Dark Angels rumors. update: Codex leaks, pg 28

[Saphrael]

Uhh, not to derail the thread, but you're not quite right there Avoghai. I'll only go into it because it bears direct relevance to the Blade/Gladius comparison people are making.

 

It's true that the Tactical Flexibility rule provided by the Gladius formation provides one use of the Tactical Doctrine, but the Command Benefit Codex Astartes provided by taking a SM Demi-Company gives one use of each of the Tactical, Assault and Devastator Combat Doctrines. Meaning all you need to do is take one auxiliary formation and you'll complete the detachment and get 2 x Tactical, 1 x Assault and 1 x Devastator. Those are pretty good benefits for any SM army so the Blade Detachment would want to have similar benefits given its lesser flexibility.

[templarphoenix]

So where's Ravengwing Black Knights and Ravenwing Command Squad?

Especially they pack the models into battle force?

[Hexagon Sun]

I'm assuming that the BK and RWCS will be included in the equivalent ravenwing detachment as per the deathwing redemption force. Given that DWK and DWCS are both 0-1 in that.

 

Although limiting, I do like the that all of these detachments/formations build fluffy and interesting armies instead of cherry picking all of the best units. It's nice to get rewarded for fielding units that previously haven't got any table time.

[Frater Cornelius]

Wait until further leaks and info.

[Master Avoghai]

Uhh, not to derail the thread, but you're not quite right there Avoghai. I'll only go into it because it bears direct relevance to the Blade/Gladius comparison people are making.

 

It's true that the Tactical Flexibility rule provided by the Gladius formation provides one use of the Tactical Doctrine, but the Command Benefit Codex Astartes provided by taking a SM Demi-Company gives one use of each of the Tactical, Assault and Devastator Combat Doctrines. Meaning all you need to do is take one auxiliary formation and you'll complete the detachment and get 2 x Tactical, 1 x Assault and 1 x Devastator. Those are pretty good benefits for any SM army so the Blade Detachment would want to have similar benefits given its lesser flexibility.

Sure but so?

 

Just look at the eldar : lots of them use finally a CAd + formations taken individually. The loss of the fleet bonus isn't a big deal for them

 

Same thing here : I usually play an army whose backbon is 3 tacticals 2 assault and 1devastator. Seems like I could swap one assault by one veteran squad to play an army that please me AND gain the bonus

 

However, I can also perfectly decide to lose the formation bonus if I judge that the gain I make is superior to the loss of the bonus.(wether this gain is tactical = more synergy between units, fun = looks like the army I love, or financial = no need to buy more models)

 

The rumours talks about "DA being better at overwatch". We can expect a better BS when it comes to overwatch. But if you like playing offensively and prefer charging that being charge, would you care losing an overwatch bonus if it's for playing an army more effective offensively?

 

And if the units entries, despatched in a standard CAD, are more powerful than in this formation, would you really bother not playing a Lion's glaive formation?

[GreyCrow]

And don't forget what is the bonus for vanilla when you respect the gladius formation : one free doctrine usable once per game..

Wow...

I mean, if your army already looks like that (and it's my case), that's a good thing. But if you choose to get rid of theis gladius formation, I don't think it's an issue when you see how those formations may combine if taken in a free-build detachment... Sometimes what you'll gain by playing those formations more freely may be superior to the loss of the gladius bonus...

It's actually one of each doctrine + one tactical doctrine for the demi battle company :)

But the way the Gladius is organized boosts "vanilla" army structure. You're not obliged to to run it, especially because some Chapter Tactics are redundant with the doctrines, and you can still be efficient running the CAD. I'm pretty sure it's going to be the same for Dark Angels.

From the White Dwarf article, we can infer that overwatch might be boosted ("hold the line against swarms of ennemies") and also some kind of offensive boost ("storm forward to sweep the foe aside").

[Frater Cornelius]

Guys, the Cypher rumour is true. My store manager read the product briefing to me. The LE will have a 36 page Cypher Data Slate. What it includes, it does not say, but maybe he is playable. Keep on the look-out.

[Hexagon Sun]

I've never looked before now, but has cypher always been under DA on the GW site or was he under chaos?

[DA_WarM]

I've never looked before now, but has cypher always been under DA on the GW site or was he under chaos?

 

At one point he wasn't even there.  When they released the data slate, they put him under DA.

[Olataro]

Guys, the Cypher rumour is true. My store manager read the product briefing to me. The LE will have a 36 page Cypher Data Slate. What it includes, it does not say, but maybe he is playable. Keep on the look-out.

Perhaps it's the previous Cypher dataslate?

[ZONKEY]

I thought cypher was under the chaos part of the website unless you can make a fallen dark angel detachment or is he now a Marbo type marine?

[Hexagon Sun]

 

 

I've never looked before now, but has cypher always been under DA on the GW site or was he under chaos?

At one point he wasn't even there. When they released the data slate, they put him under DA.

No worries, good to know instead of adding fuel to my rampant speculation!

[Master Avoghai]

I have the next WD in hands and here's what I can confirm

 

- the primaris of the interromancy is indeed "all enemy uniit within 9" pass their Morale and pinning test under 3d6" no discard the lowest or other thing: roll 3d6 and look the result.

- if you pick one DA specific maelstrom objective, you're allowed to keep it hidden until you succeed it.

- the objective 1-1 is : note secretly 1 turn, 2 turns or 3 turns. If, at the end of the noted turn, none of your units has failed a morale test, you gain respectively, 1pts, 1d3pts or 3+1d3 pts.

 

For example if you pick this card turn 2 and you select "2 turns". If none of your squads fail a morale test before the end of turn 4, you gain d3VP.

[Frater Cornelius]

Fluffy. Me gusta.

[Syphid]

I have the next WD in hands and here's what I can confirm

- the primaris of the interromancy is indeed "all enemy uniit within 9" pass their Morale and pinning test under 3d6" no discard the lowest or other thing: roll 3d6 and look the result.

- if you pick one DA specific maelstrom objective, you're allowed to keep it hidden until you succeed it.

- the objective 1-1 is : note secretly 1 turn, 2 turns or 3 turns. If, at the end of the noted turn, none of your units has failed a morale test, you gain respectively, 1pts, 1d3pts or 3+1d3 pts.

For example if you pick this card turn 2 and you select "2 turns". If none of your squads fail a morale test before the end of turn 4, you gain d3VP.

Wait, Dark Angels can fail morale tests??

[Master Avoghai]

Is anyone thought like me?

 

"What if I play deathwing and I pick this card turn 1?" :devil:

[Olataro]

I have the next WD in hands and here's what I can confirm

- the primaris of the interromancy is indeed "all enemy uniit within 9" pass their Morale and pinning test under 3d6" no discard the lowest or other thing: roll 3d6 and look the result.

- if you pick one DA specific maelstrom objective, you're allowed to keep it hidden until you succeed it.

- the objective 1-1 is : note secretly 1 turn, 2 turns or 3 turns. If, at the end of the noted turn, none of your units has failed a morale test, you gain respectively, 1pts, 1d3pts or 3+1d3 pts.

For example if you pick this card turn 2 and you select "2 turns". If none of your squads fail a morale test before the end of turn 4, you gain d3VP.

Wait, Dark Angels can fail morale tests??

Yes we can

[SvenONE]

Kind of surprised some of you are getting so worked up.  First, we haven't even seen whatever special rules we get with this demi company or, in similar fashion to the SM book combining 2 Demi-companies do.

 

But I can say that the battle demi-company is something that I generally field as a bog standard list.

 

Few things I am inferring from this:

 

• Ravenwing Attack Squad has been renamed to Ravenwing Bike Squad, the new term is now used for the formation
• Attack Bike Squads!!!!!  That's awesome, if RW retains Scout, we've got some of the best vehicle threats in the game IMO.
• Land Speeder Vengeance appears in 2 formations, but isn't phrased as a "unit of..." so there goes my hopeful theory that they could be made a squadron (cost obviously remains to be seen)
• Ravenwing Support Squadron is now the blanket term for a formation.  Maybe our landspeeders can still be brought as a squad of 5?
• RW Si-LOL-ence Squadron.  At the current pricing that formation costs an astonishing 500+ points, here's to hoping that number drops by at least 40 points per model.
• Prevalence of Scouts, maybe we could see LSS? Maybe their points reduced to SMs so that the snipers aren't automatically factored in?
• Deathwing Redemption Force is a hefty amount of points, with the current costs this detachment/battle company is 1000 points before you even buy anyone gear, kind of bummed that it's not 2-5 DWT OR DWK.  Which means it just got more expensive if you wanted melee terminators.

 

Can't wait to see more!

[Saphrael]

Thanks Avoghai, I'd just finished requesting a translation of the German WD leaks in the News forum. Good stuff (though I still really don't like the Primaris).

[Dread_Hospitaller]

That Primaris is broke beyond belief. I'm definitely going to splice in the 1st company formation from Space Marines, take 3 or so squads of drop podding sternguard, and just break several squads from leadership alone. The alpha strike potential is real. Splice in a few librarians with telepathy? So good.

 

Here's my question, though. Does our librarius conclave formation still apply? Is it getting folded into our book, or do Space Marines get the strictly better version while we're left squabbling with opponents over an overall weaker pdf's legality?

[Frater Cornelius]

Remember, that ever Formation can be taken by itself. The DW one can be played as a stand-alone.

 

Anyway, if that is the Greenwing one, I do wonder what the DW and RW ones will say ;)

 

As for the Cypher Data Slate in the LE, it might be the one that already exists, but why they give it to DA if they are the ones unable to use it? Also, given GW's tendecy to include exclusive stuff everywhere they can, it might be a new plot twist. Either way, this makes me seriously consider the LE, against my better judgement.

[SvenONE]

Well, don't forget that the Primaris will come automatically if you roll on the entire tree (we don't know the other powers yet).

 

A morale test during the shooting phase is kinda meh, but don't forget if a Librarian casts this and ends up in a nearby combat (I'm not sure if it's a blessing for the librarian or a malediction), and wins the combat, you could be in pretty good shape.  Here's a scenario I could see:

 

Ezekiel and a banner bearing command squad charge, or are charged by a group of [insert enemy that isn't a space marine].  Ezekiel, hardly a slouch in close combat, inflicts 2 wounds while the command squad shrugs off the onslaught due to an apothecary.  The enemy loses combat by 4 (extra point for the banner, a sometimes forgotten rule, AND maybe there is a Darkshroud nearby).  Enemy is now rolling a LD-4 on a 3D6.  That's going to give you a far higher probability to sweep them than any other faction.

[Stoic Raptor]

Guys......how the heck are we supposed to field our black knights and rw command squad!

 

This was the first thing I noticed - Ravenwing Command Squad/Black Knights are conspicuously absent from that list.

[SvenONE]

That Primaris is broke beyond belief. I'm definitely going to splice in the 1st company formation from Space Marines, take 3 or so squads of drop podding sternguard, and just break several squads from leadership alone. The alpha strike potential is real. Splice in a few librarians with telepathy? So good.

 

Here's my question, though. Does our librarius conclave formation still apply? Is it getting folded into our book, or do Space Marines get the strictly better version while we're left squabbling with opponents over an overall weaker pdf's legality?

 

I think Dataslates are still fair game, even if our LIbrarius conclave doesn't get folded into the book we can take it as an extra formation regardless.

[Master Avoghai]

Anyway, if that is the Greenwing one, I do wonder what the DW and RW ones will say ;)

 

Actually I don't expect much more for RW and DW.

 

In the WD it says something like, The Lion's blade detachment is one of the way to build a Dark Angels Force as are the DW and RW formations...

 

Strange wording indeed... ?