== Martian Death Ray Club ==

[Slips]

Oh totes forgot to get back to this:

 

I'm kinda not up for S:D Volkite, honestly, which is why I went with S10 and more potential hits.

 

That said, also not really down with giving Towering Behemoths Beam Weapons (except for the Warhound) Mainly since the only logical way they'd get a beam effect would be to walk the Laser across the battle field.

 

So instead of a beam going:

 

=====================================================>

 

Like on a Glaive, which makes sense for it to be a heavy beam, a Reaver or Warlord would have:

 

\

 \

  \

   \

    \

     \

      \

       \

        \

      __\___________________________________

 

In terms of effect ...if these ASCII Demonstrations mean anything...

 

Thats why I went for a 10" (I originally went with a 15") Blast that hits the same spot Multiple Times since it illustrates a concentrated beam just saturating an area. It makes sense to have a Beam Rule for something closer to the ground like an Ordinatus, Glaive or potentially even a Warhound would have.

 

In the Case of Reavers and Warlords, Walking the Beam to illustrate the "Heavy/Ultra Dense Beam" rule doesnt sit well with me since the reason the Glaive has it is because it punches through everything in a Straight Line.

 

But, as a Revision:

• Warhound gets a Twin-Linked Carronade with Range 60" nothing else changes (twin-linked in this case would be re-rolls to pen/wound due to it auto-hitting things under the beam)
• Reaver: S8 Ap3 and down to Primary Weapon 8
• Warlord: No changes.

Heres my inspiration for the Reaver Version and why I gave it Apocalyptic Barrage:

Edited March 27, 2016 by Slipstreams

[Olis]

For the Warlord class weapon, seeing as this might be turning into a negotiation now, I'd be willing to drop the D strength characteristic but in exchange keep the Beam. Although the more realistic thing to do would be to drop the Beam rule altogether for a titan (because of the angle of attack), I'm trying to fit homespun Volkites from the heaviest of heavy classes with the only known superheavy version in the official rule set, keeping them somewhat homogenised and therefor palatable. 

[Slips]

Thats the thing though with the Beam Rule, it only really works if its shot in a straight line.

 

Problem is, for a Warlord with a Beam weapon to make sense, to me at least, would result in something like this:

 

(its a warlord ok?)

[+]

  |_ ==================================================>

  |

 / \   <People Not Affected By The Beam Here Due To Height>

 

The only way it'd work if he pointed Downwards and...well... its not using the Beam Rule Anymore, now is it :P? Its using a Blast Template unless you give it a rule like the Ordinatus Ulator and its Sonic Gun but on a smaller scale.

 

If we're going that route, you could do the following which would represent the Warlord Walking the Beam:

• Pick a Point Within the Weapons Range and place the Template.
• Roll For Scatter As Normal.
• Controlling Player can then move the Beam in any direction and move the Template 30" in that Direction; this cannot result in the template passing over the Warlord Itself.
• Everything that passes under the Template is hit by the weapon, friend or foe.
• Resolve Wounds/Pens as normal.

[Shaolin_Monkey]

Why not make it a blast-beam style weapon?

So make it that you use the 5" blast template and place it say 18" away from the Titan then it moves directly away from it up to 72" or something?

 

So it's still a concentrated beam that the Titan fires at one points and it deflagrates into the distance from there.

 

Failing that the rule that the Phantom Titans Distortion weapon has (where the template stays in place and effects anything still there next turn) has some potential use.

 

 

Or pretty much as suggested above while I typed re: walking the beam. Summed up much better above.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Shaolin_Monkey

[Olis]

How about... we give it a minimum range?

[Athrawes]

Just because:

 

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i327/nickfayette1/a54b1672-db61-4a94-bffd-09b830fc46ae.jpg

 

The rules say that space marine is hit by the heavy beam, even though it is way over it's head. 

 

My point being that models, and reality should only play a moderate part in the creating of fun and flavorful rules.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Athrawes

[GhostMalone]

Like say 36"

[Slips]

Or, we could give it two fire modes as a "Best Of Both Worlds" Approach.

Fire Mode One would be 30-100" Beam 3" Wide which passes through buildings and Super-Heavies or Gargantuans with 14 or less hullpoints/wounds.

 

Fire Mode Two would be 30-100" 10" Blast that hits a single area multiple times.

 

That way you can decide to either: 

• Annihilate a single, specific location on the battle field because screw that guy and anyone in that general vicinity. Bonus points because of World Burner meaning you can Deflagrate Nuke even an Invisible unit.

OR

• Turn a 3" Wide, 70" Long swath of battlefield into ash.

 

However, being a Warlord Sized Volkite Weapon with insane power consumption, you'd only ever be able to Equip One and would cost...say...+200 on the Warlord?

 

...you'd still be able to take whatever Reaver Volkite Weapon we settle on for the Shoulders x2.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Slipstreams

[binary]

I like the idea of the warlord volkite using the combo effect.

So how about this- Volkite Eradicator

S10, AP1, Rng 100", primary weapon 5, ultra beam* haywire, deflagrate, ignore cover, power drain*

*ultra beam - place the 5" template anywhere within 24". Draw a straight line between the warlord and the template. The template continues to move in this direction up to maximum range, and is only stopped if the SH/GC/building isn't destroyed or removed.

*power drain - due to the power consumption of the Eradicator a warlord can only equip 1 of these as a primary weapon.

Edited March 28, 2016 by binary

[Shaolin_Monkey]

I like the idea of the warlord volkite using the combo effect.

So how about this- Volkite Eradicator

S10, AP1, Rng 100", primary weapon 5, ultra beam* haywire, deflagrate, ignore cover, power drain*

*ultra beam - place the 5" template anywhere within 24". Draw a straight line between the warlord and the template. The template continues to move in this direction up to maximum range, and is only stopped if the SH/GC/building isn't destroyed or removed.

*power drain - due to the power consumption of the Eradicator a warlord can only equip 1 of these as a primary weapon.

Seems decent but letting it shoot 5 beam all 5" wide up to 100" is a bit overkill!

[binary]

 

I like the idea of the warlord volkite using the combo effect.

So how about this- Volkite Eradicator

S10, AP1, Rng 100", primary weapon 5, ultra beam* haywire, deflagrate, ignore cover, power drain*

*ultra beam - place the 5" template anywhere within 24". Draw a straight line between the warlord and the template. The template continues to move in this direction up to maximum range, and is only stopped if the SH/GC/building isn't destroyed or removed.

*power drain - due to the power consumption of the Eradicator a warlord can only equip 1 of these as a primary weapon.

Seems decent but letting it shoot 5 beam all 5" wide up to 100" is a bit overkill!

So maybe better as primary weapon 3 where instead of firing 3 times, every model under the template is hit 3 times?

[Olis]

Or, we could give it two fire modes as a "Best Of Both Worlds" Approach.

Fire Mode One would be 30-100" Beam 3" Wide which passes through buildings and Super-Heavies or Gargantuans with 14 or less hullpoints/wounds.

 

Fire Mode Two would be 30-100" 10" Blast that hits a single area multiple times.

 

That way you can decide to either: 

• Annihilate a single, specific location on the battle field because screw that guy and anyone in that general vicinity. Bonus points because of World Burner meaning you can Deflagrate Nuke even an Invisible unit.

OR

• Turn a 3" Wide, 70" Long swath of battlefield into ash.

 

However, being a Warlord Sized Volkite Weapon with insane power consumption, you'd only ever be able to Equip One and would cost...say...+200 on the Warlord?

 

...you'd still be able to take whatever Reaver Volkite Weapon we settle on for the Shoulders x2.

 

I think we're getting there. Two modes of firing. I can live with that. 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Beam Mode (Demi-Carronade):            Range: 30" - 100"    Strength: 10    AP: 1   Type:  Primary Weapon 1, Deflagrate, Haywire, Ignores Cover, Ultra Heavy Beam

Eye of the Emperor mode (Eradicator): Range: 30" - 100"    Strength: 10    AP: 1   Type:  Primary Weapon 5, Deflagrate, Ignores Cover, Armourbane, Fleshbane,                                                                                                                       Apocalyptic Mega Blast (10")

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I think maybe dropping Fleshbane would be appropriate (and I think the blast is a bit too big for a laser weapon). I mean, Fleshbane is an always wounds on a 2+ rule and I don't think there's going to be much in the game that's going to justify this rule. 

 

My proposed changes: Range 30" - 100"     Strength: 10    AP: 1   Type:  Primary Weapon 5, Deflagrate, Ignores Cover, Armourbane, 7" Apocalypse Blast

 

How does that sound, Slips? What does everyone else say, seeing as we need a consensus?

[Slips]

I just slapped on fleshbane as an extra "no, really, screw you!" rule for anything with a high toughness value like a GMC especially since its getting armorbane to deal with high AV values.

 

Totally fine with dropping it since it was an "ehhh why not?" Addition.

 

7" is fine enough and probably a safer bet.

[Olis]

Grand. We might even consider Athrawes as our beta tester. ;)

 

Thoughts on this, binary, Shaolin, Kurama? 

 

Beam Mode (Demi-Carronade):            Range: 30" - 100"    Strength: 10    AP: 1   Type:  Primary Weapon 1, Deflagrate, Haywire, Ignores Cover, Ultra Heavy Beam

Eye of the Emperor mode (Eradicator): Range: 30" - 100"     Strength: 10    AP: 1   Type:  Primary Weapon 5, Deflagrate, Ignores Cover, Armourbane, 7" Apocalypse Blast

[binary]

I like it. The minimum range is a good idea, although I think 30" may be a bit long.

I agree with the removal of fleshbane, even a GC is going to take 3-4 wounds from the blast before we factor in deflagrate, and quite frankly any volkite is more anti infantry GC are what volcano cannons are for!

Should we make it a one per warlord or can we pair them?

Just imagine a warlord with 2 of these and 2 of the reaver ones as carapace mounts? Oh the Choom!

[Slips]

Id make it one per warlord since two would probably be waaaay too overkill even for a warlord; besides, you still need some Backup S:D especially if we allow the Reaver ones to be shoulder mounted (depening on which we choose to go with).

 

Minimum range could be anywhere from 20-30" imo. I wouldnt go any lower.

[Olis]

Hmm. 30" is two and a half feet... well we could knock it down to 24" like the Quake Cannon or 12" like several other weapons. Given the opinions so far, 24" seems like a safer proposed change. 

[binary]

24" was what i was thinking too. And I see the point of one only. Pair it with a volcano cannon for versatility.

[Olis]

And little tweak here and a little tweak there...

 

 

Beam Mode (Demi-Carronade):            Range: 24" - 100"    Strength: 10    AP: 1   Type:  Primary Weapon 1, Deflagrate, Haywire, Ignores Cover, Ultra Heavy Beam

Eye of the Emperor mode (Eradicator): Range: 24" - 100"     Strength: 10    AP: 1   Type:  Primary Weapon 5, Deflagrate, Ignores Cover, Armourbane, 7" Apocalypse Blast

 

* May only take one per Warlord Titan

 

 

[Brother Pheidias]

Somewhat on topic, though not related to Superheavy choom, but seeing as I've been holding off on buying the red book(s), I figured this would be the right place to ask whether Castaferrum Dreadnoughts can have Volkite weapons? Got a ton of leftover Culverins from a bunch of Jetbikes...

[Shaolin_Monkey]

 

And little tweak here and a little tweak there...

 

 

 

 

Beam Mode (Demi-Carronade): Range: 24" - 100" Strength: 10 AP: 1 Type: Primary Weapon 1, Deflagrate, Haywire, Ignores Cover, Ultra Heavy Beam

Eye of the Emperor mode (Eradicator): Range: 24" - 100" Strength: 10 AP: 1 Type: Primary Weapon 5, Deflagrate, Ignores Cover, Armourbane, 7" Apocalypse Blast

 

* May only take one per Warlord Titan

I can get on board with most of this, "Primary Weapon 5" just allows it fire 5 times though which is overkill. Needs to just be "Primary Weapon 1" with a special rule specifying each model is hit X times (not sure on 5 either. Remember that each hit would trigger the Deflagrate too)

 

Also feel that a blanket Str 10 is unfitting with the idea of a death ray focussing on one point of the battlefield. Using the Apocalyptic blast system feels more fitting. Maybe Str D/8/6 and AP 1/3/5 with each model under the template suffering 5/4/3 hits. In this way the thing you really want dead gets the death ray focussed and the stuff nearby just suffers from deadly Volkite fallout.

 

Just some thoughts though, feel free to ignore any/all.

[Olis]

I did think about advocating dropping it to Primary Weapon 3... The varying strengths, however, I did not contemplate. Would that be too finicky? 

 

I did notice that our max range is a little bit too much, considering it out ranges other warlord weapons. How does a max range of 72" sound?   

Edited March 28, 2016 by Olis

[Shaolin_Monkey]

In regards to the Warhound Titan I don't feel it fits a "Scout Titan" to have a heavy Beam-grade weapon either.

Seeing as how the Volkite weapons are primarily based upon the Bolter variants at lower-grade would it not be more fitting to have a Vulcan Mega Bolter equivalent?

This may also be my opinion as I am considering making a proper CHOOM-lord tank (taking the Stormlord and converting all the guns to More Proper weaponry)

[GhostMalone]

I'd drop it to 24" minimum I'm still keen for a 30" only because you've sort of got to give some way to survive this, a typical apocalypse table will put you a decent way away from the enemy and that should be sufficient to give people breathing space, on the flesh bane I'd drop it but then again if it's house ruled I'd keep it of your opponent is a friend of choom.

 

Now what I would like to see is Deredeo choom I'm currently tinkering with an idea so leave it to me

[Shaolin_Monkey]

I did think about advocating dropping it to Primary Weapon 3... The varying strengths, however, I did not contemplate. Would that be too finicky?

 

I did notice that our max range is a little bit too much, considering it out ranges other warlord weapons. How does a max range of 72" sound?

Finicky maybe but as it stands if the template covers say 3 members of a marine unit, that unit takes 15 hits that kill them on 2s. They they take 15 more hits from Deflagrate potentially removing an entire 20 man unit without any challenge when ONLY THREE WERE UNDER THE TEMPLATE.

 

Caps just for emphasis by the way, so hard to convey emotion properly in text.

 

Even with PW3 (Prinary Weapon 3) you are doing up to 18 wounds on the unit of those three guys.

 

Maybe having different amounts of hits in models in different parts of the template is too much but the varied Str/AP is already there to be used and other weapons (incl warlord ones) have it already.