++From Hatred We Were Born, Creation of a 7.5 Chaos Codex++

[Teetengee]

I'll think about making the S:D optional, but I won't be letting him choose to do all attacks with it, I feel like that would be far too much.

[Teetengee]

Battle Tanks and Hellhounds up in the Warmachines dex, although not all the weapon profiles just yet.

Also, Aby changes will have to wait until I can playtest him in a few games, which will probably have to wait a bit.

Thirdly, it looks like Google Docs has added indexing functionality that should make my codices easier to read, so that's cool.

[Teetengee]

Playtested today: Nurgle Daemons, Farrow Cult.

All the units used seemed pretty balanced, although I am not sure close combat upgrades on plaguebearer plagueridden is worth it. Still, all the other things seemed pretty well costed.

Notes: a. Nurgle's Rot now does D6+1 shots, rather than not having a defined number of shots. (Oops! )

b. Also, even though the game itself went pretty terribly (bad match up, bad objectives, bad alliance matchup meant pretty much no chance at victory), I did have an amusing moment where my eviscerator nurgle herald was in a challenge with Gabriel Seth, and he failed to get a single wound on the herald. The herald then carved him apart gloriously.

[Teetengee]

Played a teams artillery list with Warmachines and Auxiliaries (6 battle cannon leman russ, 4 daemoncannon min size shooty renegade squads, 2 21 man choppa squads with meltabomb champs, and a demagogue with master of the horde, a thrall psyker, a storm shield bodyguard, and in the squad a flamer and a daemoncannon).

It worked reasonably well, and master of the horde, even though I was rolling pretty hot on it (4 of 5 units came back from it) it was still fine balance wise. So, that's good. Game was a loss but close. The rengades might be a touch too expensive, but I'll have to see, the matchup was a tough one.

[Teetengee]

I'm going to shift the conventional knights and titans all into their own codex, due to the recent release of the renegade knight organization.

The thunderhawk, typhon, and similar will get added as superheavies for the central book.

EDIT: And the start of the renegade titan dex is up... There will need to be some cleanup in a couple codices for that.

[Teetengee]

Playtested scabieathrax today.

I am dropping his attacks by one as he is a bit too killy on further analysis.

However, the purge cult and zombie infestation worked just fine and seemed reasonable.

[Teetengee]

Had a fun game with an open topped rhino rush khorne list.
Found some things that needed to be fixed (impaler wording, altar of gore objective) in that codex.

I won against flesh tearers with my friend's elysian/knight allies, btw. It was a fun game though, especially with units working as they were supposed to.

Awkward moment though in the fact that my maulerfiends took out 4-5 units without ever making a roll to hit in close combat (hammer of wrath or other units in the combat always killed it first :/)

[Khornestar]

Hah! What units got taken out by HoW?

[Teetengee]

I pincered a dreadnaught. Impaler took off the first hullpoint and we are using the facing rule for hammer of wrath in the new faq, so the 4 and 6 from my two maulers took off the other two hp. The others kept running into combats next to khorne berzerkers, which finished off the unit at I4 before the mauler could attack....

[Khornestar]

Any updates/playtesting for your stuff lately? I'm so disconnected, I play the game vicariously for now. Just curious how the homebrew masta is doing.

[Teetengee]

Yes actually, although I have been super busy.

I changed the corsair warband restriction to only affecting the non-vehicle models.

Additionally, I have had a large discussion with one of my friends about reintroducing some form of daemonic instability as a cad flexibility restricter and also a discussion about the Where Angels Fear To Tread legacy and whether it should affect fearless or not and/or only drop to hit rolls by 1 against units that normally ignore fear that it affects.

 

Edit: Thoughts on the latter bit?

[Lukash_]

Maybe I missed something, but Zhufor is a World Eater, right? Shouldn't he get the Blood and Sand legacy?

[Teetengee]

Zhufor was originally not a World Eater, but that's not a huge factor. Mainly, he was used as an example of a character who doesn't necessarily follow the standard fighting strategy of his larger group. The Siege of Vraks I felt warranted the Crumbling Cities warp legacy. In any case, although most World Eaters I imagine would be blood and sand, the idea behind warp legacies and the drift of 10k years of warfare is that not all warbands, even legion based ones, still fight using the standard operating procedure of their parent legion. For instance, World Eaters sworn to Abaddon might be Arch-Heretics, those experimented on by Bile might be Profane Alterations, those sworn to a daemon lord might be Heralds of the Dark Gods, etc. Part of my intent with Warp Legacies is that they are not purely bound to a specific legion, particularly since renegades would severely complicate that. They were patterned after the legions of course, as I imagine most chaos units would have been attracted to one or more of those fighting styles, but they are not restricted to them.

[Khornestar]

Love it, man. That's the exact sort of thinking I think the faction needs from a design standpoint.

I really gotta refresh myself on your codices. So little time, so much desire.

[Skallagoose]

I'm a bit of a Fatesworn lover, so let me write up something real quick Teetengee. I'm going to model it very closely to 3.5, current, and Warhammer Fantasy.

 

In the vastness of the warp the god of fate sees all, knows all, controls all. Whether you know it or not, even you serve Tzeentch

 

Army Special Rules;

• Allies; Units chosen from this codex have the Chaos Faction.they are Battle Brothers with Chaos Faction units of all subtypes.
• Daemonic Alignments: models aligned with a god may not join or be by mdels aligned with a different god, nor may they embark in vehicles aligned to a different god. A model may not select an upgrade that would give it an alignent to one god if itis already aligned to a different god
• Marks of Chaos
  • Mark of Tzeentch: Models with the Mark of Tzeentch are aligned with Tzeentch and gain +1LD. Each unit or independent character that has taken the mark of tzeentch allows you to reroll a single die on each turn which they or their unit has caused to be rolled. 
• Daemons of Chaos
  • Daemon of Tzeentch; Reroll failed saving throughs of 1. Hatred (doN). When manifesting Psychic powers, Daemons of Tzeentch may reroll a single die for each power
• Psyker Disciplines
  • All psykers in the book may select any discipline of Tzeentch, Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis, Telepathy, and Daemonolgy (Daemons may not generate powers from Sanctic Daemonology). 
• Veterans of the Long War
  • Models with Veterans of the Long War gain +1 WS and +1 Leadership

 

Fatesworn Army Benefits

• All Characters in this army gain one psychic level
• All Independent Characters must be MoT whenever possible

Headquarters

• Chaos Lord
• Sorcerer
• Daemon Prince (must be Tzeentch)
• Warp Smith
• Dark Apostle

***All these guys are the same from the main book (BUT CHEAPER POINT COST), HOWEVER; there is an extra chart for all independent characters.

Chaos Lords and Sorcerers get 50 points to select

Warp Smiths and Dark Apostles get 25 points to select 

Daemon Princes have 100 points to select from. 

 

The point selection

 

Upgrade list;

Daemonblade: Wielder of the blade gains +1s base, and may choose to make a smash attack in exchange for all their attacks. If the player does not choose to make a smash attack they may instead roll a d6 and add that amount of attacks for the assault phase. Unmodified to-hit rolls of 1 hit the weilder; 50pts 

Blade of Change: S-User, AP -. Successful to wound rolls cause a wound with no saves of any kind allowed (FNP as normal) - 50pts

Staff of Fate: The staff is +2s, AP 4, Force. -20 points

Fate's Chosen: (only one model per army may have this ) Model may re-roll failed saving throws -50 points

Unholy Strength/Toughness/Speed: add +1 S/T/I -15 pts per. Can only do one increase per attribute 

Chaos Familiar: Re-roll failed casting attempts - 15 pts 

Third Eye of Tzeentch: Re-roll failed shooting and assault attacks- 10 pts

 

Daemon Armour; 2+ armor save - 20 points

Daemonic Aura: 5+ invul save - 20 points

Daemon Chains: user may disregard first perils of the game - 5pts

Daemonic flight: DAEMON PRINCE ONLY, Change unit type to flying monstrous creature- 25 pts

Daemonic Speed: (NOT ON DAEMON PRINCES) Change unit type to Beast- 10 pts

Daemonic Statute; Eternal Warrior- 25 pts

 

Elites:

• Chosen
• Thousand Sons 
• Possessed (Mark of Tzeentch)
• Coven Terminators
• Mutilator

Similar to the older ones, cheaper costs. 

Possessed lost their random chart and instead;

Possessed; 

• Must take one of the following (free upgrade)
  • Daemonic Speed (change unit type to beast)
  • Daemonic Fury (Each model gains +1d6 first round of combat)
  • Daemonic Armor (models gain +1 to all saving throws, still fail on a roll of a 1)
  • Daemonic Pain (models gain FNP 4+)
• Each model may take one of the following
  • Strength of the damned: Unwieldy, x2 strength AP 2- 15pts per model
  • Vopral Claws: All attacks are rending- 10 pts per model
  • Pink Flames of Tzeentch: S5 Ap - template weapons- 5 pts per model
• Vessels of Chaos; At the begining of each fight sub-phase, roll a D3 and consult the table below.
  • 1: Slug Brain- chaos powers Cripple the Forsaken. They must strike at Initiative 1
  • 2: Fate is on Our Side!: Re-roll failed to hits
  • 3: The Eyes of Fate Are UPON US!; the Forsaken gain Fleshbane and armorbane 

Coven Terminators

• Veterans of a time before the taint of chaos, they were the selected body guards of great and powerful sorcerers. Shaped by the Rubric, they are now silent. Powerful Sorcerers may wake them to protect again, but connected to the material world through mere magic, the loss of that source may cause them to fall back into slumber once again. 
• Terminators with MoT. They also have the DoT
• MUST BE ACCOMPANIED BY A SORCERER (either Sorcerer Lord or Aspiring Sorcerer); if a sorcerer is not taken, the Coven Terminators may not be taken
• Bound by Ritual; Pick a sorcerer in your army. If the sorcerer dies, they must make a leadership check at the start of every turn following. If at any point they fail, the unit is removed as a casualty. Furthermore, Bounded terminators will always make a successful Look Out Sir to the bounded sorcerer, and will add +1 to any other sorcerer. 
• Containers of Dust; Coven Terminators are Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War, and brotherhood of psychers. Even though a Coven Terminator unit may be have the brotherhood benefit, it may not cast any spell. Instead the Bounded Sorcerer is the only caster who may utilize the warp charge given by the terminator unit.
  • If the unit contains 1-2 Terminators it generates 1 WC
  • If the unit contains 3-4 Terminators it generates  2 WC
  • If the unit contains 5+ terminators it generates 3 WC
• "OUR MASTER NEEDS US!": starting on turn 1, if the unit started the game in reserve, but the bounded sorcerer started on the table and is currently not joined in a unit (Unit of IC not applicable), without rolling for reserve, at any point during the movement phase, the coven may be placed within normal unit coherency to the sorcerer and are considered to have joined him. The unit is considered to have come from Reserve for interceptor and charge purposes. 

 

 

I'll add more, but let me get to the spell sheets

Disciplines of Tzeentch

 

Discipline of Change

• Primaris; Tzeentches Firestorm; WC1. Same as the current books
• 1. Flickering Fire of Tzeentch; WC 1. Range 24" S5 AP4 Assault 2d6 (may be 3d6 for WC2 or 4d6 for WC3)
• 2. Pink Fire of Tzeentch: WC1. Range: template. S(d6) AP (D6) Assault 1.
• 3. Blue Fire of Tzeentch: WC2: BEAM. Range 24" S 6 Ap -. Assault 1. 
• 4. Warp Unleashed: WC2. NOVA Range 12" S4 AP 4 Assault 1. Ignore Cover. Pinning
• 5. Doombolt: Same as current book. May upgrade to WC3 to become SD AP 1. 
• 6. Infernal Gateway: WC3. Range 24". Massive blast, S6 Ap 5 Assault 1. May upgrade to WC4 to make it S8 AP 4.
  • If a unit is completely destroyed by Infernal Gateway, Place a unit of d6 pink horrors within 6" of where the unit was destroyed. These pink horrors may act normally next turn. If the pink horrors cannot be placed, or the player does not have the models, then they are not summoned. 

Discipline of Fate

• Primaris: Third Eye Opens. Blessing WC2 The caster, and his unit may re-roll failed to hit rolls.
• 1. Just as planned. Blessing WC 2; the unit may re-roll failed saving throws.
• 2. Gift of Mutation: Blessing WC 1- just as in the book
• 3. Glean Magic: focused witchfire, range 24"WC 2. Sorcerer and opposing player roll a dice, and add sorcerer levels. If you roll higher, the enemy caster loses a psychic level, and loses a spell. The Casting sorcerer then gains that spell. If the enemy is not a psycher or has lost all levels/spells, remove the model from play.
• 4. Treason of Tzeentch: Malediction Range 24" WC 1. The enemy unit selected must use the lowest leadership value, instead of the highest, for the rest of the game turn.
• 5. Warp energy: Blessing: Range 24" WC2. All attacks done by the unit have instant death special rule.
• 6. Fate is against you: Range 12" Malediction WC 2. Enemy unit must re-roll all successful saving throws.

[Teetengee]

@Skallagoose: When you refer to the book or the current book, do you mean mine or the official one? Also, did you intend for the coven terminators to reroll armour saves? Additionally, I would prefer not to have vessels of chaos have any negative or too powerfully positive results, as in general I don't think it would be the right kind of random. Also, the points cost you have for daemonblade and Blade of Change have me a little confused. Are those meant to replace my writeups? Supplement them?

[Skallagoose]

@Skallagoose: When you refer to the book or the current book, do you mean mine or the official one? Also, did you intend for the coven terminators to reroll armour saves? Additionally, I would prefer not to have vessels of chaos have any negative or too powerfully positive results, as in general I don't think it would be the right kind of random. Also, the points cost you have for daemonblade and Blade of Change have me a little confused. Are those meant to replace my writeups? Supplement them?

 

Book; I took some from your book(s), some from the Current Codex, some from warhammer Fantasy (8th) Warriors of Chaos, and some from the 3.5 codex. 

 

Coven terminators; yea, they are intended to re-roll armor saves. The idea goes back to the OLD OLD OLD Thousand sons rule where they are almost immune to low s weapons. Instead of making them immune to low strength i thought it would be interesting to make them very very very hard to kill with low ap weapons. Only the strongest of weapons can destroy a dust terminator. Something i forgot to write-down is that the coven terminators can only take power weapons/fist. They cannot use heavy/specialist weapons. 

 

Vessels; Understood. The idea with it was to make a random chart that would give a bare bones guy decent; however, the fully kitted out guy wouldnt gain or lose much from it. But i understand. I just was trying to make them relatively similar to Wulfen that meet Possessed (40k) that meet Possessed/forsaken (fantasy). AKA they are fast hard-hitting units that can be killed off the table very quickly.

 

Points cost; yea i made a typing error. Points cost doesnt matter. I'm more or less just trying to get idea's down. 

-NOT DESIGNED TO REPLACE ANYTHING YOU'VE DONE. i really admire your codexes! This was just meant to shake up a section of chaos you havent gotten to yet; Tzeentch and Thousand Sons. 

 

 

 

Also; Update to HQ choices

(REMOVE SORCERER with "Sorcerer Lord")

 

--ADD--

Aspiring Sorcerer

(Reduce WS by 1, Reduce A by 1, Leadership 7). Significantly cheaper model. Psycher level 1 (NO UPGRADE OPTIONS FOR LVL).

Special Rule:

-New Blood; When manifesting or channeling a spell, if you roll a perils result, you may choose to make an unmodified leadership test on the leadership of the aspiring sorcerer. If you pass you may re-roll the perils result. If you fail consult the perils chart; it is considered to have landed on the result of 1.

-Unproven to the Gods: An aspiring Sorcerer can NEVER be a compulsory HQ choice

[Teetengee]

Thanks!

Btw, I have no problem with you wanting to replace things, I just wasn't sure how you wanted me to use what you had written.

[Skallagoose]

Thanks!

 

Btw, I have no problem with you wanting to replace things, I just wasn't sure how you wanted me to use what you had written.

I'm just writing suggestions or thoughts

[Skallagoose]

Also did some thinking last night/this morning.

One of the biggest issues with chaos is the lack of invul saves throughout the army. Any army without invul saves isnt doing well (orks, and chaos space marines). I dont know if you already have something similar to this in your lists, but 2 new equipment upgrades;

 

Bulwark of Chaos- 20pts

Daemon Shield- 25pts 

 

Bulwark of chaos;

-Usable on elite "mortals" of chaos; Terminators, Lords, Chosen, Any Cult Troop, CSM troop leaders, and any calvary (gonna still lobby for this for a while). 

-Similar to a Storm Shield; Provides a 3+ invul, cannot gain +1 attack for two weapons.

-Special rule (why you pay the extra 5pts); on a save roll of a 6 while in close combat the attacker takes one S4 AP- hit. 

-Sculpt is already available; Its the Warriors of Chaos shield with the spike on it.

-Could have a special formation that allows it to be any save roll causes the S4AP- hit, or something similar.

 

Daemon Shield

-Usable on HQ choices (not DP), or elite unit commanders (anyone you have to pay extra for already in elite squads). 

-Similar to Storm Shields; provide a 3+ invul, cannot gain +1 attack for two weapons

-Confers special benefits depending on the marking of the model

--MoK; User gains Rage, Furious Charge and Hatred

--MoN; User gains shrouded

--MoT; (having some trouble on this one. I dont want re-roll saves of 1, but i also dont know what to add here that would be grounded in fluff while similarly good to the other marks) the wielder may re-roll one failed saving throw, to hit, to wound, or casting attempt per turn.

--MoS; All user's weapons gain the Rending special rule. 

-Sculpts already available; Chaos Knights in AoS line.

 

Concept is that Chaos Mortals who are gifted the Daemon Shield are preferred by the gods that gifted them the shield and are on the fast track to being gifted Daemon Prince status; so its kind of a big deal they got it.

 

Edit; Just a quick note; When i make a suggestion or thought for a codex, a lot of the time i also try to consider available sculpts and how they would look on a model. Here; GW already has access to the shield from Warriors of Chaos, but just need to slightly change the hand-socket design to be compatible. This would also give the Chaos codex the much needed invulnerable shield which they currently lack.

[Teetengee]

I did give them storm shield access, but some other thing might make sense too/instead.

[Skallagoose]

I did give them storm shield access, but some other thing might make sense too/instead.

When i look at stormshields i kinda look at them in the way the Space Wolves Codex has them; Anyone elite enough to be considered "elite" or "guard" has the option for them, while the average soldier doesnt get it. Space Marines have a similar aspect to this but even all the elite options dont get it. So taking those things into consideration i think its reasonable that 'Mortal' "elite" get access to a ss or ss equivalent (so chosen is a good example), while the chaos "blessed" or would not (for example; possessed). 

[Lukash_]

I suggest looking at Venom's interesting Khornate Spellbreaker: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313149-khornate-spellbreaker/

 

Or perhaps borrowing the Slaughterpriest concept for another Khorne option.

[Teetengee]

I suggest looking at Venom's interesting Khornate Spellbreaker: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313149-khornate-spellbreaker/

 

Or perhaps borrowing the Slaughterpriest concept for another Khorne option.

Does khorne need the option? Not a rhetorical question, I really want to know what people think about that before I add such a unit to an already crowded hq slot.

[Skallagoose]

 

I suggest looking at Venom's interesting Khornate Spellbreaker: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313149-khornate-spellbreaker/

 

Or perhaps borrowing the Slaughterpriest concept for another Khorne option.

Does khorne need the option? Not a rhetorical question, I really want to know what people think about that before I add such a unit to an already crowded hq slot.

 

 

Its a good idea, but i dont know about the points cost. It isnt much cheaper than the assassin but the assassin has a null zone. 

I like the idea, and it would be interesting to see the assassins be added to chaos through marked characters, or at least their attributes. 

Changeling could be changed to be more assassin like. I almost want to say just make Skulltaker into more of that style of spell voiding. The masque or however you spell it, could also be another type of assassin that would be interesting