CommodusXIII Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Depends on how you define turn. Technically, that's up to 8 rerolls per game turn if you have occassion to use them. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakuth Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I get why people aren't thrilled by Sigismund's pose. However, when I see it, all I can picture is this scene from Gladiator. Sorry for the terrible screenshot quality, it was the only one I could find! So in my mind, he's not yielding ground - he's a split-second away from stabbing someone in the mouth. I agree. It looks to me a bit like he's side-stepped or taking a backwards step to avoid a strike, and is about to lunge forwards. Overall, I like the pose, but am 50/50 on the head. Need to see it closer up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I got nothin' on that one. Dude needs hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Are you people seriously trying to justify Guilliman getting potentially 4 rerolls per turn? Seriously? And in the same breath, dismiss any opinion of negativity towards the Ultramarines. WLK Its an extremely WAAC train of thought, which to me is the very antithesis of 30K. There's not much negative to say about the Ultramarine rules. They're definitely not weak, they're not the scariest either. They balance good rules with high cost. But trying to pull the "4 rerolls per turn" garbage is just as cheesy and annoying as Invisible Lorgar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Are you people seriously trying to justify Guilliman getting potentially 4 rerolls per turn? Seriously?And in the same breath, dismiss any opinion of negativity towards the Ultramarines.WLK Its an extremely WAAC train of thought, which to me is the very antithesis of 30K. There's not much negative to say about the Ultramarine rules. They're definitely not weak, they're not the scariest either. They balance good rules with high cost. But trying to pull the "4 rerolls per turn" garbage is just as cheesy and annoying as Invisible Lorgar.Would you rather have Invisible Lorgar or "I'm almost as good at making my points back as Nagash but I can hide in a unit" Lorgar. I can't wait to take advantage of his Malefic, especially now that I get to pick powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazzy Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 It hardly seems WAAC to me. I took it to read as once per phase, (as in movement , psychic, etc.) It even says "particular phase". To me that's just RAI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackoption Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 It hardly seems WAAC to me. I took it to read as once per phase, (as in movement , psychic, etc.) It even says "particular phase". To me that's just RAI. This is my thoughts as well. I am not trying to min-max or be cheesy. Guilliman has a 4++ invul that allows for 1 re-roll for a failed save per phase. It is a nice bonus, but it still pales to having a 3++ invul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TemujinZero Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I also read it as a re-roll every phase. It hadn't even occurred to me that there could be another way to read it. I do think it's way more powerful than it might seem, and it is straight up more powerful than a 3++ until you start losing more than one wound a phase, which is extremely difficult to achieve in practice. I will never play the traitorous Ultramarines, so unless you want to accuse me of LAAC thinking, you could just chalk it up to an honest difference of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Are you people seriously trying to justify Guilliman getting potentially 4 rerolls per turn? Seriously?And in the same breath, dismiss any opinion of negativity towards the Ultramarines. WLK Its an extremely WAAC train of thought, which to me is the very antithesis of 30K. There's not much negative to say about the Ultramarine rules. They're definitely not weak, they're not the scariest either. They balance good rules with high cost. But trying to pull the "4 rerolls per turn" garbage is just as cheesy and annoying as Invisible Lorgar. I don't know any other way to read it. "Phase" means a very specific thing in 30/40k, and it says one per phase. I can concede that the wording is a little strange and awkward (the usual for Forgeworld), and it may yet get FAQ'd, but I don't see how you can get around the use of 'phase' there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The rules are very clear on this matter. He can re-roll the first failed invul save he has to make in a movement, psychic, shooting and assault phase, and it repeats each turn. He could be hit by a vector strike/interceptor in the movement phase, the rest are pretty obvious. Why are people so outraged? Sounding like the typical Ultramarines hate. There are far more cheesy abilities Lorgar can spam for example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stofficus Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 On Sigismund's pose, I do agree with the earlier comment that applying real-world sword techniques is not a valid approach. As someone who is a saber duelist, all my guards, strikes, counter-strikes and maneuvers are built with several underlying principles - neither me nor my opponent is armoured, my objective is to slash at the face, sides or arms, not to stab or cleave and that the speed of combat is quite high. When facing off against someone using a different weapon - a rapier, longsword, heck, I've even gone against a quarterstaff once or twice and the rules become different, it's much more chaotic and unpredictable as every weapon, and school of training within that weapon family can vary significantly. The rules for armoured swordplay is also a further variable; honest military longsword fighting is about using one's blade as a can opener, for lack of a better word. Armour can deflect most blows we use in conventional fencing with contemptous ease, requiring one strike at and pry at joins and weak points. Given reduced ability to maneuver in heavy armour, plate in particular and the whole affair becomes a lot less about proper finesse and footwork and more about raw brutality and what a too-sensitive sport fencer would call "cheating." Kicks, punches, tackles, double-teaming an opponent, bashes, pommel strikes, all manner of things designed to exhaust, abuse and frustrate the opponent. Add in powered armour and "power-fields" and the whole dynamic changes again - I'd expect a more finesse-based approach than medieval swordplay, but we're still dealing with "freaking huge guys" in "freaking huge armour" about 28,000 years in the future, in 30k's case; how many of you imagine the fencing manuals of Morozzo or the I-44 technique have endured? So much of swordplay is imagination, practice and then codifying what seems to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 This verbal volleyball match about Guilliman's save has gone on long enough. Take it to a rules thread if you want to keep going, but it stops in this thread right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Sooo... anyone got a peek at Telemechrus' ruiles for us? Pretty please? Some more info on those jump pack guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I'll post in a bit, looks a bit conspicuous leafing through it in the office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Sneak peak for Telemachrus - he costs more than a Land Raider Phobos. By a meltabomb. One of his fancy tricks is forcing the enemy to reroll the dice for the penetration result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I'll post in a bit, looks a bit conspicuous leafing through it in the office Hahaha, that's a funny image. They're not exactly subtle books are they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I have a quick question for someone with Tempest (FW packed Betrayal instead of Tempest into my mate's bag so I'm having to wait till that's sorted!)... Are there any new weapons for the Deredeo or is it just Anvillus Autocannons & Hellfire Cannonade? Also, do you have to take a secondary system or is it optional like in the experimental rules? (ie 'may take' rather than 'must take'.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Only the autocannons or the plasmas nothing else unfortunately :( I think the missile launcher and shield thing are optional too. Not got the book on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLats_McGee Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 So... Anyone want to tell me what the Smurfs were like before they met Guilliman? I've always been curious about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 So... Anyone want to tell me what the Smurfs were like before they met Guilliman? I've always been curious about that. An undisciplined Rable, just like all the other Legions :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Regarding the shooting buffs, is it +1S or rerolls ? If it's +1 strength, it's actually very amazing, S9 Missile Launchers, S10 Lascannons... It makes an infantry heavy army very scary against high armour armies ! I'm also very curious about the fluff for the ROW, could someone do a brief description of its origins ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Ok Hnoured Telemechrus WS 6 A 3 HP 4 DCCW + Kheres D3 HoW on the charge Units within 12" get +1 combat score and +1 to sweeping Re-rolls all penetrating results on both vehicle and destroyer tables Hatred - Traitor Legions Locutarus Storm Squad Standard profile but with Artificer Armour Shoot twice with pistols when deepstriking Re-roll scatter when deepstriking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Thanks. Anything on the Suzerains? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 That Contemptor sounds brilliant! What weapon comes with the CC weapon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Combi bolter that's all but he's got enough to get the job done I'd say The Invictarii Suzerains are basically a command squad with boarding shields and the signature Axes. They're Elite or HQ, provide +1LD to any ultramarine units within 12" and are scoring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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