to fully dry, so you can get some fun blends going by overbrushing while the previous layer is still a bit tacky.

Overbrush your colour of choice over all of the skin - you only want the yellow basecoat to show through in the hottest areas - i.e., the deepest recesses. Areas where the hide would be thinner - the cheeks, stomach, armpits, inner thighs etc should also be left yellow.
 
 
http://i.imgur.com/jegFRRD.jpg
 
Next step is more or less the same idea - overbrush a darker orange, once again leaving the brighter colours showing through where the skin is thinner or the recesses are deeper. This was a 1:1 mix of Citadel Troll Slayer Orange and Vallejo Fluorescent Orange.
 
http://i.imgur.com/feKsrh8.jpg
 
The previous step from a different angle. It's still obviously messy, but the idea should be starting to come together by now.
 
http://i.imgur.com/W0LceOX.jpg
 
Now we start to cool down the lava, adding some red to the mix. Citadel Wazdakka Red is a nice cool colour, almost with hints of brown to it, which is our next step. Now that we're dealing with smaller areas, I'd advise layering the paint on with it heavily watered down instead of overbrushing or drybrushing.
 
http://i.imgur.com/hj30B6X.jpg
 
Apologies for the photo of this one - I didn't think to check the quality before progressing.

With the reds and oranges done, the next step is the areas that would've solidified, were this actually made of lava. Tough hide, brow ridges, horns and protruding bones (elbows, spines, etc) are all good candidates.

For colour, I used a 1:1 mix of Rhinox Hide and Dark Reaper - the latter picked as it's a nice cool green-grey that offsets the oranges better than a neutral grey like Dawnstone would.

Build up the colour in progressive layers - if you add plenty of water or medium, it should form a transluscent effect that you can build up until you're happy.
 
http://i.imgur.com/31kgpaZ.jpg
 
Nearly done by this point - in this step, I used glazes toblend some of the oranges and yellows together and tone down areas of muscle that are otherwise too bright or stark. This helps the model look overall less yellow and more orange and fiery - without this, I found that from a distance the bloodletter more resembled a wasp than a flame.

I used a 1:1 mix of Lamentor's Yellow and, appropriately, Bloodletter, but you can have fun changing the mix (or using either glaze neat) in different areas to add some variation. Glazing over the previous step is fine too, and will help pull the colours of the brown-grey and the oranges together.
 
http://i.imgur.com/Ohg3ekB.jpg
 
Last step is to go back and highlight the grey areas. I used Dark Reaper and a detail brush - the photo hasn't really picked up on it though. I may have to pick up Thunderhawk Blue when I next can and experiment with using that for edge highlighting.

I also added a few details that don't merit individual progress shots here:
I painted the teeth and claws Dark Reaper, more out of laziness than anything else. I added a spot of white in each eye, at the base of the tongue and in the nose, then glazed them with a watered down Vallejo Fluorescent Yellow.
I also gave the tongue a thin coat of Blood For The Blood God.

The sword and base still need doing, but I imagine that's not really what's of interest here.
 
http://i.imgur.com/NqqaFiC.jpg
 
And done! A blurry photo of the two bloodletters I've done so far. If anyone tries this attempt at a tutorial, please let me know how it goes and share pictures.

[Dragonlover]

Am I feeling crazy enough to do my Bloodthirster like that? Because that would look amazing. I'll see how I feel in a couple of months.

 

Dragonlover

[HeresyBeliever]

I am starting to build a KDK army out of what I have from my Daemon and CSM armies.

 

My options for a list are

 

Bloodthirster (old model converted with 2 axes (Skarbarand) ) I plan to use him as a D Thirster

Herald on Juggernaut

Loads of cultists

Plenty of space marines

1 unit of Berzerkers

1 Rino

1 Spined chaos beast

2 Blood slaughterers

1 Decimator

2 Defilers

10 terminators 

 

I was looking to buy a Khorne starter box, a box of hounds (will be war hounds as much better value) 

But I was looking at a LOW/Super heavy choices. Do I go Kytan or a Chaos knight?

 

In my local group we have agreed that all FW Khorne units (or units with a mark of Khorne) get the BFTBG rule which is how it should be anyway with this codex. 

 

All list ideas welcome. 

 

PS. I am not buying bikes as I don't like them. I have 3 un-built already and would rather use Bloodcrushers. 

[Slayer le Boucher]

Its a nice start.

 

From what i saw unfortunatly the Knight is marginally better then the Kytan, Cheaper, better survivability thanks to the shield, what the Kytan as for himself is his stats WS and Init 5, but the 100-150pts extra just for the two stats increase, i'm not sure its really worth it.

 

Shame about bikes, because they get the job done, you don't like bikes, or you just don't like the models?

 

If its the models i can perfectly understand, since i either use old Battle Chaos Knights for them or my converted Dark Eldar jetbikes since i also don't like the stock model;

 

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/59/7xyv.jpg

 

Now lots of people do use Crushers as bikes stand ins, while, and thats purely my opinion, they do look cool, they are too large i think, wich makes it easier targets, a bikes advantage is that its no more taller then a foot marine, its certainly a larger base print, but they are still easely hideable.

 

just my 2 cents.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Very nice IP! That's a nice theme he's got there. I just wish that Kytan was a bit better in game.... such a cool model.

 

BTW: Tell me your Knight stomped out those goofy Mechanicus dudes swarming you. lol

 

Failed my charge by 1.  Meant the Mechanicus where able to use that chart thing to boost them for combat.  Really great game vs Dave, he really great oppent & we are aim to try get grudge games that future Throne of Skulls & use it to help build a background/theme.

 

Also thanks Psycho for post up detail on the Bloodletter.  It a really cool army.  I belive he fought a World Eater army during the event as well, there a cool battle photo on Warhammer World facebook page.

[Teetengee]

As far as I can tell, Kytan's are only better than knights when being directly compared to them (as they win in a head to head comparison right? It's been a while since I did that math.).

[Prot]

@ the Bloodletters - I really do like them.... but on some one elses army. :) Seriously I love the effect I just think it's not for me. I feel the same way about NMM which I understand I'm in the minority on. I think it looks cool, but just not something I would want long term in my army. Probably just me, but I very much appreciate the effect he's created. It's really well done.

 

@Kytan - It's really obvious when you look at the costs and rules which came first. The Kytan has no business being so much more expensive than the Chaos Knight. It's a totally different animal, and I think our first instinct is to compare them at their points cost but even for sheer effectiveness I really don't think the Kytan is worth it.  That Gatling is very so-so in today's game for that cost. The limiting ability to charge something else if you don't wipe out your shooting target just screams for a stubber upgrade but they didn't model it that way.... so there's no option.  While the Cleaver of Khorne is cool, I'll take Foe Reaper in my Tau infused meta any day.

 

It's even the small things too like how on earth they determined KDK can't have Dirge Casters is beyond me, but the Knight is the only BFTBG model that I can think of that can get it.  Another small thing: Ghost Keel / Stealth Cadre is common, and for that reason I really just don't think the rear armour should be that low on a model of this class/level.

 

At the end of the day, you're  half a turn against a Surge from packing either of these up so it's a coin flip. (just my opinion after using them both)  ;)

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

 

KDK newbie here.. this is quite the thread you guys have going!

 

Venom, I love those Marines, they look great. I plan on having a marine heavy KDK Army more so for looks and personal satisfaction over competitiveness. I really feel like Chaos Marines in KDK lists are under valued and are much better units than they are given credit.

 

Thankyouverymuch! I dunno about their effectiveness on the tabletop, but I think they're way cooler than the lesser daemons. If berzerkers are one-dimensional, I'd say Khornate CSM are at least two-dimensional . What does that make bloodletters? Half a dimension?  Whoooooa....

 

 

 

Well at 80-85 pts, they can afford to be half dimensional. Sure they're like that pretty girl that doesn't have a lot on the ball, but if she breaks up with you, you don't really miss her do you?

 

The Zerkers don't do a heck of a lot more, but they're the full package and when they decide to leave you.... it's a painful breakup.

 

The Bloodletters are a nice, cheap gateway to some of the more interesting units in the Bloodhost, but at least they provide some function on a discount.

 

Zerkers maybe a little rough sure for the points.. but the Bloodletter CSM comparison is the one I'd argue in defense for the CSM. I know there is a lot of hate against spikey marines for their price and what they don't have in comparison to their loyalist brothers.. but still, I feel the versatility of CSM in our codex is undervalued. I feel like the CSM are worth it over Bloodletters (why pay for them when you can get them for free). 

[Khornestar]

I'd rather take CSM than Berzerkers, and even Bloodletters. I usually end up taking Cultists, though, just to save the points. :P

[Bloody Legionnaire]

^^I'd take both! My first game against KDK my TWC got SMASHED by a unit of cultist that were in cover. It was completely bad rolling on my part. Needless to say my opponent and myself were quite surprised.

[HeresyBeliever]

If I take a mayhem pack formation with my KDK Blood host I assume I would use the helbrute data from the KDK codex giving them the BFTBG? 

[Cheex]

If I take a mayhem pack formation with my KDK Blood host I assume I would use the helbrute data from the KDK codex giving them the BFTBG?

Not officially. The Helbrute formations specify that they are from the Faction 'Chaos Space Marines'.

 

You may be able to convince your opponent to let it happen, though.

[Prot]

Playing a lot of pure CSM I have to confess, I don't miss Helbrutes in KDK even a little bit.

 

On Cultists taking down TWC: Seriously? I play against TWC quite a bit, and almost anything is a losing situation for my KDK so I typically swarm TWC with chaff, hoping to out grind him. One time I did hit a chunky TWC squad with 10 dogs, 8 cultists, 2 Spawn and on top of it he had -poor- rolling. That's the only time I can think of in the last few months I've come out on top of that matchup.

 

I have a pending game vs new Wolves with their 'uber Possessed'. I don't feel too confident.

[Khornestar]

Playing a lot of pure CSM I have to confess, I don't miss Helbrutes in KDK even a little bit.

 

On Cultists taking down TWC: Seriously? I play against TWC quite a bit, and almost anything is a losing situation for my KDK so I typically swarm TWC with chaff, hoping to out grind him. One time I did hit a chunky TWC squad with 10 dogs, 8 cultists, 2 Spawn and on top of it he had -poor- rolling. That's the only time I can think of in the last few months I've come out on top of that matchup.

 

I have a pending game vs new Wolves with their 'uber Possessed'. I don't feel too confident.

Chainaxes FTW :P!