[HH1.0] The Sons of Barbarus : A Death Guard Tactica Thread

[Charlo]

I'd jump at the chance to take mortug in a blackshield force with allied DG for Grave Wardens :o

[Plaguecaster]

That's pretty cool I wonder if FW will update him with the option to include him in both death guard and Black Shields like that renegade world eater guy can.

[Charlo]

That's pretty cool I wonder if FW will update him with the option to include him in both death guard and Black Shields like that renegade world eater guy can.

 

Yeah that's my thinking, or he'll be a knight errant or something.

[Kilofix]

Interestingly Morturg's title in the red book is already Blackshield, formerly of the DG.

[Charlo]

He'd make such an incredible warlord for them with his trait and psychic power! I need it!

[Bosswoodfox]

I played my first Legion game and really enjoyed my playing Death Guard vs Word Bearers at 2500pts.  Good balance of offense and defense.  I didn't bring very much ranged AT, but that didn't become a problem.

 

Tactically, I should have left the Wardens in the LR until their disembark would have given them range to shoot.  Additionally should have detached Typhon from the Deathshroud on the turn that he sacrificed movement for his ChemBombardment.

 

List-wise, Heavy Bolter squad performed extremely well and I have another 5 to add.  I just purchased 2 more vindicators to add as well.  If I play 3000 I would add the vindicators and HBs and take out Calas Typhon, add Mortarion.

 

WB list:

Layak

Ghal Vorbax

2x 5 Ashen Circle

Tac squad in Land Raider

Mar Ghal dreadnought

Kheres Contemptor dread

20x Tac squad

DG list:

Typhon w/ 4Deathshroud in Land Raider

5xGrave Wardens in Land Raider

Vindicator

Kheres Contemptor Dread

20x Tac Marines

20x Tac Marines

5x Missile Launcher Squad

10x Heavy Bolter Squad

10x Assault Squad

Mission was short table edge deployment, basically kill points Plus 3 objective markers with random point values awarded if controlled at end game.

1st Turn:

WB all ran forward, summoned Horrors, shot a couple marines.

DG Land raiders and Assault Squad moved up, disembarked Grave Wardens, Heavy Bolters did work on Horrors

2nd:

WB continue forward, summoned Khorne Dogs, killed a Grave Warden, Bikers outflanked and shot contemptor but made crazy saves.

DG Grave Wardens and Heavy Bolters did work on Ghal Vorbax, Assault Squad meltabombs blew up Land Raider, Deathshroud wiped 1 Ashen Circle Squad, Tac Marines FotL wipe the outflanking Bikers with bolters in backfield

3rd:

WB March forward, summon Plague Bearers, Ashen Cirlce and tac marines kill 5/10 Assault Squad and force retreat, Khorne dogs wiped Heavy Bolter Squad, Mar Ghal punched Land Raider down to 1 hull point, Kheres Dread wiped Grave Wardens with shooting

DG Typhon & Death Shroud forego movement to call in Chem Bombardment to kill 3 marines, Land Raiders/Missile Launcher Squad/Vindicator widdle down enemy with shooting, Assualt Squad regroup

4th

WB Summon Bloodletters, Plague Bearers punch Land Raider down to 1 HP, Ashen Circle and Kheres Dread engage Assault Squad, Khorne Dogs engage Missile Laucher Squad, Tac Marines take objective

DG Finish Ghal Vorbax with Land Raider shooting, Tac marines wipe Plague Bearers with FotL, other Tac Marines wipe Bloodletters with FotL, Deathshroud join combat in center to assist Assault Squad against Kheres Dread and Tac Marines

5th thru 7th

WB Khorne Dogs wipe Missile Launchers Squad, Kheres Dread and Tac Marines wipe Assault squad in center combat, Mar Ghal Dread joins them, only Death Shroud remain with Calas Typhon trying to slow down the WB Dreads and marines

DG Fall back to objectives, Tac Marines wipe Khorne Dogs in combat, Land Raider/vindicator finish off WB Tac Marines, Mar Ghal and Kheres Dread finish Death Shroud in combat and advance forward.

Conclusion

Death Guard has 40 Tac Marines nearly untouched in backfield and 2 Land Raiders and Vindicator, holds 1 objective, wins on Kill Points. Word Bearers have Kheres Dread and Mar Ghal remaining, marching forward as game ends.

Was fortunate in deployment that WB had to cross the table long ways allowing me more shooting

Missile Launchers Squad not sure if they got their points back, maybe just poor rolling

40 Tac marines in the back field... They finished off anything that made it back there (plague beares, bloodletters, khorne dogs, outflanking bikers) and score objectives if necessary. They took almost no casualties and represent a lot of wounds rerolling their morale if necessary. I think they were worth it.

Assault Squad made its points back essentially with the Land Raider kill, then tying up a couple units in the center for a turn. They did well but especially against a more shooty army they need to stay in cover and exploit the "move through cover" rule with their jetpacks. Kind of a glass cannon, fun unit.

Land Raiders provided durable versatile shooting, necessary as transports, and probably worth their points as well.

Thanks for reading!

 

 

[Charlo]

It's nice to see some lists that aren't super crazy WAAC and super optimsied fighting it out for a change.

 

Nice mix of fluffy units there too with terms, lots of boots and a couple LR with Vindi.

 

Seems like you did rather well too - the HB squad is certainly interesting, did it really do that well?! Then again I suppose 30 shots a turn will add up...

 

Missiles are always so hit and miss for me, too weak to hurt big AV - too low rate of fire to really harm much MEQ...

 

I assume you ran the reaping? Did you put Rad Grenades on everything etc?

[Bosswoodfox]

It's nice to see some lists that aren't super crazy WAAC and super optimsied fighting it out for a change.

 

Nice mix of fluffy units there too with terms, lots of boots and a couple LR with Vindi.

 

Seems like you did rather well too - the HB squad is certainly interesting, did it really do that well?! Then again I suppose 30 shots a turn will add up...

 

Missiles are always so hit and miss for me, too weak to hurt big AV - too low rate of fire to really harm much MEQ...

 

I assume you ran the reaping? Did you put Rad Grenades on everything etc?

My first impression on Legion is that power gaming / WAAC is more difficult to do, and it therefore comes down more to counter-deploying table tactics.  

 

The HB may have done well in this game because of the demon targets.  My opponent successfully summoned 4 units of demons on the first 4 turns, which made great targets for the HBs to light up.  I think the HBs are a good take for a TAC list in the event that you run up against demons, or any bunch of bodies not wearing power armor really.  I targeted demons and easily wiped a unit of pink horrors 1st turn, 2nd turn fired at Ghal Vorbax which also was pretty good.  They have a 3+ save, and 2 wounds, T5, rage... really nasty and ultimately prevented them from making combat. Then the HB got charged by dogs which is may be expected with them due to having to be vulnerable in order to get good targets with their 36" range.

 

MLs not so great unfortunately since I've already built them. Maybe I'll make them into 40k havoks!  Like you said, not enough shots.

 

I did run the reaping and put Rad Grenades on everything except the HSS and it was awesome.  Move through cover was really helpful with the vehicles and the assault squad as well.  The Assault squad was a very fun unit to play, jumping forward then kamakaze into his Land Raider blowing it up.  They actually gave as good as they got when they got charged as well the following turn thanks to Rad.

 

Also, the Grave Wardens all had Chainfists and the Deathshroud had meltabombs so the idea is the 2 LRs with those terms go forward, plus the assault squad with meltabombs.  It has a good chance to punch a spartan/LR to get at what's inside and also prevent it from getting past them and into my back lines potentially.  The Grave Wardens took a lot of fire and made some decent saves but only got to shoot once and no combat.  Should have positioned them better, hoping they get to have some fun next game as they're assault 2 blast with poison 3+ shots did really good against the T5 Ghal Vorbax as well and any other high toughness model they will pretty much delete :)

Edited August 23, 2016 by Bosswoodfox

[Charlo]

Nice. A good write up. In the reaping I suppose I can see the space for a HB squad as it's a scoring and fairly cheap troop choice! Also rule of cool. I just feel there is a little overlap with normal bolters perhaps?

[Bosswoodfox]

I agree because they are both targeting infantry.  However, 20 Bolters cost about the same as 10 HB. The bolter marines benefit from double the wounds, rerolling morale, and bolters are great for the close targets.  The HB can reliably bring more shots to bear because all 10 are more likely to be in range than with the 20 man blob where some don't get to shoot or don't get to rapid fire.  The Str 5 is significant as well.  If you assume even at 24" you're bringing 30 Str5 vs 20 Str 4 which comes to about 13 wounds vs 6 wounds against marines and with those odds you can wipe 10-man demon squads or other horde stuff.  Then add in that you can reach out and fire the turn before that as well when the target was at 30-36".  I'd rather have 20 wounds that can reroll morale for area denial and objective holding, but the 10 HBs have a place as well.  At least because I already bought the kits haha.

 

I also kit the tac marines with rad grenades on the Sgt, while I give the HSS Sgts artificer armor and stand him out front.  The 20-man tac squad can swing more attacks in combat if necessary to better exploit the enemy toughness 3, and the artificer armor on the HSS Sgt is worth while if you can save a couple of those high-value wounds behind him.

 

Do you know if the enemy is -1T for purposes of overwatch as well? I didn't play this way but now that I'm reading the Rad Grenade rule it seems that way.

 

Man now I want to roll some dice again!  I am liking Legion more than 40k in it's current state I think, though I still love 40k.  It's just hard when you play Orks and Chaos lately haha.

[Charlo]

Great points. I may have to get a HB squad in for Rule of cool

 

And YES Rad grenades do affect Overwatch. Great combo with out Chem-Flames. Sniper veterans with heavy flamers each get D3 hits that re-roll that 2+ to wound with AP2 on a 6.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Charlo

[Gorgoff]

And now assume that your HSS got Volkite Culverines instead of Heavy Bolters, my friend.

CHOOOM CHOOOM POWER for the win.

[LtDan]

Choom for the win. Love my culverine squad!

[Charlo]

The problem with Volkite Culverins (and I can't believe I'm saying this...) is that they don't bring anything that the DG don't do marvelously well already.

 

We are kings of anti infantry firepower with Grave Wardens, Shred Flamers & Phosphex.

 

They bring a nice range to things of course, but are still rather expensive - for me the real struggle with DG is fitting all of our goodies in and getting a decent amount of anti AV as well!

[LtDan]

I get that. But rule of cool. Rad weapons. Range and heavy 4!! They out range most things. And a ten man squad minces through things.

[Cryptix]

My head fluff for my Death Guard personally is that when the Heresy broke, they stayed Loyalist and to atone for their sins they joined up with some Salamanders as the 13th Siege Assault Company. So, most of my models are Jump Packs or Jetbikes or Tacticals or Heavy Weapons and follows two design philosophies: either in motion sprinting across the sand or standing on ruins, and immobile bastion.

[1ncarnadine]

Saw this in the Salamanders thread and thought I'd throw this over here. We do seem to advise on the rad grenade/flamer combo a lot, after all.

 

 

P.45 3rd bullet point. "Once Overwatch is resolved, roll charge distance for the unit and, if it is in range, move it into contact with the enemy unit - this is sometimes called 'launching an assault'."

 

That's a clear definition of what "launching an assault" specifically means then, so no rad grenades on overwatch. Learn something new every day with this convoluted stupid game. 

 

Credit to Sanct and Terminus for this of course. Sad news for The Reaping! We were already a pretty average Legion and the rad grenade/chem flamer synergy seemed intentional, but I guess not.

[Charlo]

I have to disagree perhaps...

 

The rules for Rad Grenades say:

 

"these are special grenades that count neither as assault or defensive grenades, but have their own unique effect. During a turn in which a unit equipped with rad grenades launches an assault, or is themselves assaulted, the enemy unit(s) suffer a -1 penalty to their Toughness until the end of the Assault phase. Note: this does affect the victims’ instant death thresholds."

 

 

We are more looking at the "is themselves assaulted", which surely is when you charge them as you are then assaulting them at that point?

[LtDan]

Id agree with charlo on this one

[Charlo]

I mean, in the depths of things I'm happy to be wrong as shredding overwatch flamers will still be awesome.

[1ncarnadine]

I mean, in the depths of things I'm happy to be wrong as shredding overwatch flamers will still be awesome.

This where I'm at in the stages of grief: acceptance. I was all the rest until I started rolling some dice and crunching numbers, and realized shred alone is still very mean. I never realized how little the rad grenade overwatch bonus mattered. Even if rad grenades do work for overwatch, I might stop paying for them with heavy flamer units at least.

[Charlo]

Oh it's still worth it, especially now you can take extra combat weapons and then get an extra attack that wounds on 3+

[Cryptix]

So, I got some HH models off my uncle (2 15 man tactical squads, 2 10 man Tactical squads, 2 Rhinos, and a Chaplain in Artificer Armor) as well as 2 boxes of betrayal at Calth. Following our guys' advice, I decided to go with Death Guard, led by the Death Guard Knight Errant Gregor Falezar and the Praetor Brutus Szyion. AKA, this is my current model list (painted and unpainted)

 

2 Praetors

1 Knight Errant/Praetor in Artificer Armor

2 Centurions

1 Chaplain

~100 Tacs/Veteran Tacs

10 Terminators (With the bits to turn any number of them into Deathshroud or Grave Wardens)

2 Contemptors

3 Rhinos (1 more on the way)

 

My question is, where should I expand from here. I know right now I'm not getting any more Tacticals or HQs, but I could use some flyers, tanks, etc.

[Terminus]

I have to disagree perhaps...

 

The rules for Rad Grenades say:

 

"these are special grenades that count neither as assault or defensive grenades, but have their own unique effect. During a turn in which a unit equipped with rad grenades launches an assault, or is themselves assaulted, the enemy unit(s) suffer a -1 penalty to their Toughness until the end of the Assault phase. Note: this does affect the victims’ instant death thresholds."

 

We are more looking at the "is themselves assaulted", which surely is when you charge them as you are then assaulting them at that point?

You only "assault" once you're rolling dice for distance, as per the steps of the resolution. Overwatch takes place before that.

[Bosswoodfox]

I can definitely see it both ways, as with many GW rules.  

 

It comes down to a question of "has the unit been assaulted when the charge is declared, or when the 'assault is launched' after overwatch and the charge distance rolled."

 

I guess I could lean towards the latter, and say rad does not affect overwatch.  However, a d6 to decide would not be out of the question.