Dark Angels 2015 : Worries and Wishlist

[Master Avoghai]

My main fear now is that after some very good codices (necron, eldar, mechanicus, harlequins, khorne) we will get AGAIN the shortest straw...

My hope is that in these two weeks of releases before Age of Sigmar we will get something more than just the beautiful chaplain... A new veterans in robes box maybe with command squad/honour guard dual kit will be welcome IMHO...

 

I don't undestrand... Do you suggest that Harlequins or Deamonkin are nice powered codex?

 

They're just horrible to play. One of Paris' biggest store is selling the harlies codex at -30% and have a load of them. Nobody buys it because of its weakness... The actual joke here is to say that the harlequins codex was created to tone down the craftworld codex :lol:

 

So I do hope the DA will get better than the harlequins or khorne codex because receiving the same treatment means being worse than the current one...

[shabbadoo]

Guys look at the GW store for Dark angels, looks like they add all the space marines stuff so its not just DA models, hhhhhhmmmmmm no stormraven so darn

as long as the Neph gets a power up, we don't need it. i'm hoping for the same missile options as the Storm Talon, stuff the Blackswords.

The StormRAVEN is a TRANSPORT, the StormTALON is just a gunship. I could care less abouthe StormTALON (even if the Nephilim stays crappy), but the StormRAVEN I would very much like to have access to; especially for all of our power-armored, jump pack-less HQs, Command Squads, Company Vets, jump pack-less Assault Squads, Terminators, Dreadnoughts, and Honour Guard (if we get them). I'd have to get three of them "Baby Thunderhawks', and paint one each in Dark Angels Green, Deathwing bone, and Ravenwing black!

If they do release a DA Tac Squad box, and it looks great, I think I would be revamping everything Greenwing in my collection. I haven't done anything close to that since the 2E metal models were replaced with the 3E plastics,and now it would cost a kidney or two (somebody else's, not mine).

[Corswain]

My biggest worry is the return of the native American theme. I thinks it's a great theme and would be brilliant if fully and properly developed (hello successor chapter!) but it doesn't fit with the knights in space theme that I love about the dark angels.

 

Edit: Wishlist - watchers that don't take part in rituals etc. I like them as silent observers. They are "Watchers" in the dark not "Participators". I do however, love them on the tabletop. There current rules are good but I'd like to see them give an invulnerable save too (at an increased cost of course) to represent them hovering around those destined for greatness.

[FlamingDeth]

Librarius Conclave - This has me pretty ticked off. I paid for this a few months ago, and while it's a very small amount of money, it erodes my faith in GW as a company I like to purchase from. Can I overlook it? Yeah I guess. It just screams of lazy writing from GWs part. The interesting thing about this is that Vanilla Librarians now have Divination, but also are 25pts for an extra warp charge. So here's to hoping that we get Biomancy and come in line with the 25pt warp charge.

 

Warlords, Warlord Traits & Special Rules - Any of these looks familiar? Azrael's Rites of War is one of their traits. This undermines a little of what Azrael does -- hoping that he'll be made to be a little more unique. Khan also gained our "The Hunt" as a permanent special rule in addition to their warlord trait. Looking at similarly costed models to Belial, I'm hoping for some buffs to him. Vulkan, Pedro, and Helbrecht all provide some solid support buffs to their army while also bringing a reasonable amount of CC punch (literally) for their cost.

The librarius conclave is fair enough. That's a right hook straight to the flavor for us, no reason to give that away. Rites of War? Not so much. Know who had that in their 5th edition codex, and probably 6th but I'm not sure because I barely even skimmed it? Cato Sicarius. Know who had it in their 4th edition codex? Basically every captain equivalent from every loyalist codex ever, including the generic Captain and Company Master entries. That's probably one of the things I miss the most, and it's one of the things that used to make captains and company masters into sort of a force multiplier instead of a big ugly beatstick. Wish it was standard again.

 

 

As far as my wishlist goes, I'm looking for a bunch of detachments sort of like this:

 

Big Customizable DW Detachment

Big Customizable RW Detachment

Demi-company Detachment

These need to be basically armies in their own right.

 

Little DW Detachment

Little RW Detachment

Librarius Conclave

These should be kind of like the auxiliary detachments in the SM codex. Add them to the others kind of like with the Gladius for support.

 

Assorted Support Detachments

Whatever they feel like adding to give us more support and flavor, I don't really care what they are. They can be similar/identical to the vanilla ones or new crazy stuff with more Unforgiven flair.

 

I would also like the Land Speeder Storm because that seems like pretty basic kit at this point. I wouldn't mind scout bikes but that's not a deal breaker, apart from mines they don't really do anything that Ravenwing bikes don't already do. Scout bikes may also break fluff or something? I don't really see the problem since I doubt they just skip that part of the training and then expect everyone to be expert bikers the exact second they hit 2nd company. Generic build-it-yourself biker and terminator company masters that unlock bike troops or terminator troops wouldn't go amiss to support those who play successors and don't want their captains to be identical to the parent chapter, especially since it stretches suspension of disbelief that Sammael has the last surviving imperial jetbike except wait, we found this other one in the attic that we forgot about, you can have it, junior!

 

Points and rules tweaks would be great. Adding weapon options for the Nephilim would be awesome but I doubt it will happen since the sprue is already done. I would love to be able to replace those heavy bolters with assault cannons, though. Vengeance needs to not be stupid and terrible, but the only way it could not be stupid is by throwing all the molds directly in the garbage. Making it less terrible is easier because they can just change some words in a book.

[Guest]

Shortest Straw

Challenge Liberty

Downed by Law

Sorry, couldn't help it

Live in infamy

Rub you raw

Witchhunt riding through

Shortest straw

This shortest straw has been pulled for you :)

Anyway :)

Apothecaries allowed to carry a damn weapon besides a Bolt Pistol and Chainsword.

[Prot]

My concerns have shifted slightly. It is apparent the Codex Astartes will be extremely shooty, and for those wishing to shackle themselves to the Demi-Company, it will be very ObSec heavy.

 

This has me preferring the Dark Angels in this situation -if- not too many named character rules change -but- the pricing falls in line with space marines.

 

The gem of Ultra's is they have become Spam Marines. They will roll, and re-roll you to death with all aspects of the army getting to re-roll 1's regardless. Without allying, they're putting Cents in pods, taking advantage of Gravistators, that puts most Super Heavies, and deathstars in a whole heap of trouble.

 

BUT... and this is a big but.... the codex missed out on Elites. There is no 'elite' doctrine. It was missed for some reason. Sternguard will probably decline immensely between Gravistators and podding Cents plus Capt America and Grav-super bike friends. (All getting full re-rolls while Sternguard will rely on Prescience at best, and re-rolling 1's at worst).

 

So the elites kind of missed the boat. Further if you're a termie fan like I am, they are -extremely- hard to get into a Demi-company. They are otherwise only getting a boost from a high tax formation of 3-5 squads OR you just go Strike Force Ultra which has Zero ObSec.

 

Score a point for Belial.

 

Ultra's/Spam marines will still be hard pressed to assault 'decently'. Also the Demi-Company I predict will wear thin. Dudes like Calgar got better and Tigurius is nearly auto-include. Unless I missed something Tigurius is nearly impossible to include in a Demi-Company at 1500, and quite combersome at 1850.

 

Dark Angels have better Assault variants in place. I prefer the Black Knights to Capt America build, and of course you know my feelings on Az-Zeke bomb. If the tweak to the Dark Angels comes mostly in the form of the horrid points cost in place AND the inclusion of Grav Devs.... wow. Seriously it should be a great codex. Unless they break the big 'four' (Az-Ez-Belial-Sam).

 

I fear the Grav devs  might be a red herring for DA though.

[Frater Cornelius]

I am more excited about Tacs getting Grav Cannons. Tried them in two games today, one was tournament level. They work very well. If DA get those, I will be happy.

 

Also, what the hell is Cpt. American Build? CM with SE in CS or what?

[Master Sheol]

Prot if you want a more elite oriented SM army you go with CF and with Kantor you grant ObSec to sternguard while the IF CT gives a bonus to all bolter weapons including the special rounds of the sternguard...

 

Now i want to see how GW will manage DA and their "we are not codex but nobody can see it" organisation...

I hope for example that GW will say finally that CoVets are not made of members from other squads but are permanent squads of veterans in each company like DWK are in DW and BK are in RW... ;)

 

for example a DA demi-company could be like that

1 Master or Chaplain

0-1 Command Squad

0-1 Company Veterans Squad

3 Tactical Squads

1 Assault Squad

1 Devastator Squad

0-1 Dreadnought squadron

[Frater Cornelius]

I'd just play a regular CAD and call it a day. I just hope they do not tie the current DW and RW abilities to some stupid unwieldy and unplayable Formations like the Demi-Company.

[plasmaspam]

I agree with Immersturm. My main fear is that we will be tied to very prescriptive formations that will carry taxes of always requiring a full RAS or DW Knights squad. I like my Greenwing demi-company, and I like my pure DW and RW builds.

 

I'm reminded of the BA's prior to their current codex, where Death Company were mandatory, and only situationally useful, regardless of whether you may wish to field them or not.

[Frater Cornelius]

The main problem would be that multiwing synergies would be destroyed outside of massive 2k+ games where you can two of said Formations. I generally find CADs much more enjoyable and effective, as long as I get all necessary special rules in there.

 

If this worst case scenario happens, then there will literally be no reason to play RW over SM. Here's to hoping that GW will not do that since it reduces potential sales.

[Tenebris]

Unfortunately I fear that the Dark Angels formation will follow the current GW theme, aka sell those kits which cannot sell and will force the Dark Angels to take things like the Nephilim, Darkshrouds etc. 

 

I personally think that the DA will have it good if GW limits the formations to the core wings, Deathwing, Ravenwing and Greenwing. But... but we all know that this will not be the case. 

 

Until then my only concern is the Deathwing, I would really like to see this old lady of an army shine. I am sick and tired of seeing and fielding bikers everywhere. 

[Brother dean]

That will be fine if they make the things that dont sell playable.  With no rule updates then they will stay on the shelf because they are premium products that dont work...  Like Jaguar automobiles.

 

To be fair the rumors are out there that there are some rule improvements for the planes.

[CarbonBased]

I love the look of my Neph, give me rules and points that make it worth dusting off.

The formations worry me as well. I guess we'll see.

[Tenebris]

I love the look of my Neph, give me rules and points that make it worth dusting off.

The formations worry me as well. I guess we'll see.

 

Correction. We should not be worried about the formations but about the formation tax and which units will be included in it and how many. 

 

And I agree, I like the DA flyers and I would really like to see them done justice. 

[Prot]

This is what I am saying... the Demi-company/Gladius is going to wear thin, fast.

 

I have a necron army as my xenos force and it's the same thing. Sure the Decurion is good, but you will be bashing your head against the wall if you play it with any regularity. The CAD or Mephrit is just fine.

 

I keep saying this to the Grey knight guys... the Ultra Strike Force is rather closed and lacks true flexibility. CAD for SM is the way to go and grab Auxillary units as you desire (it's what I do with Necrons.)

 

Sheol, I agree but I have a DA force and an Ultra force... sold Crimson Fists years ago. ;)

 

Immersturm, Captain America build is very popular in the competitive scene: Captain on Bike. Shield Eternal + Hammer, add in Grav Guns on bikes, repeat, and away you go.

Also why are you liking the Grav Cannons so much? I always thought of them as something you need to spam. I guess it could work... just thought I'd rather see DA Devs get them....

 

As far as formations:

1. I know DA will get a big, goofy formation. It's just going to happen.

2. I would LOVE to be forced to field my Nephilim. One of my favorite looking models that I quickly nicknamed: Nephifail. It might be my least favorite flyer in action in the game right now. So if you want to make it functional? I'm so ready for that, I'll go out and buy 2 more! Just like I did with the Vengeance Speeders!

3. As long as we see point reductions, and they don't completely mess up our ObSec special characters (and their rules) it's going to be great.

 

As a side note.... I may finally find reason to deploy my old Ven dread.... they finally can fight out of tarpits!

[plasmaspam]

 

 

Guys look at the GW store for Dark angels, looks like they add all the space marines stuff so its not just DA models, hhhhhhmmmmmm no stormraven so darn

 

as long as the Neph gets a power up, we don't need it. i'm hoping for the same missile options as the Storm Talon, stuff the Blackswords.

The StormRAVEN is a TRANSPORT, the StormTALON is just a gunship. I could care less abouthe StormTALON (even if the Nephilim stays crappy), but the StormRAVEN I would very much like to have access to; especially for all of our power-armored, jump pack-less HQs, Command Squads, Company Vets, jump pack-less Assault Squads, Terminators, Dreadnoughts, and Honour Guard (if we get them). I'd have to get three of them "Baby Thunderhawks', and paint one each in Dark Angels Green, Deathwing bone, and Ravenwing black! B)

 

If they do release a DA Tac Squad box, and it looks great, I think I would be revamping everything Greenwing in my collection. I haven't done anything close to that since the 2E metal models were replaced with the 3E plastics,and now it would cost a kidney or two (somebody else's, not mine). :o:P

Ignore anything I'd written here previously, I shouldn't write posts after four pints.

[Frater Cornelius]

Seeing the Demi-Company, I need to scratch my head. Competitively, I see no use for it and fluff player rarely care for army comp. Competitive Necrons and Eldar are actually shifting towards regular CAD. This is why I only see UM and WS being competitive since they can do well without the Demi-Company. If the same happens to DA, then I will be sad.

[palin2222]

To be fair the rumors are out there that there are some rule improvements for the planes.

Source?

[Master Avoghai]

Seeing the Demi-Company, I need to scratch my head. Competitively, I see no use for it and fluff player rarely care for army comp. Competitive Necrons and Eldar are actually shifting towards regular CAD. This is why I only see UM and WS being competitive since they can do well without the Demi-Company. If the same happens to DA, then I will be sad.

Well competitive players do not care for fluff sure unless fluff gives them rules to abuse from ;)

 

Don't forget that the half and entire company things do not oblige you to take full strength unit to profit from the bonus. Make a full melta tactical spam, take 2 asssault squads with flamers, 2 devastators with grav and use Vlkan as Captain and you have 2 doctrines to use as deva in order to TL the grav and your meltas are automatically TL thanks to Vulkan. Put them in free drop pod and see how it hurts.

 

Tha's actually something I fear : full company and free stuff is nice on vanilla because you can use characters like Vulkan that upgrades your units as well as combat doctrines to make your unit more effective for a turn.

 

But for DA? Would we be allowed to use combat doctrine? Will our characters grant our squads with bonus?

It's nice we have Belial and Sammael but we actually have no battle company leader that could help. I'm really looking for such character.

[MeatGrinder]

Wishlist:

A viable pure DW list that I can use my 50+ terminators in.

Centurions

 

Thats pretty much it, I ran an all-terminator list in 4th ed using the SM codex, then when that got nerfed I switched to DW, then when their book came out I shelved them. Not sure a pure DW list even works this edition, with objectives being so important, and mobility pretty much dominating.

[Corswain]

No centurions! Just personal opinion but I don't even like the concept of them.

Power armor is suppose to be great, terminator armor is suppose to be a walking tank, why did we need another type?

Give me deathwing with grav cannons and if you want an assault drill, make it an enormous 2 handed corkscrew.

I understand the appeal on the tabletop and I don't think the models are terrible I just think they are totally unnecessary.

[Caldria]

Deathwing Terminators with Grav Cannons.... hnnnggghhh... if only.

I guess my biggest wishlist is that Azrael gets the Calgar treatment - not specifically the lord of war, but the big force multiplier + combat beatstick. Make the big man of the first legion worthy of his near land raider points. I wouldn't even mind him going up in points to achieve that. I want Azrael to have his place again :D

Then same as everyone else regarding making Deathwing something worth taking again.

I agree regarding the worries of dual wing builds becoming impossible under 2k : /

[dogfender]

I want less boner-jams for bikes, speeders and termies, more focus on troops, assault and honor guard(hoping for some sort of inner conclave)

[rendingon1+]

I want less boner-jams for bikes, speeders and termies, more focus on troops, assault and honor guard(hoping for some sort of inner conclave)

Well said.