Bukimimaru Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Looks like this whole "we are going to be made completly redundant by the new SM dex" might have been a bit of a knee-jerk panic reaction. If the above is anything to go by we dont have to worry too much. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Looks like this whole "we are going to be made completly redundant by the new SM dex" might have been a bit of a knee-jerk panic reaction. If the above is anything to go by we dont have to worry too much. Indeed, and it drives me around the bend. Take the C:SM rumours thread - the amount of complaints because the RAS aren't Primarch level for the cost of an Imperial Guardsman is frankly ludicrous (yes I'm exaggerating, but you get my point). We don't even know what the Codex is like yet, nor how they can be buffed! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rezin70 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I like that our assault squads are still far more useful. Although it would be nice to take a razorback as a DT, I'm over it. I'll just get the free rhino, give it to a tac squad or DC, and buy a razorback and give it to the assault squad. Kinda silly I know but it's a way if I want my yellow helmets in a razorback.We can exhale guys lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 It is very silly how we can't get a razor back but vanilla can. Very silly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 It is very silly how we can't get a razor back but vanilla can. Very silly. Depends. If they get fast attack drop pods as well then yeah it pretty silly. Otherwise yeah. On the other hand our assault marines are the best with their melta and built in furious charge so I'm not really complaining. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I like that our assault squads are still far more useful. Although it would be nice to take a razorback as a DT, I'm over it. I'll just get the free rhino, give it to a tac squad or DC, and buy a razorback and give it to the assault squad. Kinda silly I know but it's a way if I want my yellow helmets in a razorback.Too bad the ASM cannot start the game in the DT Razorback from the Tacs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I hope Raven Guard lose their ability to make jp troops worthwhile. Rude. RG should be perfectly good at jump packs. Tbqh it'd be great if the new 'dex balances things out so that RG assault squads are useful in a different way. Flavour and fluff and all that. Of course, I'm glad BA retained exclusivity when it comes to meltas in assault squads... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I love it. It's remarkably fluff even if the majority of use field RAS as Meltacide rather than via Jump Packs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I hope Raven Guard lose their ability to make jp troops worthwhile. Rude. RG should be perfectly good at jump packs. Tbqh it'd be great if the new 'dex balances things out so that RG assault squads are useful in a different way. Flavour and fluff and all that. Of course, I'm glad BA retained exclusivity when it comes to meltas in assault squads... Fair enough, I'd say. A different ability for RG, yes. Infiltrating and charging on the first turn allowed, I'd be cool with it. Imagine the power of our JP units if they could use their JPs in the movement and the assault phase! The glory of the 5th edition codex would almost be in reach. I'm not saying make RG utter rubbish. A different ability for their jumpers would be closer to the background, though. If our marines are supposed to be "naturally gifted" using their jump packs, I can't see why we shouldn't be able to use them in two phases. Assault in these times is hard enough as it is, even with our S and Init boni. Nothing game-breaking in giving our assault units more reach. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Looks like this whole "we are going to be made completly redundant by the new SM dex" might have been a bit of a knee-jerk panic reaction. If the above is anything to go by we dont have to worry too much. I'm sad because I had a slim hope that GW finally had understood how messed up the marine codex is. They just made assault marines worse, that's quite a feat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 How? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 They no longer get the rebate when exchanging their packs for a transport. Inexpensive flame pods was just about the only thing they were good for in a regular marine army and that build just got a price bump + extra slots. If assault marines are anything to go by then none of the core issues marines have (overpriced options, useless units) are going to get fixed in this codex. Bad news for all power armor enthusiasts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 They no longer get the rebate when exchanging their packs for a transport. Inexpensive flame pods was just about the only thing they were good for in a regular marine army and that build just got a price bump + extra slots. If assault marines are anything to go by then none of the core issues marines have (overpriced options, useless units) are going to get fixed in this codex. Bad news for all power armor enthusiasts. Not necessarily the case, but the cracks will likely be papered over via Formations and/or Chapter Tactics/Doctrines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Not necessarily the case, but the cracks will likely be papered over via Formations and/or Chapter Tactics/Doctrines. But then you are locked into using (the mostly terrible) formations with their arbitrary restrictions and bonuses. If the unit is terrible it will take some amazing bonuses to make them playable. Just look at our vanguard with free power weapons. A 300 pt 'rebate' for 20 models sill isn't enough to make VVs good and that's telling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Not necessarily the case, but the cracks will likely be papered over via Formations and/or Chapter Tactics/Doctrines. But then you are locked into using (the mostly terrible) formations with their arbitrary restrictions and bonuses. If the unit is terrible it will take some amazing bonuses to make them playable. Just look at our vanguard with free power weapons. A 300 pt 'rebate' for 20 models sill isn't enough to make VVs good and that's telling. I'd disagree there, VV are quite strong, especially if you give them those free weapons and some storm shields! Our current formations are pretty bland and bad, yeah, they're designed for the campaign really... But if we get access to the new vanilla ones that could be as effective as the Eldar ones in both requirements and rules (three squads of Aspect warriors for a buff? How about 3 tacticals/ RAS/ Devs? 1 of each) then hopefully it won't be as doom and gloom as you say. If not, well, who else has a 36" threat range Vindicator, Meltacide, DC, easy FNP and the cooooooolest Psychic discipline? Not Xenos ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4071640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Well, apparently the leaked ASM rules are pretty much the same as BA ASM so I don't think there is much reason to panic about anything.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4072486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Not necessarily the case, but the cracks will likely be papered over via Formations and/or Chapter Tactics/Doctrines. But then you are locked into using (the mostly terrible) formations with their arbitrary restrictions and bonuses. If the unit is terrible it will take some amazing bonuses to make them playable. Just look at our vanguard with free power weapons. A 300 pt 'rebate' for 20 models sill isn't enough to make VVs good and that's telling. Much like the rest of the rules, formations/detachments are horribly incosistant. They can be super fluffy and not really work on the table top outside of narative games. Or they can be stupidy broken and give you things like re-rollable invulnerable saves for free. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4072689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Just had a thought: in Apocalypse we're entitled to use the Space Marines Formations where we have the appropriate units in our codex. So there is precedence and thus, we may be permitted to use some of their new stuff. Fingers crossed I guess. Of course it means I'm going to have a whole host of reviews to write but c'est la vie. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4072796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 That would be mega awesome. Aside from Tyranids, we would have more formations / dataslates and options available to us than any other army. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4072811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Well, apparently the leaked ASM rules are pretty much the same as BA ASM so I don't think there is much reason to panic about anything.. I'm not seeing it: BA can have melta guns and inferno pistols, vanilla can't. BA can have plasma guns, vanilla can't. Vanilla gets Eviscerators, BA don't. BA Sgts, can take two pistols, vanilla can't. BA are priced with jump packs, vanilla without. BA can take drop pods or rhinos as DTs for free, vanilla has to pay. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4072822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Has that been confirmed for the Sergeants? Only we haven't seen their wargear options yet?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4072825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 From Sinsigel on Warseer: "I apologise if I'm uploading info that has already been posted. FLGS nearby started showing SM codex for preview. I simply skimmed through the codex so there will be many gaps and slightly inaccurate parts. Points costs will not be posted. Chapter Tactics still remain, although every one of them has been 'buffed'. White Scars for example all get hit & run whether the model has bulky rule or not. Combat Doctrines only gives to-hit rolls. Devastators do not have Slow and Purposeful. They do get a wargear allowing the squad to re-roll failed to hits for a single shooting phase. Tactical squad can carry grav cannon & amp, although it's almost twice as expensive as lascannon. Vanguards get bonus to charge distance, while Ironclad & Venerable dreadnoughts get 4 attacks minimum. Assault centurions' siege drill now strikes at S10 Legion of the Damned is still in the codex, and it's DS ability has been slightly buffed. Most vehicles, if taken in squadron of three, gain significant buff. Multiple Stalkers(now with interceptor) can ignore cover, where as three vindicators can instead fire a single shot with apocalyptic blast which ignores cover. That's all I can recall with any degree of clarity. P.S. Is there any way to delete the post? I fear I might be infringing any form of copyright." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4072891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 So the only thing the BA are really missing out on is vehicle squadrons? Meh, I can live with that. As nice as it would be do be able to take squads of preds and vindis, I mostly use Scouts as troops so I could always take a few small detachments if I really wanted that many tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4072937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 That (which is huge btw) and a few other bits of wargear trickery (such as the Devastator one). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4072946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Okay, interceptor AAA squadron sounds tasty. Chapter tactics getting buffs was expected. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308340-wishful-thinking-new-sm-dex/page/4/#findComment-4072983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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