++From Hatred We Were Born, Creation of a 7.5 Chaos Codex++

[Teetengee]

the impaler was added as a weapon to forgefiends and helbrutes, seemed to be sufficient for using the models

[Khornestar]

Ah I missed that option, gotcha. I'd probably go with a Daemonfiend every time, given the options.

 

Out of curiosity, why did you add the line limiting the number of times a model can be shot by an impaler?

[Teetengee]

Because I gave them to units, and chained forced movement could cause serious nonsense that I don't think would promote good game play, at least not on something so easy to get off and reliable to build around.

[darkseren1ty]

I was going through the rules.. While I get the logic behind most of the choices, it seems faaar too cluttered, complicated and unwieldy for me to ever consider using.

 

Maybe it's time to consolidate the rules and start simplifying a bit?

[Teetengee]

I was going through the rules.. While I get the logic behind most of the choices, it seems faaar too cluttered, complicated and unwieldy for me to ever consider using.

 

Maybe it's time to consolidate the rules and start simplifying a bit?

On the one hand, that has ever been the fear and problem of chaos, the faction itself is a nightmare of complexity, and in that sense I agree that simplification should be the goal.

On the other hand, most armies have grown very complex in recent years.

On the third hand (CHAOS!!!!), I feel that any attempt to really clamp down on the complexity will strip too much from what makes chaos chaos, the armies of chaos aren't as simple and streamlines as imperial marines, and any ruleset that represents them even remotely well will by necessity reflect that.

 

Also, once it is more set in stone, I will start writing How to use this codex type stuff, including for example tokens for tzeentch rerolls and other aspects of units that need to be remembered.

[Teetengee]

Added a clause to the Warp Legacy rule to allow for allied detachments similar to the chapter tactics rule:
Allied Detachments with a different Warp Legacy from your Warlord count as a different faction for the Allied Detachment restriction.

 

Reduced the cost of Daemonblades (but not darkblades or related weapons) on single wound models, so that they become a legitimate budget choice)

 

Reduced the cost of Aura of Dark Glory for single wound models

[Teetengee]

Switched Blood Tithe in the khorne dex to only trigger off of non-vehicle deaths.

[Teetengee]

Scholars and Madmen (Tzeentch Dex) is up, although there is a lot missing or unfinished:
Rubric Terminators
all the Daemons,

Most of the Special Characters
potentially a mutations upgrades list

also the summaries are not even looked at yet, formations need to be done, altar needs to be reviewed, wargear lists (psychic only wargear???), relics, etc

plus there is a bunch of stuff that has rules that can't/shouldn't be taken but is still there until I complete the modifications

[RazakelXIII]

Just skimmed over this and I really like what you're doing with it. I totally agree that Chaos, as represented in the fluff, requires a degree of complexity that other armies simply don't have, which I think is why GW has struggled so hard to deal with the faction since 3.5. I tried to make up a list of fluffy amendments to the 6e book almost immediately after it was released, but I gave up after a while because there was just so much that needed to be added or fixed. I think I still have it saved somewhere if you'd like to look at it for ideas. Haven't had a chance to look over everything in detail yet and unfortunately I don't really have much of a group to test this with at the moment, but as a Word Bearer, I can tell you that I especially appreciate the Black Chaplain upgrade. I did notice an extremely minor RAW issue (that nobody in their right mind would argue over, but still): under the unit entry for Havocs, there are two uses of "Chaos Space Marine" that should probably be replaced with "Havoc."

Anyway, looking forward to looking through these in more detail and seeing what you do with the Nurgle and Slaanesh rules.

[Teetengee]

Thank you, and I would love to see them if you can find those rules you were working on.

[Teetengee]

Typo fixed:
also, Tzeentch Dex has all of its nonspecial character units now.

Still need to do the rest of the relics, any other futsing with the wargear, the Coruscating Myriad detachment, special characters, and cleanup

Plus, a bunch of the links appear to have broken in the Khorne dex (and were never really fixed in the tzeentch dex), so that needs to be done too.

[Khornestar]

Checking out the Tzeentch book right now.

 

Some initial thoughts:

 

1.) The psyker stuff for Tzeentch-marked units seems strange to me. Why prohibit a ML1 psyker from rolling on Biomancy, Telekinesis, and Telepathy?

 

2.) Pink Horrors: Unit size is halved with a 5 point increase. Bifurcate is an interesting rule, but I dunno if the trade-off is worth it. 

 

3.) Tzeentch Cultists: Awesome. Mark of Tzeentch really makes these guys shine, IMO. Increased Leadership, re-roll a die for charge range if necessary. Scouts or Mutants upgrade would both be sweet, as well as any of the icons. So solid, damn.

 

4.)  Rubricae: I dunno. They aren't bad, just don't think they're a unit I'd use. 2 wounds is cool, but losing the 4++ is tough. I think it's situational whether I'd rather have a unit of Tzeentch Marines or the Rubricae. For Rubric vs. loyalist marine action they could be pretty swell when catching fools out of cover. Maybe I'm missing something about them? 

 

5.) Rubric Terminators: 160 points for 3 models is pretty expensive, but with 2 wounds, Terminator armor, and a Deep Strike + Bolt of Change combo it may work out.

 

6.) I really like all the opportunities for psychic shenanigans possible in this book. The points will really add up, but then again Daemonology is always possible for adding new units onto the table. The Tzeentch Discipline is also very good. I like the options for attack, buffing, and debuffing.

[Teetengee]

Thanks for the input.
1. Restricting the level 1 Tzeentch Psykers was more about not giving the army too much flexibility, rather than any fluff balancing reason.

2. Since each model pops out another 2 wounds of model when it died, I only kind of halved their size.

3. Glad you like them.

4. I figured they serve a niche purpose, deleting MEQ, but if you run them in cover they become significantly more effective. They are expensive and powerful, but difficult to use just right, (JUST AS PLANNNNNNNNNNED!!!)

5.yeah 160 pts for ML1 5 wounds of terminator seems about right to me, but costing cult terminators is hard

6. Keep in mind I am writing these with an altered Daemonology lore in mind (see first post) which doesn't allow for the creation of new units. However, the idea is that the tzeentch dex (and perhaps all the cult dexes to one extent or another) are heavily themed and perhaps not best used as standalones. That being said, all the random in the tzeentch dex makes it both potentially very powerful and potentially very dangerous.

Tzeentch doubles down on my design ethos for chaos, every thing you take must have a purpose, and it should be very dangerous but have a small tendency to backfire. It should be devastating if you plan just right, but make a mistake and everything can go wrong quickly.

Also, it looks like drive is down right now, so I can't access/edit stuff at the moment.

[Teetengee]

Added a psyker dread option (no units of psyker dreads though) to the dreads, plus gave out access to inferno bolts to a few vehicles and Warpflame/Soulblaze to impact hits. All tzeentch book.

[Khornestar]

Awesome! That's something I wanted to see for a long time other than the smelly loyalist stuff.

[Teetengee]

tzeentch relics up

[Teetengee]

tzeentch dex relics updated and special characters added
Does anyone know what Gallus Herodicus is armed with canonically? I gave him a power maul and combi-melta, but  would love to know if he has anything special.

Also, if someone could take a look at Aetaos'rau'keres to make sure it seems reasonable, that would be fantastic.

[Khornestar]

Considering he's 999 points, I'd say he's reasonable. Not my cup of tea, would never take him. 999 points for a chance to lose half of my own army is silly. I realize it's not a rule you came up with, but I've had my fill of randomness with everything else.

 

*edit*

Gallus, on the other hand, is awesome. I'd love to take him with some havocs or rapier batteries or something.

[Teetengee]

Glad you like him.
Also, what rule are you referring to for Aetaos?

[Khornestar]

The leadership test for the barrage. Also, I dislike his jealousy rule that forces him to shoot at units in his own army. Just over all thumbs down to that thing. Undoubtedly, he's strong, but not my thing.

[Teetengee]

The leadership test for the barrage. Also, I dislike his jealousy rule that forces him to shoot at units in his own army. Just over all thumbs down to that thing. Undoubtedly, he's strong, but not my thing.

Ok. I think I will leave him as is, because although I agree he probably isn't my thing (more the 999 points on one model issue, than anything else) the other abilities seem to be quite fitting to his fluff.

[Teetengee]

Tzeentch Coruscating Myriad detachment is up.

[Teetengee]

Summary up for Tzeentch Dex

Still need to do plenty of playtesting and proofreading of course, but it is now mostly functional I hope.

Also, I should probably add all the psychic powers and random charts to the summary tables, but I am just not there yet.

Additionally, if anyone is up for helping check the links are functional, that would be great. I will check it at some point in the future, but haven't had a chance to make sure I didn't break anything by accident while doing the editing.

[Carrack]

I'm still looking through it, I liked all of the hq choices. The Tzentch psyker discipline looks powerful, but then it really should be since it's such an integral part of how the army should be played. One minor thing I noticed was the the VOTLW upgrade on the CSM maybe should be cost adjusted from your original codex, because they are not really benefitting from +1 LD with their Mark bonuses.

[Teetengee]

the cost of the +1ws is basically the only relevant thing, since I assumed anyone that is taking vets is probably already marked and thus fearless, but yeah, I will consider it.