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[Olis]

  On 5/20/2015 at 10:53 AM, Ishagu said:

Are there any changes to the rules or points of the Deredeo Dreadnought and the Xiphon Interceptor?

 

I didn't see the previous rules to them both but if you can find me the previous versions, I may be able to tell.

 

  On 5/20/2015 at 10:53 AM, Ishagu said:

Also, can an Apothecary join a unit of Suzerains?

 

Given the writing of the Apothecarion Detachment entry in the Crusade Army List (which tells you which squads can take it), it states that Legion specific units that can take them will say so in their own entry. The Suzerains do not have this caveat. So, strictly speaking, no they cannot. However, I get the sneaking suspicion that this might be just a case of the writers forgetting to add in the caveat (as no other unit in the book has the caveat either). It is possible that this might get FAQ'd at some point.

[Moonstalker]

  On 5/20/2015 at 11:27 AM, Olis said:

 

  On 5/20/2015 at 10:53 AM, Ishagu said:

Are there any changes to the rules or points of the Deredeo Dreadnought and the Xiphon Interceptor?

 

I didn't see the previous rules to them both but if you can find me the previous versions, I may be able to tell.

 

  On 5/20/2015 at 10:53 AM, Ishagu said:

Also, can an Apothecary join a unit of Suzerains?

 

Given the writing of the Apothecarion Detachment entry in the Crusade Army List (which tells you which squads can take it), it states that Legion specific units that can take them will say so in their own entry. The Suzerains do not have this caveat. So, strictly speaking, no they cannot. However, I get the sneaking suspicion that this might be just a case of the writers forgetting to add in the caveat (as no other unit in the book has the caveat either). It is possible that this might get FAQ'd at some point.

 

 

Xiphon

Deredeo

[Balthamal]

They're both identical except the Daeredo has the option to take a piece of equipment that boosts it's invul save by +1

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

So Lorgar now has Divination? Sweet. Their was only 1 good power on telepathy anyway. And Malefic. Well guys, I know everyone is excited about Ultras, but I think the real winner here is the Word Bearers. Just like Calth.

[Balthamal]

Divination is more fluffy for him imo and let's face it there's nothing in divination that will come close to being as broken as Lorgar and invisible Gal Vorbak. I watched it happen at Warhammer World last year and something like 140 shots caused a single wound.

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

  On 5/20/2015 at 12:27 PM, Balthamal said:

Divination is more fluffy for him imo and let's face it there's nothing in divination that will come close to being as broken as Lorgar and invisible Gal Vorbak. I watched it happen at Warhammer World last year and something like 140 shots caused a single wound.

Invisible Gal Vorbak that move 12" is nice, but the toolbox buffs and summoning powers make Lorgsr incredibly versatile. Want Lorgar killing other primarchs? Give him Precognition. Want a bunch of buffs to your units? Give him one of any of the 4 buffing powers. Want him to summon stuff? Give him all the good powers in Malefic. And then move the models behind cover with Levitation. Or move him and his unit with it. I'm fine with this trade.

[Olis]

  On 5/20/2015 at 11:50 AM, kitwulfen said:

 

  On 5/20/2015 at 11:27 AM, Olis said:

 

  On 5/20/2015 at 10:53 AM, Ishagu said:

Are there any changes to the rules or points of the Deredeo Dreadnought and the Xiphon Interceptor?

 

I didn't see the previous rules to them both but if you can find me the previous versions, I may be able to tell.

 

  On 5/20/2015 at 10:53 AM, Ishagu said:

Also, can an Apothecary join a unit of Suzerains?

 

Given the writing of the Apothecarion Detachment entry in the Crusade Army List (which tells you which squads can take it), it states that Legion specific units that can take them will say so in their own entry. The Suzerains do not have this caveat. So, strictly speaking, no they cannot. However, I get the sneaking suspicion that this might be just a case of the writers forgetting to add in the caveat (as no other unit in the book has the caveat either). It is possible that this might get FAQ'd at some point.

 

 

Xiphon

Deredeo

 

As Balthamal says, they're identical except the Deredeo. The Deredeo itself can take an Atomantic Pavaise, which among other things improves it's invun by +1 against shooting attacks.

[Balthamal]

Lorgar can't take Malefic powers, no psykers at all apart from Zardu Layak can take them. Lorgar is restricted to Divination or Telekinesis only 

[Moonstalker]

 

  Quote

As Balthamal says, they're identical except the Deredeo. The Deredeo itself can take an Atomantic Pavaise, which among other things improves it's invun by +1 against shooting attacks.

 

The Pavaise was present in an earlier version of the Deredeo digital rules, but for some reason was removed.  And then was apparently added back into the book.

[Ishagu]

  On 5/20/2015 at 12:53 PM, Balthamal said:

Lorgar can't take Malefic powers, no psykers at all apart from Zardu Layak can take them. Lorgar is restricted to Divination or Telekinesis only

That is still very useful. Divination has some great boosts for shooting/combat and survivability.

[Balthamal]

  On 5/20/2015 at 1:23 PM, Ishagu said:

 

  On 5/20/2015 at 12:53 PM, Balthamal said:

Lorgar can't take Malefic powers, no psykers at all apart from Zardu Layak can take them. Lorgar is restricted to Divination or Telekinesis only

That is still very useful. Divination has some great boosts for shooting/combat and survivability.

 

 

Agreed I think there's some outstanding potential in there. It's just not quite as game breaking as invisibility

[depthcharge12]

What is it exactly that a Damocles rhino does? Is it just +1 or -1 to reserves?

 

And isn't it named after a campaign that is 9,000 years in the future? @_@

[BFeeder]

  On 5/20/2015 at 12:53 PM, Balthamal said:

Lorgar can't take Malefic powers, no psykers at all apart from Zardu Layak can take them. Lorgar is restricted to Divination or Telekinesis only 

 

The updates to the AoD ruleset says that XVII Librarians can take Malefic powers too.

 

  On 5/20/2015 at 1:46 PM, depthcharge12 said:

What is it exactly that a Damocles rhino does? Is it just +1 or -1 to reserves?

 

And isn't it named after a campaign that is 9,000 years in the future? @_@

 

Friendly units that deepstrike within 24" of it don't scatter and it's got a single shot orbital strike ability.

[depthcharge12]

  On 5/20/2015 at 1:50 PM, BFeeder said:

 

  On 5/20/2015 at 12:53 PM, Balthamal said:

 

Lorgar can't take Malefic powers, no psykers at all apart from Zardu Layak can take them. Lorgar is restricted to Divination or Telekinesis only

The updates to the AoD ruleset says that XVII Librarians can take Malefic powers too.

  On 5/20/2015 at 1:46 PM, depthcharge12 said:

What is it exactly that a Damocles rhino does? Is it just +1 or -1 to reserves?

 

And isn't it named after a campaign that is 9,000 years in the future? @_@

Friendly units that deepstrike within 24" of it don't scatter and it's got a single shot orbital strike ability.

That's pretty nice :) is it like twice the point cost of a regular rhino I assume?

 

Turn one with it, drop an orbital bombardment.

 

Turn two, move it up 12", use the +1 to reserves, and deep strike a unit of your choosing without scatter right in the enemy's face.

 

I like it. I like it a lot. Sounds like something a teleporting DA legion terminator heavy list would need....

[BFeeder]

  On 5/20/2015 at 1:57 PM, depthcharge12 said:

That's pretty nice is it like twice the point cost of a regular rhino I assume?

It's just shy of 3x the points cost, so it's not cheap!

I forgot to add; enemies suffer a -1 to the deep strike mishap roll when the Damocles is in play.

I'm wondering if having two of them in a XIII list would be legal, since you could technically have one as a non compulsory HQ and another as a transport for a Master of Signal. It probably wouldn't be worth it unless their modifiers stacked though.

[Reyner]

That is perfectly legal - it says that in the entry for it :) Only legal for XIII Legion I think.

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

  On 5/20/2015 at 12:53 PM, Balthamal said:

Lorgar can't take Malefic powers, no psykers at all apart from Zardu Layak can take them. Lorgar is restricted to Divination or Telekinesis only

Ohh ok. Someone else said he could. And by the way, what's the deal with layak? What does he do?

[norngahl]

The forcefield of a deredeo, how much is it more or less than the deredeos rocket launcher? Does ist affect nearby units granting them a 6+ or better if inv vs shooting or something?

 

The damocles rhino can be taken by any legion? Is it a upgrade for a char like a Command squad (can i stick a lone praetor in it?) Or does it take up an own foc slot while not compulsory?

 

Thanks! :)

[1ncarnadine]

  On 5/20/2015 at 2:51 PM, Prodigal Son of Magnus said:

 

  On 5/20/2015 at 12:53 PM, Balthamal said:

Lorgar can't take Malefic powers, no psykers at all apart from Zardu Layak can take them. Lorgar is restricted to Divination or Telekinesis only

Ohh ok. Someone else said he could. And by the way, what's the deal with layak? What does he do?

 

 

  Quote

 daemonic dark apostle good stats, wargear etc, makes ashen circle troops and lets them buy dark challenging, has a two man 'super gal vorbak' bodyguard 

he has Motl and counts as a diabolist, units with dark challening gain +1 to the roll if he's in the army

he's also a mastery level 2 pysker, with a fancy force stave which can be fired as a heavy flamer once per game.

 

From Garro on h30k. It's potentially nasty if you combine him with the Damocles Rhino, as you then can get dark channeling Ashen Circle with pin-point drops.

 

Dark Channeling goes a long way towards helping the Ashen Circle not be so overcosted too. All of the options you can roll help the unit immensely, and at 2.5 pts per marine if you're running a full 10-man unit. Rolling Daemon in particular, as it's almost like they paid 2.5 pts each for combat shields.

[Kol Saresk]

Are Ashen Circle still "No Ic can join"?

[Olis]

  On 5/20/2015 at 3:31 PM, Kol Saresk said:

Are Ashen Circle still "No Ic can join"?

 

Yes. It's under the rule Bitter Duty in their entry.

[Kol Saresk]

Bleh. I was hoping that might have changed with the ability to take them as troops.

[Moonstalker]

Can someone clarify whether the reroll 1's thing works only with units that have LA:UM, or for all units in an LA:UM detachment.  For instance, if a Rhino fires its combibolter at a unit, will the marines it was carrying be able to claim the reroll?

[Olis]

  On 5/20/2015 at 4:07 PM, kitwulfen said:

Can someone clarify whether the reroll 1's thing works only with units that have LA:UM, or for all units in an LA:UM detachment.  For instance, if a Rhino fires its combibolter at a unit, will the marines it was carrying be able to claim the reroll?

 

The units this rule does not affect are super-heavies, flyers, servo-automata and battle-automata of any kind. It only affects units in the same detachment, drawn from the Space Marine Legion Crusade Army List, which theoretically covers the Rhino.

 

However, I'm not entirely sure this can definitely be a yes. Rhinos are not subject to the Legiones Astartes special rule (they only come with the Repair special rule) which possibly means the Rhino itself cannot take advantage of this. I suspect this will need FAQing. 

[Moonstalker]

Cool, thanks.  It sounds to me like it works how I hoped (similar to the VI legion's Night Vision rule, or the VII legion's Promethean Gift, extending an effect to non-LA units).

 

The Battle-Automata exception is interesting.  That's to override the Praevian's special rule?