++From Hatred We Were Born, Creation of a 7.5 Chaos Codex++

[Khornestar]

Doesn't have to be my version, but a definitive anti-psyker should be a part of Khorne's stable IMO. It's been a really long time since I've read these codices, so I don't remember what options are there to that end. My creation still needs some work, especially in today's psyker and formation-crazy meta. If you felt so inclined feel free to mess around with him as a baseline to alter/do whatever with.

[Teetengee]

How about this:

Hidden Content

HQ: Spellbreaker

Spellbreaker________________125 Points

WS 6

BS 4

S   4

T   4

W  2

I    4

A   3

Ld  9

Sv  3+

Witcheater

WS 6

BS 4

S   4

T   4

W  3

I    4

A   4

Ld  9

Sv  3+

 

Unit Composition: 1 Spellbreaker (Infantry, Character)

Wargear:
Power Armour

Brass Collar of Khorne

Bolt pistol

CCW

Frag Grenades

Krak Grenades

Mark of Khorne (+1 A already added in)

Special Rules:

Warp Legacy

Adamantium Will

Stubborn

Independent Character

Furious Charge
Preferred Enemy (Psykers)
Hatred (Psykers)
Aura of Disdain
Psychic Backlash (Witcheater only)

Options:

Choose one

-may select options from the Hand Weapons, Close Combat Weapons, Special Weapons, Gifts, Special Issue Wargear, and/or Relics lists.

-or may exchange all Wargear for Terminator Armour, a Power Weapon, a Combi-Bolter, Mark of Khorne, and access to the Terminator Weapons, Gifts, Special Issue Wargear, and/or Relics lists for +40 points.

May take one selection from the Veteran Skills at the cost listed or may take the Daemon of Khorne rule for +12 points.

-if he has the Daemon special rule, he may upgrade to having Possession for +15pts if so, he may take up to two Gift of Mutation upgrades rather than just one.

-may take Veterans of the Long War for +10 points.

-may upgrade to a Witcheater for +45 points.

Hidden Content

Aura of Disdain: Any psyker attempting to manifest a power within 6” of a model with this rule or target a unit within 6” of a model with this rule suffers Perils of the Warp on the roll of any double. Additionally, this model gains +1D3 Denial dice rather than +1 from their Brass Collar of Khorne.

 

Psychic Backlash: At the end of any assault phase in which this model kills one or more Psykers, each player elects a model with the Psyker rule or a unit with the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers rule in their army and on the board (but not in a vehicle). The nominated model/unit suffers Perils of the Warp. If no model dies from this, all players continue to nominate such models/units until a model dies or that player has nominated all such units in their army.

[Khornestar]

Looking okay so far. I'd feel better about the Aura of Disdain if we added the perils on any double for psykers targeting friendly units within 6" of the Spellbreaker, as well. Adds much more utility to the rule. Otherwise, the opponent could simply not target the Spellbreaker's unit and suffer no consequences unless within 6" of the Spellbreaker, who could be slowed down by tarpits, sniped, etc.

 

I really like Psychic Backlash, but IMO without something akin to the Instant Death (Psyker) weapon for the Witcheater's loadout, chances are somewhat slim he'll actually manage to survive to cross the table, successfully charge, and then successfully kill a psyker. In an ideal game world, a character's special abilities should have a very high probability of going off in any given game. Obviously this guy requires a psyker opponent, but I think you get my point. Perhaps at the very least, a special rule that prevents Psykers from refusing a challenge with the Witcheater. Or, to put it another way, "The Witcheater bashes the cowardly witch's henchmen aside, forcing the psyker into single combat."

 

Just some musings on it.  I really like Psychic Backlash. :)

[Teetengee]

Yeah, I think the modification to being used against any unit in 6" might be right. Also, something to think about;

 

Nullblade: S:User, AP: -, Range: Melee, Witchbane

Witchbane: Against Psykers, this weapon does not roll to wound, instead, each successful hit forces the psyker to suffer perils of the warp. Against mixed units, resolve all hits by such a weapon one at a time (bear in mind the fast dice rule if possible) instead of rolling to wound against majority toughness.

[Khornestar]

Yeah, I think the modification to being used against any unit in 6" might be right. Also, something to think about;

Nullblade: S:User, AP: -, Range: Melee, Witchbane

Witchbane: Against Psykers, this weapon does not roll to wound, instead, each successful hit forces the psyker to suffer perils of the warp. Against mixed units, resolve all hits by such a weapon one at a time (bear in mind the fast dice rule if possible) instead of rolling to wound against majority toughness.

Oh, that is AWESOME!

[Teetengee]

I don't think three different rules that proc perils on the same model are necessarily appropriate though. It seems like overkill when at some point it just becomes "Hey did you mention Psyker and Spellbreaker?, better take a perils...."

Also, I made edits to the Aura of Disdain.

[Skallagoose]

An interesting idea for Daemons ruleset (i know we are talking CSM but this applies to above) would be:

 

Blue Scribe;

Spell syphon: Select one blessing or malediction on the board within 24" of the blue scribes (during shooting phase). The unit loses the blessing/malediction, and you may place the blessing/malediction on any unit within 24" as if the blue scribe casted the power.

[Khornestar]

I don't think three different rules that proc perils on the same model are necessarily appropriate though. It seems like overkill when at some point it just becomes "Hey did you mention Psyker and Spellbreaker?, better take a perils...."

 

Also, I made edits to the Aura of Disdain.

 

I guess it's a balance consideration, but one that depends on the scenario to be under/overpowered.

 

A.) Against no psykers, he's just about useless or will require so many points for upgrades that his killiness is balanced by cost.

 

B.) Against one or two psykers, he's extremely good. It's highly likely they will either suffer perils or get DENIED.

 

C.) Against psyker spam, he's as good as he should be. They're still likely to suffer perils, but they probably won't get denied given all the warp charges psyker spam/formations can generate, along with stupid rules like the conclave where the caster only needs a 2+. The rock to their scissors, as it were. IMO this is exactly what the Spellbreaker/Witcheater should be. The perils/denial guy who can join units instead of the Imperial counterpart (Culexus), who is the NOPE-you're-too-close-so-no-powers-for-you guy who can't join units.

 

Considering how easy it is for psykers to hide in units and summon/buff/debuff/nuke all day long with impunity, I don't really feel bad for 'em. Not every army, I realize, is capable of these silly shenanigans, but the worst offenders are. Amusingly, among opponents it's probably psyker-heavy CSM who would suffer the most. Orks trying to use Weirdboyz would have a really rough time, but the greenskins probably aren't relying on their psychic might to carry the day. Necrons, Dark Eldar, and Tau couldn't care less. Space Marines, Eldar, and Daemons are the prime opponents for the Spellbreaker/Witcheater's gimmicks, and taking wounds from Perils is one of the few ways they're actually going to take damage, given the prevalence of Invisibility, Re-roll saves of all kinds, 3+ cover in the open, 50 ablative wounds to Look Out, Sir! and so on.

 

This is obviously all conjecture with no playtesting behind it, but it sounds somewhat reasonable to me. Of course, with all those perils rolls you know they're gonna get a bunch of 6's and buff themselves. Now, if it were an evil bastard like me writing this unit's rules for my homebrew codex, I'd make them re-roll 6's on the perils table, too. :P

[Teetengee]

It wasn't so much a balance issue in him being too strong, it is just that it is hard to balance him to be not to hamstrung in other matchups, and importantly, it is also kind of boring to just have him be a perils bot with no other interesting mechanics.

[Khornestar]

Oooh, gotcha. Yeah, he's pretty situationally useful. Not exactly sure what else the anti-psyker should/would be capable of.

[the jeske]

It wasn't so much a balance issue in him being too strong, it is just that it is hard to balance him to be not to hamstrung in other matchups, and importantly, it is also kind of boring to just have him be a perils bot with no other interesting mechanics.

Give him 1-3 abilities used on activation with 1 being an attack buff[choppy-like re-rolls] 1 protection buff[or a debuff. again save re-rolls or FnP for a turn] 1 brutal anti psyker ability[something like the culexus has].

 

With the balancing factor either being the model cost[utlility costs points] or the ability requiring activation. something like X models have to die per turn for him to be able to use it, or make him kill stuff. you could even add a rule for the big dude to make a buff permanent, if he kills an HQ/MC/GMC[for fluff].

[Teetengee]

 

It wasn't so much a balance issue in him being too strong, it is just that it is hard to balance him to be not to hamstrung in other matchups, and importantly, it is also kind of boring to just have him be a perils bot with no other interesting mechanics.

Give him 1-3 abilities used on activation with 1 being an attack buff[choppy-like re-rolls] 1 protection buff[or a debuff. again save re-rolls or FnP for a turn] 1 brutal anti psyker ability[something like the culexus has].

 

With the balancing factor either being the model cost[utlility costs points] or the ability requiring activation. something like X models have to die per turn for him to be able to use it, or make him kill stuff. you could even add a rule for the big dude to make a buff permanent, if he kills an HQ/MC/GMC[for fluff].

 

Sounds fun. Any suggestions for what type of abilities would be good? And would any of the stuff I have mentioned above be decent for the anti psyker effect?

[Teetengee]

I am going to be coming back to deal with the Legio and the Auxiliaries dexes in the somewhat near future, but I have been taking a break with some xenos for a bit. Feel free to drop by dakka if you are interested.

In any case, these codices have been pretty stable for a while, has anyone tried anything out with them? Or had any thoughts they wanted to bring up?

[Skallagoose]

Sorry for it being long- Bored today and i dont know how to make it "hidden"

EDITED FOR REVISIONS -ADDED SOME REASONS ON POINTS/RULES-

Chaos 7.5 Codex

HQ

· Chaos Lord- 90pts

o Comes stock-standard with a 4++ invul

o Same stats as normal

§ The idea is that he is equivalent to Space Marine Captain, leading a section of a warband. He comes with fearless, which is more powerful than ATSKNF.

· Sorcerer- 65pts

o Same as the current codex, HOWEVER

o Mastery level increase cost is 15pts

§ A sorcerer with full upgrades (level 3+Spell famailar) should be around 125 points, not the 150+ it currently is. It would be slightly more expensive than Heralds or Eldar Farseers, as the statline is better, but they MUST be cheaper than the SM equivalent; they don’t navigate the warp; they live in it.

· WarpSmith- 80pts

o Lose Champion of Chaos

o Gains: Possessed (15pts) (up to 3)

§ Possessed Thrall may be bought as wargear for the Warpsmith. A warpsmith may repair a friendly vehicle within 2 inches rather than fire a weapon during the shooting phase. Rather than making the roll on a 5+, remove a possessed as a casualty and the roll is considered successful.

· Possessed Thralls are the statline of a tech thrall.

§ Massive point drop; Nobody brings them already. Was thinking about putting in the Elite Slot rather than the busy/crowded HQ slot.

· Dark Apostle- 70pts

o Lost Champion of Chaos

o May take Terminator Armor

§ I don’t see these on the table as is. I think they are good, if they had a large point drop and could be given terminator armor.

· Daemon Prince- 135pts

o Increase T+1

o Reduce cost of wings to 20pts

o Mastery level increases are 15pts

o Gains Champion of Chaos

§ 250pts for a lvl 3 flying daemonprince (no other upgrades). I think everyone can agree DP’s needed a minor boost in toughness and a decrease in points. I don’t know the stats on a flyrant, but the idea is to be a slightly more costly version of that. Remember; they are the chosen vassals of the gods and bestowed GREAT powers.

Troop Choices

· Chaos Space Marines- 12pts per model

o Same as current Codex

o Gain “The Dark Gods Favor Us”

§ As long as a character is in the unit, the unit may re-roll failed leadership checks. If the character was in a challenge during the assault phase, the unit gains “stubborn” during the remainder of that phase (unless the character is slain)

§ Increased the point cost by 2. Lacking “ATSKNF” makes me think to reduce points by 1 or 2 from current codex. I understand the argument that “but they are 2 points cheaper than regular marines”, but the sgt has to challenge out; could easily be killed, and then the unit could easily be swept.

· Chaos Cultists- 3pts per model

o Same as current codex

o Gain “The Dark Gods Favor Us” rule (see above)

§ Im not 100% sure how much imperial guard regular troopers cost, but I know they come stock standard with better armor. I don’t even think they are really great compared to conscripts (2pts per) for almost the same stats (cultists are better WS/BS) but worse armor (6+ on cultists vs. 5+ on conscripts).

Elite Choices

· Chosen- 16pts per model

o Gain “The Dark Gods Favor Us” rule (see above)

o Able to purchase Jetpacks (15pts), or bikes (20pts)

§ The idea is to have Veterans of the heresy act as these guys. They are ‘blessed’ by the warp. They should be better marines- similar to veteran squad.

· Chaos Terminators- 24pts per model

o Gain “The Dark Gods Favor Us” Rule (see above)

o Level out the costs of upgrades

§ Lightning claws – 5pts

§ Power fists – 10pts

§ Chain Fists – 15pts

o Otherwise, the same

§ Not an easy fix on these guys. Even the SM equivalent aren’t taken because they lack good rules at a competitive price

· Cataphractii Terminator- 30pts per model

o Same as AoD supplement. These guys can only be bought in an army which a Lord (or for Tzeentch, a sorcerer) is in cataphractii armor

o Same point costs for upgrades from AoD supplement

§ Chaos has more heresy equipment than the Space Marines; to them it could have happened last year- warp is fickle. Cataphractii terminators are from a corner of the warp that time moved too quickly. Can only be unlocked by a leader who is also a veteran of the great war.

· Possessed- 25 pts per model

o Must be Daemon of…

§ Nurgle; Gain Shrouded

§ Khorne; gain Furious charge

§ Slaanesh; Gain Rending

§ Tzeentch; Re-roll invulnerable of 1

o This is in conjunction with marks

o Vessels of Chaos

§ Units must roll a D3 at the start of each combat phase

· 1-Re-roll failed hits

· 2-All attacks gain Shred

· 3- Re-roll all failed to hits and wound

o Weapons

§ Each model may be upgraded with one of the following

· Daemonic Flame- 5pts per model (assault flamer)

· Tentacles- (10pts) AP 4

· Claws- (15pts) AP3

· Strength of the Damned- (20pts) AP2, unwieldy

o Change unit type to “Beast”

o May not take Icons (Claws cant really hold icons that well)

o Same stats as current codex

§ Increased point cost to make possessed a little more balanced. I don’t think the daemon benefits are that OP. A lot of things give ignore cover, and in open ground the save would still only be a 5+ (the same as the invulnerable). I remember these guys from Dawn of War with the flamers and just amazing scout troops. Trying to make them fit in that roll.

· Helbrute- 100

o Same as current codex

o May purchase Daemon engine rule

o May purchase, for 25pts, ‘Warp Metal Casing’

§ Increases front and side armor to 13

§ Helbrute is a newer model, so rules for it shouldn’t be drastically different. I wanted to make it a monstrous creature, as that seems to be a trend GW is moving to (armor crates), but I doubt GW will consider making a chaos dread into a creature profile.

· Mutilators- 40pts per (Max unit size increased to 5)

o Same as current codex

§ Just a point decrease

Cult Elite Choices (either Elite Choice, or unlocked by Lord of the same mark (or sorcerer for Tzeentch)

· Khorne Berzerkers- 16pts per

o Increase attacks by 1

o Mostly same rules

o Any model may have a Chainaxe for 5pts

o For every 5 models, one may upgrade CCW to

§ Lightning Claw- 15pts

§ Powerfist- 25pts

§ Power Axe-5pts

o For every 5 models, one may upgrade Bolt Pistol to

§ Plasma Pistol- 15pts

o Entire unit may upgrade CCW to Chainaxe

§ Point decrease; remove the special rule- which was fair. Point decrease=more blood for the blood god, RIGHT!?

· Thousand Sons 23pts per model

o (The aspiring sorcerer is 30pts rather than 23 to may a squad of 5- 105pts)

o Inferno Bolts (See wargear)

o May be replace bolter to have Bolt pistols/Force swords for 10pts per model (not the aspiring sorcerer).

o Same otherwise

§ 3+/4++ models; easily increased by psychic powers. Concept for these guys is to be a hard to remove unit- but more importantly; protect sorcerers. They KEEP SLOW AND PURPOSEFUL, not relentless. Similar to sternguard, but slow and purposeful. The major issue to pricing is that the aspiring sorcerer costs so much more.

· Plague Marines- 20pts per

o Same as current codex

§ Generally considered good as it stands. The idea is to make them less costly, to allow easier access to build an army of them. Remember themed armies anyone? Chaos doesn’t.

· Noise Marines 17pts per model

o Come stock with CCW

o For every 5 noise marines, one may replace Boltgun and CCW for a Blastmaster… (15pts)

§ Blastmaster is too damn expensive. The fact these guys didn’t come stock with CCW is insane. Blastmaster is reduced in price to that of a ML. While it is better than a ML, remember- only these guys can take it

Dedicated Transport

· Rhino (35pts) same as current

Fast Attack

· Chaos Bikers- 20pts per model

o Gain “The Dark Gods Favor Us”

o Same as current codex

§ Already competitively priced to regular space marine bikers. These guys just needed a way to not get swept

· Chaos Spawn- 30pts per model

o Gain Daemon of…

§ Nurgle; Gain Shrouded

§ Khorne; gain Furious charge

§ Slaanesh; Gain Rending

§ Tzeentch; Re-roll invulnerable saves of 1

o Still can take Mark

o Keeps Mutated Beyond Reason

o Loses Rage standard

§ These guys needed to be a daemon. The fact they weren’t didn’t make sense to me. Yes they are the lowest rung of daemons, but they are sprawled out form chaotic energy (I’d say born… but that’s too nice of a word).

· Raptors- 16pts per model

o Gain “The Dark Gods Favor Us”

o For every 5 models in the unit, a model may replace CCW for…

§ Lightning Claw… 15pts

§ Powerfist… 25pts

§ Power weapon… 15pts

o For every 5 models in the unit, a model may replace their bolt pistol for…

§ Flamer… 5pts

§ Meltagun… 10pts

§ Plasma gun…15pts

§ I think they may be over-costed here- but its not sure. A regular CSM + 4 pts for the jump pack. Not as good as the chosen on jump packs, but still good, and cheaper

· Warp Talons- 27pts per model

o +1 attack

o Gain daemon of…

§ Nurgle; Gain Shrouded

§ Khorne; gain Furious charge

§ Slaanesh; Gain Rending

§ Tzeentch; Re-roll invulnerable saves of 1

o May take Melta-Bombs on Champion (5pts)

§ No assault grenades, so they keep their normal issue. Chosen statline rather than CSM statline. These guys are the scour of the night skies. They are between men and daemons- thus having both marks and daemon rule. They are possessed in more control of their gifts. Slightly more expensive than possessed but come stock with lightning claws.

· Heldrake 150pts

o Same as current Codex

o Change Firing Arch to Turret mounted (it’s a dragon… its neck can turn!!!)

§ CHAOS DRAGON!? Yes please. Minor point drop and making turret to fix the fire arch issue.

Heavy Support

· Havoc 12pts per model

o Gain “The Dark Gods Favor Us” rule

o Same as current Codex

§ Space marines that have heavy weapons.

· Obliterator

o Gain daemon of…

§ Nurgle; Gain Shrouded

§ Khorne; gain Furious charge

§ Slaanesh; Gain Rending

§ Tzeentch; Re-roll invulnerable saves of 1

o Still have Mark of…

o Same as current codex

§ Yes, nurgle oblits have shrouded. This goes with Nurgle daemons. A lot of ignore cover out there, but still only a 2+ save in the BEST cover. Not unkillable, but still decent

· Defiler 125pts

o F 13/S12/R10 3HP

o Gain Daemon Engine Rule

§ Daemon Engine; Vehicle is treated as a daemon but also gains one of the following benefits

· (free) Khorne; Rage

· (25pts) Tzeentch; Brotherhood of Sorcerer (level 1)

· (10pts) Slaanesh; add 3” to movement

· (10pts) Nurgle; Add 1 hullpoint

o Same as current codex

§ These things are great models, and people WANT to play them. The problem is the thing is overpriced when ordinance makes the weapons snapshot. Few competitive lists bring them… If it was less expensive I think you would see more of these; better rules+ step 2= profit!

· Forgefiend- 125pts

o Gain Daemon Engine Rule

§ Daemon Engine; Vehicle is treated as a daemon but also gains one of the following benefits

· (free) Khorne; Rage

· (25pts) Tzeentch; Brotherhood of Sorcerer (level 1)

· (10pts) Slaanesh; add 3” to movement

· (10pts) Nurgle; Add 1 hullpoint

o Same as current codex

· Maulerfiend- 100pts

o Gain Daemon Engine Rule

§ Daemon Engine; Vehicle is treated as a daemon but also gains one of the following benefits

· (free) Khorne; Rage

· (25pts) Tzeentch; Brotherhood of Sorcerer (level 1)

· (10pts) Slaanesh; add 3” to movement

· (10pts) Nurgle; Add 1 hullpoint

· Mauler and Forgefiends are decent units. A small decrease in price (how is an assault vehicle that can easily be immobilized in the age of grav) could make them better. I don’t like daemons not having some sort of ability; hence the daemon rules. To be fair- the forgefiend didn’t have move through cover, only the maulerfiend.

o Same as current codex

· Chaos Vidicator- 120pts

o Same as current Codex

§ Not broken

· Chaos Predator- 75pts

o Same as current codex

§ Not broken

· Warp Battery- 40pts per model

o Wargear; Quad Heavy Bolter (two-twin-linked Heavy Bolters)

o 1 weapon battery, 2 crew (bolter and bolt pistol)

§ Upgrade;

· 15pts; Ectoplasm Cannon

· 20pts; Warpcannon

o Two profiles

§ 48” Dispersed; Large blast AP- S5 Heavy 2

§ 48” Focused; S8, AP 2, Ordinance 2

§ Evenly priced from rapiers. The 15pt ectoplasm is right priced. The warpcannon is similar price as a Quad mortar- similar stats, but 2 shots not 4, thus bringing the blasts to Large, and the AP of solid shot down to 2.

Cult Specific Special Units-

All are Elite Choices unlocked if a corresponding Mark is on the Warlord

· Skullcrusher of Khorne 40pts per model 3-8

o WS(5).BS(3).S(5).T(5).W(2).I(4).A(3).LD(9) Sv(3+)

o Cavalry, Daemon of Khorne, Mark of Khorne

o Wargear; CCW/Bolt Pistol

o Any model may upgrade From melee Weapons list

o Fearless

o Murderous Charge

§ Instead of 1 hammer of wrath, when this unit successfully makes a charge, each model makes D3 hammer of wrath hits

o Protect the Chosen

§ Automatically make any LoS

· Hellstrider of Slaanesh 30pts per model 5-10

o WS(4).BS(4).S(4).T(4).W(1).I(5).A(2).LD(9) Sv (3+)

o Jetbike, Daemon of Slaanesh, Mark of Slaanesh

o Warhear CCW/Bolt Pistol

o For every 5 models, one may replace CCW with…

§ Powerfist- 25pts

§ Lightning Claw- 15pts

§ Power Weapon- 15pts

§ Whip of Slaanesh (10pts)

· +D3 attacks

o For every 5 models, one model may replace bolt pistol with…

§ Plasma Pistol… 15pts

§ Meltagun… 10pts

o Assault grenades

o Fearless

o Soul Hunters- If a unit of hellstriders destroys a unit or a character in a turn of combat, add +1 attack for the rest of the game (cumulative, to a maximum of 3+ attacks)

o Protect the Chosen

§ Automatically Make any LoS

· Plague Warden: 3-10

o 40pts per model

o Statline of a terminator- 2 wounds

o Daemon of Nurgle, Mark of Nurgle

o FNP 5+

o Blight Grenades

o Chem-Bolters

§ Fires either Fleshbane bolter rounds OR

§ AP 2 Poison 4+ template

o Champion may take phlegm-Grenade (15pts)

o Man-reaper

§ +2S, AP 2, Unwieldy

§ “Sweeping attack”

· If a model with a man-reaper is in base to base contact with any models, you may add the number of attacks equal to the number of base to base models in contact with the model

§ Protect the chosen

· Automatically make any LoS

· Rubric Terminators: Unit 3-10

o 45pts per model

o Statline of terminator – 2 wounds

o Daemon of Tzeentch, Mark of Tzeentch

o Inferno Bolts

o Combi-bolters, FORCE Weapons

o Any model exchange their FORCE weapon for…

§ Powerfist…10pts

o Warp Husk

§ For every 3 Rubric Terminators the player may harness 1 extra warp charge dice. The Terminators do not count as sorcerers.

o Slow and purposeful

o Protect the Chosen

§ Automatically pass any LoS

Special Issue Wargear

· Chainaxe- Mark of Khorne Only (5pts)

o S+1, AP-, Rending (not unwieldy)

§ Making Bezerkers better

· phlegm-grenade- Mark of Nurgle only (15pts)

o When a unit equipped with phlegm-grenades either charges or is charged, the enemy unit’s Toughness is reduced by 1

§ The reason the grenade is not the same cost as rad grenade (which is 5pts), is that in the recent codex that had rad grenades (dark angels) they completely changed the rule on them. So my assumption is GW wants to move away from something like that for as cheap as it was.

· Inferno-bolts

o As long as a sorcerer is alive in the unit, a unit equipped with Inferno-bolts may cast “Inferno-bolt”. Inferno Bolt is a blessing that acts just like “force”. If successfully cast, the unit gains the ability to use Inferno Bolts.

o Inferno-Bolts; a unit with this blessing may elect to change the firing profile of the combi-bolter to…

§ AP3

§ Grav (same number of shots)

§ Ignore Cover

Wargear

· Marks; Same, Remember- Tzeentch invul saves cannot be improved beyond a 3++, but if the invulnerable would be a 2++ without the assistance of the mark, then disregard the mark.

· Same Melee Weapons

· Heavy Weapons

o Heavy bolter (10)

o Heavy Flamer (10)

o Autocannon (10)

o Multi-Melta (10)

o Plasma-Cannon (15)

o Missile Launcher (15)

o Lascannon (20)

o Grav-cannon (40pts)

§ Same as space marine- Only taken on Havocs and a weapon for Obliterators- NO GRAV AMP

§ Grav cannons were common during the heresy. I don’t disagree that it should be more like the heresy cannons, but that’s not how GW sees it. Very rare among Chaos, as it is only for those Veterans of the initial war, and newly converted chapters. It is too hard to keep the grav-amp in working order when away from the imperium.

o Volkite Culverin (20pts)

§ S6, AP5, Heavy 4 Deflagerate- Same rules in HH

§ Can take on Havoks, and Oblits

· Combi-Weapons

o Combi-bolters (standard)

o Combi-weapon (10pts)

§ Plasma, Flamer, Melta, Grav, Volkite

· Volkite is Assault 2 S5 as combi (Charger)

· Same for terminator weapons

· Special issue wargear

o Same

o Bulwark of Chaos; (20pts per model) Marked Units Only

§ 4++ invul, cannot claim plus 1 attack for two CCW, adds benefit determined by mark

· Khorne; In Close Combat, on a save-roll of a 6 (either armor or invulnerable), the attacker suffers a S4AP4 automatic hit.

· Nurgle; Increases FNP by 1

· Slaanesh; Add 3” to movement, Run and charge distances

· Tzeentch; (goes to a 3++ with mark of Tzeentch)

o Sigil of Corruption- drop to 15pts Unmarked Units Only

§ Concept is simple on this; A worse SS (4+ invul) but you lose an attack in close combat, gaining a benefit of a god. Only HQ choices, chosen, and maybe cult elites (the ‘new’ units) would get access to them. The Bulwarks are corrupted Sigils, bearing the marks of the gods.

· Chaos Rewards

o Ichor blood (5)

o Warp armor (20)

§ 2+ armor

§ Riptides and other monsterous creatures have a 2+, why not Daemon Princes?

o Gift of Mutation (5)

o Aura of Dark Glory (10)

o Combat Familiar (10)

o Spell Familiar (15)

· Daemonic rewards

o A lord or sorcerer may pick up to 20pts worth of gifts, a Daemon Prince may pick up to 50pts (Only 1 per army)

§ Talons (5)- ALL Close Combat attacks are rending

§ Collar of Khorne- (5) (Khorne Only) Adamantium Will

§ Crown of Command- (10) Bearer and units within 12” may re-roll failed moral checks

§ Unending Resolve- (15), cannot be taken on terminator armor, Automatically pass initiative test for sweeping advances

§ Daemon Soul- (20), Model becomes Daemon and gets daemon of… rule depending on mark

§ Soul Eater- (25) For every wound the model with this weapon does, roll a D6. On a roll of a 6 the model regains a lost wound (cannot go higher than starting number of wounds)

§ Axe of endless slaughter- (30pts) (Khorne Only), Ap2, Blood Boiled Rage

· Blood Boiled Rage; If the bearer of this model is killed, the player may immediately make a pile-in and attack at normal profile. This may allow the model to make 2 attacks in the same phase.

§ Helm of Many Eyes- (30) (Tzeentch Only), Warlord may re-roll first failed saving throw of every phase

§ Chain of Ecstasy- (30) (Mark of Slaanesh only) For every wound taken, the model’s FNP gets better by 1 (to a maximum of 3+)

§ Nurgle’s Rot- (30) (Mark of Nurgle Only) Close Combat attacks have fleshbane/armorbane

o Artefacts

§ Dimensional Key (no longer requires the kill to unlock it- ONLY grants the 12” bubble for deepstrike, not terrain bonus) 20pts

§ All are the same otherwise.

· Scroll of magnus-20pts

§ Axe of Endless Bloodlust- 25pts

· S+1, AP2, Unwieldy, A roll to hit of 6 is resolved as a S D hit

§ Allure of Slaanesh- 20pts

· In the shooting phase, instead of firing a shot like normal, the character equipped with this may instead make a shooting attack with the following rules; 12” range. Target must pass a leadership check on 3d6. If failed they are unable to do any action this turn (including voluntarily going to ground)

§ Nurgle Infestation- 20pts

· A model with this artifact may re-roll failed FNP saves

§ Talisman of Tzeentch- 20pts

· A sorcerer with this item automatically knows 1 spell from either discipline of tzeentch (no need to roll for it)

o All the above, from Rewards to Artefacts are 1 per army. Artefacts are generally daemon weapons or one of a kind in the universe. The rewards are blessing bestowed by the dark gods, but are otherwise not supremely rare, but still few amongst the many warbands.

· Marks of Chaos

o WORKING ON PRICES PER UNIT. My assumption is

§ IC/HQ-5pts per model

§ Elite- 5pts per model (this includes cult troop)

§ Troop- 3pts per model

§ Fast Attack- 3pts per model

§ Heavy Support-5pts per model

§ Anything with the daemon rule must buy a corresponding mark.

· Vehicle Equipment

o Combi-bolter- 5pts

o Dirge Caster- 5pts

o Dozer Blade- 5pts

o Warpflame Gargoyles- 5pts

o Combi-weapon- 10pts

o Extra Armour- 10pts

o Havoc Launcher- 10pts

o Destroyer blades- 15pts

o Daemonic Possession- 20pts

§ Daemonic possession now gives corresponding Daemon Engine rule (see above), as well as Daemon rule.

o Enraged Beast - 20pts

§ WALKERS ONLY; Reduce Immobilize to shaken on a D6 roll of 3+

Special Rules

A detachment (CAD, allied) must pick one of the following

· Army of the Black Crusade

o No restriction on marks

o All units get Veterans of the Long War

§ +1 Leadership, Hatred (imperial forces)

o No access to cult specific troops/elites

· Khorne Warband

o All models, if they can take a mark or be a daemon of a god, must choose to follow Khorne

o Models may run and charge in the same turn

· Slaanesh Warband

o All models must be daemon of Slaanesh or Mark of Slaanesh

o All models have fleet, if they already had fleet then they do not need to roll for consolidate or run- they move max distance

· Nurgle Warband

o All models must be daemon of Nurgle or Mark of Nurgle

o All models gain a 6+ FNP, if they already had FNP they add 1 to their FNP roll

· Tzeentch Warband

o All models must be a daemon of Tzeentch or mark of Tzeentch

o All sorcerers may re-roll when determining what spells they have

· I want to add more here too- like Nightlords, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, World Eaters, ect.

· If you look at Black Crusade and say something about how “WHY NO CULT UNITS!? !?” that’s because they should be a formation detachment. Cult units are specialized units. They work together and not with others. Common Chaos units work together, and sometimes with cult troops- but only rarely together.

Spells

A sorcerer with a mark automatically knows the primaris of the marked god. For Tzeentch, they may choose which primaris they own.

Tzeentch

Discipline of Tzeentch

· Primaris: Flickering Flame (WC1)/(2)/(3)

o 24” S4, AP5, Assault D6

o Add a d6 for each warp charge success you get, up to WC 3.

o You do not need to declare the warp charge before rolling

· 1: Tzeentch’s Firestorm (WC1)

o 24” SD6+1, AP- Assault 1, Blast, Inferno

§ Inferno- each model removed causes D3 further hits at S 3 AP-

· 2: Chaotic Warp (WC1)

o 24” Focused Witchfire. Model must make a strength test or be removed, Assault 1

· 3:Doombolt (WC1)/(WC2)

o Beam, 18” S8 AP1 Assault 1, detonate

o If controlling player wishes they may instead change to (WC2) to increase range to 24” and S10

· 4: Pink Flame of Tzeentch (WC2)

§ 12” Nova, S7, Ap 4, Ignore Cover Assault d6, Warp Flame

§ Any unit that takes a wound to this spell must immediately pass a toughness check. If passed, nothing happens. If failed the unit suffers from the ‘strikedown’ effect.

· 5: breath of Chaos (WC2)

o Witchfire, Template, S1 AP2, Assault 1 Corrosion, Poison 4+

§ Corrosion, Vehicles suffer a glancing hit on a roll of a 4+ regardless of armor

· 6: Tzeentch; Prismatic Gaze (WC3)

o Witchfire, 24”, S D, AP 1, Assault 1, Explosive Warp

§ Explosive Warp; On a roll of any double to harness the warp power, and if the targeted model is removed from play, place an apocalyptic blast marker where the model once was. Everything (friend or foe) takes a S4 AP- hit as if it originated from that location. If a double is rolled but the spell was not successful, the apocalypse blast is centered on the casting model.

Discipline of the Rubric

(if a profile has both a blessing and a malediction, the caster must declare what they are attempting to harness before rolling the dice)

· Primaris: Path of the Corvidae (WC2)

o 12” Blessing; A friendly unit makes all weapons twin-linked

o 12”Malediction; an enemy unit must re-roll successful shooting attacks

· 1: Treason of Tzeentch (WC1)

o Malediction; Targeted unit must re-roll successful saving throws

· 2: Forced Flesh Change (WC1)

o 24” Malediction; Enemy unit suffers one of the following results

§ -1 toughness

§ -1 strength

§ Unwieldy (still does not affect Monstrous creatures)

o 24” Blessing; friendly unit gains on the of following results

§ +1 strength

§ +1 Toughness

§ +1 initiative

· 3: Third Eye Opens (WC2)

o 24” blessing; Re-roll failed saving throws

· 4: Curse of the Rubric (WC2)

o 24” Malediction; enemy unit may not run, turbo-boost, or fire overwatch

· 5: Path of the Pavoni (WC2)

o Blessing; give all units within 12” Rage and furious charge

· 6: Shield of Raptora (WC3)

o 24” Blessing; Select a unit. Invulnerable saves are increased by 2, to a maximum of 2+ saving throw.

o 24” Malediction; Enemy unit reduces invulnerable saves by 2. Cannot be worse than a 6+

Discipline of Nurgle

· Primaris: Nurgle’s Rot (WC1)

o Nova 6” S2, AP5, Assailt D6+1 Poisoned 4+

· 1: Weapon Virus (WC1)

o 24” maledication; a single enemy unit has gets hot for all of its weapons

· 2: Gift on Contagion (WC1)

o 48” malediction; Roll a D3. An enemy unit within 48” suffers one of the following:

§ D1- Flyblown Palsy; -1 attack, -1BS

§ D2- Muscular Atrophy; -1S, may not run

§ D3- Liquefying Ague; -1S, -1T

· 3: Rampant Decomposition WC2

o Focused witchfire 12”, S* AP2, assault 1, ignores cover, instant death, internal liquefaction

§ Do not roll to wound. Instead roll a D6- if the result is higher than the number of wounds the target has remaining, it suffers 1 wound. Does not affect vehicles

· 4: putrescent vitality; WC1-3; Blessing

o 24” blessing, targets a friendly unit with either mark or daemon of nurgle. The unit gains a toughness to the same number that the WC was

· 5: Plague Wind WC2 witchfire

o 12” S 1 AP 2 Assaut 1, Large blast, poisoned 4+

· 6: Pestilent Plague WC2 Witchfire

o 24” S1 AP 2 Assault 1, Large Blast, Poisoned 2+, Rust Corruption

§ Vehicles suffer a glancing hit on a 2+ and a penetrating hit on a roll of a 6

Discipline of Slaanesh

· Primaris; Sensory Overload; WC 1

o Witchfire, 24” S4, AP 4, Assault 4, Blind, Concussive, pinning

· 1; Hysterical Frency Blessing WC1

o Blessing; Roll a D3. A friendly unit within 12” consults the table below

§ D1 Swollen sensorium; +1 initiative

§ D2 Lunatic Strength; +1 Strength

§ D3 Hyperactive Fit; +1 Attack

· 2; Symphony of Pain WC 1

o malediction; an enemy unit in 24” is at -1 WS and -1 BS. Any sonic weapon attacks against the unit are resolved at +1S

· 3; Sonic Blast WC1

o 36” Witchfire, S8, AP3, Assault 1, Large Blast, Pinning, Ignores cover

· 4; Phantasmagoria WC1

o 18” malediction. Each time the unit wishes to make one of the following actions- move, manifest psychic powers, run, shoot, charge, make attacks, make sweeping advance, consolidate, or fire overwhatch- it must pass a leadership test or be unable to perform the action.

· 5; Ecstatic Seizures WC2

o Witchfire 24” Assault 1, exctasy; every non-vehicle model in the target unit takes a hit at it own strength

· 6: Acquiescence of Doom WC2

o Witchfre 24” Target unit must pass a leadership test on 3d6. The unit suffers a number of wounds equal to the dice roll minus the leadership. If the unit takes any wounds they subtract the amount of wounds from their leadership for the remainder of the game.

§ Example; A space marine unit with leadership 8 rolls a 10. The unit takes 2 wounds and is now leadership 6 for the remainder of the game.

Tzeentch is designed into 2 separate charts. The first being the old fashioned version. A lot of witchfires and high damage. Some randomness, but some removed. The second chart is designed to be the blessing/malediction. The concept is to force changes in the board; the game type should change drastically.

Champion of chaos rule;

A character with this rule must always issue or accept a challenge. Whenever a model with this rule kills an enemy character, or monsterous creature, roll 2d6 and consult the table below. A model that gains a benefit will have the benefit for the rest of the game.

2- Spawndom; Make a leadership test. If failed, character is replaced by a spawn. If passed, character takes a wound with no saves of any kind allowed

3- BS+1

4- WS+1

5- A+1

6- W+1

7- The Eye Opens; Player may choose which benefit to gain (with exception of spawndom or daemonhood)

8- All saving throws are increased by 1, but armor save remains what it was (AP3 still goes through power armor)

9- I+1

10- T+1

11- S+1

12Daemonhood- replace character with a DP; the DP has all the wargear and upgrades the character had.

[Khornestar]

Still a lot to read through and digest, but IMO the skullcrushers should have grenades. Seems pretty standard for non daemon power armored bros.

[Skallagoose]

Still a lot to read through and digest, but IMO the skullcrushers should have grenades. Seems pretty standard for non daemon power armored bros.

any suggestions are welcome. 

 

I figured i would finish up that list ive been working on today... maybe lighten the mood from all the complaining and sadness of the day.

[Teetengee]

Most of that seems very undercosted to me. Additionally, some of the things (2+ invuln, reroll FNP) are fairly degenerate gameplay, not really interactive or fun for either player. Finally, some of the psychic powers seem too strong.

Still, interesting ideas.

[Skallagoose]

Most of that seems very undercosted to me. Additionally, some of the things (2+ invuln, reroll FNP) are fairly degenerate gameplay, not really interactive or fun for either player. Finally, some of the psychic powers seem too strong.

 

Still, interesting ideas.

For the prices; i agree. i couldnt find a sweet spot. I tried to reduce the price to be close to what it is in other codexes (SM, BA, SW), while also taking into account lack of "and they shall know no fear" and what isnt used in the game currently. Defiler needs massive reduction in price... But it was only today i decided the price of the marks, which i think really brought down the cost of each model. Maybe have marks go back up to 5pts per IC, 1pt per Troop choice, 3 pts per elite, 3 per heavy support, 3 per fast attack? Currently the codex prices for the marks are "too damn high" and really hurt the army.

 

Yea... i agree i made 2+ invul very easy for Tzeentch. I just was hoping for something to counter SS, and give some added survivability to the army as a whole. Re-roll FNP on nurgle costs a fair bit- in that list and its just 1 model. Its kinda a more heavily costed IronHands Captain on a bike with the Gorgons chain (they have a 2+FNP), maybe cap the FNP for nurgle on a 3+ then which would mean a 1/9 chance of failing FNP roll vs Gorgon Chain IH 1/6. Odds arent that different, but i think the nurgle would be slightly more cost wise- and wouldnt be able to have a 3+invul stock standard...

 

Either way, you have me some ideas to critique- Thanks for the feedback

[Sception]

Why is invulnerable saves a tzeentch thing anyway?  They're most needed for melee duelists - khorne and slaanesh types.  Restricting tolerable invulnerables to tzeentch is one of the fundamental problems with chaos design right now.  Find something else for tzeentch to do.

[Skallagoose]

Why is invulnerable saves a tzeentch thing anyway?  They're most needed for melee duelists - khorne and slaanesh types.  Restricting tolerable invulnerables to tzeentch is one of the fundamental problems with chaos design right now.  Find something else for tzeentch to do.

Invul on tzeentch was to keep with current, and a long, trend to give invuls to Tzeentch. I agree, its not preferable, but i didnt want to re-invent the wheel. I thought giving a 4++ to the other, with nurgle having access to really good FNP on top of +T. Idea for Slaanesh was to give added initiative that can could kill before they get killed (high focus towards rending and lighting claws). Khorne should be a melee powerhouse- so the give-take to that is that they arent super survivable. Maybe extending the Wulfen rule, where you can strike even if you die, to more khorne? but that would be a REALLY powerful tool...

 

Tzeentch, i would imagine, would be ranged psychic damage- so they need to be able to weather the storm. Maybe i should bring the invul back to a 3+ and make it so that MoT cant be better than a 3++, but can be re-rolled.

 

I love the thousand sons story line. So please critique me on tzeentch stuff, because i know im bias. I want to make a top end codex- but not broken. I tried to make inferno bolts similar to Special Issue ammunition of the death watch, but more sorcery and gives an answer to what chaos does not have- anti- tank.

 

What did you guys think of spells having both blessing and maledictions?

Or the artifacts?

[Sception]

Our "wheel" is a damned square, Skallagoose.  It isn't just broken, it's fudamentally flawed in its design - it does not and has not and will not turn.  The entire point of homebrew projects like this is to reinvent that wheel.

[A.T.]

Only a quick look, but -

 

-----Units-----

 

Sorcerers - do you feel that 105 points is appropriate for a level 3 psyker?  On the one hand the price is comparable to level 3 farseers and heralds, on the other hand it is entirely under-costed relative to other astartes psykers.

 

Daemon Prince - T6, flying, ML3 monstrous creature for 165 points. My first instinct would be to say this is a little on the cheap side given that flyrant spam is considered tournament-worthy and these guys cost as much as an un-upgraded wingless tyrant. Prince spam anyone?

 

Chaos marines - Formations aside you have valued a squad of 14 traitors as being equal to 11 loyalists - do you feel that the ability to reroll 1s with bolters or a 6+ feel no pain provides that degree of advantage?

Note - this is before taking into account the special rules as you didn't price them - but as appropriate do you feel those 11 loyalists are in with an even chance once their 14 opponents have hatred, or once they are on equal numbers against toughness 5 5+ FNP models.

Aside from that you've also managed to make them cheaper than battle sisters, though the sisters are overpriced.

 

Cultists - 3 point humans exist. See Renegades and Heretics and Astra Militarum conscripts. No issues at all with the price but use the appropriate stateline.

 

Possessed - Probably worth playtesting a few waves of beasts with shrouding and S5 power swords/axes. Particularly with any of the million CSM formations that seem to use them and heap bonuses on them.

 

Helbrute - It's a dreadnought, not a wraithlord.

 

Berzerkers - Looks fine aside from slapping the wulfen rule on as a brucie bonus. If you are going to give a unit a significant power boost don't also go and give it a significant price break.

Query - chain axe missing cost or free upgrade?

 

Thousand Sons - Stormshield wielding fearless, relentless, gravgun sternguard for 18pts a model?

 

Plague Marines - Are considered reasonably good as it stands. Rationale for knocking 6 points off their cost?

 

Noise Marines - Query - as with Berzerkers, is this just a missing cost or do they get a complimentary free heavy weapon for every 5 models?

 

Warp Talons - As with Berzerkers, don't hugely buff a unit and then take a huge chunk out of it's cost.

Keep in mind that each model is now a 4 rending lightning claws on the charge, fearless, 5+ invulnerable jump infantry for all of 5 points more than an assault marine with a bolt pistol.

 

Havocs - Same as with chaos marines, though i'm curious - why different points values?

 

Oblits - Nurgle will be even more popular in 2+ cover.

Query - all the tzeentch daemon stuff mention re-roll saves of 1. All saves?

 

Defiler - pay 70pts less per model to have AV13 and psychic powers. Bargain. And competitively priced with a stormbolter armed ironclad.

I think you've gone in the wrong direction with this one. The defiler needs help but this is a little much.

 

Maulerfiends/Forgefiends - Slaanesh and Nurgle daemon engines are inappropriate for these units (they already have these rules). Consider revising the list across the board.

 

Warp Battery - Rapiers, price appropriately (particularly for the warp cannon which is a mis-costed outright upgrade over the regular laser destroyer). Remember to include the crew.

 

 

-----New units-----

(not had time to look at them in detail, though the 2 wound terminators jumped out as having a ludicrous number of abilities and bonuses for their cost when I skimmed over)

 

 

-----Wargear-----

 

Phlegm Grenades - I understand that they only work on the first round of combat, but I think their price should still be closer to the near identical rad grenades - particularly as they are integral to the unit rather than carried around on a tax-inquisitor.

 

Inferno Bolts - see Thousand Sons entry

 

Heavy bolter - I agree with the cost of the heavy bolter, but GW does not.

 

Heavy flamer - Is worth more than a flamer.

 

Grav cannon - mixed feelings about pinching signature weaponry from other factions. Not even all loyalists get it. HOWEVER - main concern here would be the newly minted super-oblits suddenly running around with grav cannons, it's a truly significant game-altering buff hidden away here.

 

Sigil of Corruption - it's a small thing, but it makes chaos lords cheaper than their loyalist counterparts. Not sure the full 10 point difference is really warranted but at the same time I can't say i'm too up in arms about it either.

I can see in many cases the Bulkwark of Chaos simply being chosen instead as a discount stormshield - 80pts for a 3++ marine captain?

 

Rewards - Talons - query - basic cc attacks, or all cc weapons? Collar of Khorne - isn't worth 10 points IMO. Your mileage may vary.

I feel the final two rewards will see a lot of action too, particularly with princes - the nurgle one in particular could chew straight through a knight or wraightknight in a single round for less than the cost of a power fist.

 

Dimensional Key - 12" bubble of difficult/dangerous terrain and a table-wide locator beacon for chump change? No.

 

Axe of Endless bloodlust - eeehh... Is this a daemon weapon too?

 

Allure of Slaanesh - Is there some kind of roll to hit on this, phase in which it has to be used? Or is it just mindshackle scarabs with a 12" range - you know, those things that got removed from the necron dex for very good reason.

 

Marks - sneaking in under the radar, 2pts per model for +1 toughness.

 

 

-----Special Rules-----

 

Are these all free?

Just off the bat, aren't you valuing T5 FNP(5+) chaos marines as a point cheaper than a generic FNP(6+) Iron Hands marine here?

To say nothing of the heaps of bonus psychic levels - tzeentch seems to have been getting buffs out of proportion to the other factions throughout.

 

 

-----Psychic Powers-----

Not had a look at them

 

 

 

 

 

Closing thoughts:

 

Just for a moment, try to imagine playing an entire army of fearless relentless space marines carrying stormshields and multi-shot ignores cover/AP3/grav weapons for 18pts each. We are talking 60 of these guys and two ML4 flying daemon princes with 20 warp charges a turn at under 1500pts ...

[Teetengee]

Our "wheel" is a damned square, Skallagoose.  It isn't just broken, it's fudamentally flawed in its design - it does not and has not and will not turn.  The entire point of homebrew projects like this is to reinvent that wheel.

Well, my intent with this project at first was to still have it fit within the context of something that looks like a space marine list and that fits within the current design scheme. I eventually plan to do a more radical reimagining project, but that wasn't my point here.

 

That being said, Skallagoose's intent may be different. Skall?

[Skallagoose]

 

Closing thoughts:

 

Just for a moment, try to imagine playing an entire army of fearless relentless space marines carrying stormshields and multi-shot ignores cover/AP3/grav weapons for 18pts each. We are talking 60 of these guys and two ML4 flying daemon princes with 20 warp charges a turn at under 1500pts ...

 

Gonna update my earlier post- All your points are VERY valid; and i really think i need to increase points, reduce invul saves, and so fourth- more level headed stuff

 

 

Our "wheel" is a damned square, Skallagoose.  It isn't just broken, it's fudamentally flawed in its design - it does not and has not and will not turn.  The entire point of homebrew projects like this is to reinvent that wheel.

Well, my intent with this project at first was to still have it fit within the context of something that looks like a space marine list and that fits within the current design scheme. I eventually plan to do a more radical reimagining project, but that wasn't my point here.

 

That being said, Skallagoose's intent may be different. Skall?

 

 

My intent was to make a reasonable codex that mirrors current codex, combined with recent rumors and easy to convert models. The cult elites are all pulled from either rumors OR warhammer fantasy line brought over. Its sort of (realistic) wish-listing, and sort of "HEY GW! IF YOU'RE ON THESE FORUMS LOOK AT THIS FOR IDEAS!!!" 

[Sception]

GW is not on these forums, and if they were then they couldn't pull any ideas they happened to see due to copyright concerns.