Dark Angels rumors. update: Codex leaks, pg 28

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I actually like the old cover better, but this one is not half-bad either. I'm still undecided if I get the LE or not.

[Gillyfish]

I agree - I thought the old cover was more dynamic, but this one isn't bad at all. I'll be interested to see what the new book brings. I may even finally get round to getting a 7th ed rulebook.

[Master Avoghai]

But hey, only if it is true. It seems a bit too strong as far as regular morale shenanigans go. It will probably roll 3D6 and discard the lowest

Well after all it's just the return of weaken resolve ;)

 

I don't find it THAT strong, you have to be within 9" from enemy units to use it... I wonder if it will work on deamon instability though :rolleyes:

 

Seems we get a boost at ocerwatch when we play a battle half company... It actually confirms the leaks I've had, meaning the rest may be true too .. ;)

[Isiah]

I guess it's all about seeing these rumoured buffs to overwatch, DW assaulting (possibly being able to assault on turn of arrival) and morale items in conjunction with one another rather than dissecting individually.

 

In that light it all sounds rather promising.

 

But at the mo these are all informed speculations so I remain on overwatch until more comes to light :)

 

Cheers

I

[Chaplain Lucifer]

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=215417&d=1434531308

From Warseer.

Pretty much mimics SM Codex with DA twist. Not bad.

Notice the inclusion of attack bike squads... yes. attack bike squads!!! :D

[Zectz]

Interesting to note that DA's Demi company has the option for a veteran squad when vanilla SM doesn't - they have to take an auxiliary choice with 3+ Squads of elites in their 1st company task force. So you can just have a single drop pod unit for alpha strike/suicide combi Melta/Plasma without having to dish out the points for 3+ units.

 

But if you used to run more than 1 unit of veterans...

[Frater Cornelius]

Wow, this is so much better than the Gladius. The Formations are not only useful, but actually playable due to having a rather low entry cost. It also allows you to play a mono-DW force by taking the DW Formation on its own. That is serious business. Also, an RW + GW force also seems to be possible with Demi + RW elements + Sammael. I suppose pure RW will for a pure CAD, if Sammael still makes them Troops.

 

Much better than the Gladius. Very well done!

 

Edit: RW + GW and DW + GW as well as GW + RW are all possible with that setup. Holy Emperor, this fills me with excitement and ZEAL. THE CRUSADE MARCHES ON!

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Sorry to burst you're bubble, but Zeal and crusade is downstairs in the BT forum. :P

[Guest]

Lets face it Lucifer we do Zeal better than the bastard sons of Dorn :)

[Saphrael]

Thanks for the share Lucifer, great to get more info.

 

Have to completely disagree with this being better than the Gladius though. The minimum buy in is higher for most units and as a result it's less flexible. Let me give some examples:

 

• No option to swap out an assault squad for an Land Speeder/Attack Bike in the Demi company (assault are more expensive)
• No option to take a unit other than Devastators in the Demi Company (less flexible than Gladius)
• No option to take more than one unit of company veterans (less flexible than Gladius)
• Minimum buy in of two squads and an HQ if you want to include Deathwing (less flexible than Gladius and more expensive that First Company Task Force)
• Minimum buy in of a Ravenwing squad includes a Lans Speeder (more expensive that Gladius bike options)
• No way to include Ravenwing Knights (not really comparable to Gladius, but still a big bummer)
• If Deathwing can't take Land Raiders as dedicated transports this formation will be really short on them (similar to Gladius)

Now Gladius should be more flexible that us and all of the above restrictions make sense per our chapter organisation and I love the fluffiness of it, but it's certainly not significantly better than the Gladius.

 

Some other notes:

• The Deathwin Redemption Force allows you to field a Company Master (presumably in TDA) instead of Belial. Finally our on TDA Captains!
• We've kept Interrogator Chaplains, presumably as a beefed Chaplain. Here's hoping they have more than an extra W and A
• I anticiapte we'll get a dedicated Ravenwing formation and a dedicated Deathwing formation that will allow for pure Wing lists, but my tri-wing hopes have been dashed by this formation

A lot of this will hinge on the effectiveness of the buffs received for running a Lion's Blade Strike Force, but the rumours so far haven't been encouraging. I'll continue to wait with baited breath...

[Interrogator Stobz]

Not sure hor Tri-wing is neutered, but a bummer for me is the compulsory techie and LR for each tank sqn.

[GreyCrow]

I don't see how the Lion's Blade is much better than the Gladius. Even if the formations have a lower buy in cost, the demi co itself is much less flexible and some formations still feel a tad fragile (Ravenwing Support Squadron, I do so hope that they fix the Vengeance ! ). It looks good however

Will be following this release with great anticipation The way this is presented does look like it's going to fit all the SM units that I'll never get to field in my SM Gladius and make a mean DA force :D

[Frater Cornelius]

I am not saying that this one is optimal, I am saying that it is superior to the Gladius simply by virtue of having a lower buy in cost simply by having to buy less units.

But I agree that the Detachment bonus is what will decide what kind of detachments we will play. For me it has always been the CAD. However, if the RW + GW will work well in the Lion's Blade, then I will consider it.

 

Also, @ Lucy - You are doing it wrong ;)

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I wouldn't sweet it much at this point. We have to see what we have for units and whatnot to see if the Demi is worthwile. If anything it offers us a different approach to list making.

 

PS; I am not doing it wrong. Only Templars bother to highlight what shouldn't need highlight. :)

[Frater Cornelius]

I wouldn't sweet it much at this point. We have to see what we have for units and whatnot to see if the Demi is worthwile. If anything it offers us a different approach to list making.

 

PS; I am not doing it wrong. Only Templars bother to highlight what shouldn't need highlight. :)

Well, technically I represent a religious-militariatic Imperial Knight Order :D

 

My gut feeling tells me that it is time for a snack, but it also tells me that I will prefer Blade over Gladius, simply by virtue of the unit comp and my own list-building philosophies. Remember, all opinions are subjective and one man's trash in another one's preferred Detachment ;)

[Olataro]

Guys......how the heck are we supposed to field our black knights and rw command squad!

[SnakeChisler]

I dunno what the point is of including units people don't normally field in the Battle Demi Company

 

If I take a HQ then it would normally be a Librarian, I've a Chaplain in Progress but that still leaves me scratching my head as to why I'd need as compulsory an Assault Squad? (aside from the fact that GW are busting a Gut to shift Assault Marine Models).

 

What sort of free perks would even get me to look at this, straight CAD from the rule book looks a better bet requiring 1 HQ & 2 Troops for objective secured?

 

And looking across your HQ selection is then bound to a Tactical force for an Inner Circle Selection, points wise I can't get my head round how I could ever fit in an inner circle guy + demi company + my Ravenwing?

 

Oh well I guess we'll see in a couple of weeks but my 1st impression is one of much confusion the basic building blocks just don't seem to make sense in the context of 1500 to 2000 points?

[Master Avoghai]

Actually if we have 3 "gladius" detachments ie : one for each core detachment (GW, DW and RW), it's even better

 

Don't forget that you are not obliged to play a pure Gladius. According to rumours, the respect of gladius formation will grant us a better overwatch shot. But you can choose to get rid of this bonus and try other type of army

 

For example, you can play just the DW formation + the RW formation

 

Or a standard CAD (1HQ + 2 troops) + the flyers formation

 

Those can be nice too, that's actually what eldar are doing with the warhost detachment.

 

But better than this : you can play for example the DW formation + the vanilla scouts frmations with Telion count as Naaman and lots of infiltrated scouts with teleport homers...

 

 

Don't stay blocked by this page, guys... Think bigger!

[shabbadoo]

This is apparently just one of THREE Detachments that go with another EIGHT Formations (just heresay at this point, so who knows). A nice range of choices overall, and Attack Bike Squadrons are an interesting development. I wonder if the Ravenwing Bike Squadrons will go up to 10 bikes now, or if it will remain 6 bikes and the Attack Bike and Land Speeder options will still be there. Interrogator-Chaplain Sarphaecus (Seraphicus' name butchered???) and Master Zephon (Dark Vengance) are mentioned. The above pic looks to be part of a battle report featuring the Dark Angels and the Crimson Slaughter, and using the Dark Vengeance models in one of the new C: DA Detachments.

I hope they fixed Azrael's combi-plasma this time around so that it is an Assault weapon, such that he can actually fire it and not screw over himself/a unit he has joined so far as Assaulting enemy units is concerned. I guess we'll have to wait and see...

[Frater Cornelius]

@ Avoghai - If I think too big, my ZEAL levels will skyrocket and I might become a a danger to health and safety :D

 

But you raise a good point. Every Formation can be taken on its own, which might be a solid addition to any CAD.

[Master Sheol]

My main concern is the lack of BK/RWCS from this detachment that should be the most complete of all...

Probably there is a formation with BK/RWCS but if it's not inside the main detachment it wouldnt gain the detachment bonus...

I have the feeling we are screwed again... History repeating...

[shabbadoo]

Perhaps this is what amounts to a Greenwing-focused Detachment, and the other two Detachments will be focused on Ravenwing and Deathwing respectively.

[Frater Cornelius]

Just because you can not run BK you feel the book is bad? Not sure I agree. You are forgetting that you can still run a regular CAD. There is too little info out there to judge the book.

[Master Avoghai]

And don't forget what is the bonus for vanilla when you respect the gladius formation : one free doctrine usable once per game..

 

Wow... <_<

 

I mean, if your army already looks like that (and it's my case), that's a good thing. But if you choose to get rid of theis gladius formation, I don't think it's an issue when you see how those formations may combine if taken in a free-build detachment... Sometimes what you'll gain by playing those formations more freely may be superior to the loss of the gladius bonus...

[Saphrael]

Agree that just because RWK can't be fielded as part of the Blade detachment doesn't mean the book is bad, it's just a disappointment.

 

There are so many little tweaks our book requires (Azrael's wargear and costing being one of many) that I won't get down on it (as any true DA fan should) until I've digested the whole thing.

 

That said, initial taste left by the Blade isn't a good one. Looks like it'll be CAD for my tri-wing. Fingers crossed the Deathwing and Ravenwing detachments are good and not just GW moving all the usual DW & RW bonuses (like Scout or Deathwing Assault) into detachment bonuses. That's a big worry of mine.