Ahriman: Unchanged announced

[hopkins]

Just finished it, and I'm scratching my head, with more questions than answers

[b1soul]

So could someone briefly summarise the main plot points of the series. If good, might actually get into it

[Jaymz]

Just finished it, and I'm scratching my head, with more questions than answers

You're not alone brother! It seems like they dumped a clown car full of characters into this book whose motivations aren't really explained in the preceding novels. Maybe reading the short stories would fill in some of the gaps, I'm sure someone more knowledgable then me could shed some light on this.

 

So could someone briefly summarise the main plot points of the series. If good, might actually get into it

I won't get into the story (I'd recommend lexicanum for that, mind out for spoilers) suffice to say that it's defiantly worth reading and would recommend waiting for the omnibus as it appears that you need to read the short stories as well as the novels (I could be wrong on that).

[Kol Saresk]

It actually made sense to me. The "new" characters were already there, it's just that most of them were simply referred to as "the Circle" in the second book and were not given names until the third book, with the exception of Ctesias, who apparently has a whole slew of short stories in between the first and second books.

[Jaymz]

It's good to know there's background on ctesias in the shorts, im struggling to think of the role he played in exile or sorcerer.

 

Looks like the omnibus is out already, just not on IBooks. Hindsight being 20 20 I should have bought the Ahriman ebundle from black library rather then just buying unchanged by itself (I was wondering why unchanged was so cheap). Overall it's been an excellent series and hopefully they release a fancy paper version of the whole thing in a shiny case, would defiantly spend the dollars on that.

 

Side note: In the iBook store the book Ahriman exodus has the GW logo on the bottom right hand corner, it's really shoe horned on there looks like a total afterthought and or ip/branding thing. What's up with that?

 

The logo doesn't appear on other books of the series, only on unchanged and exodus.

[Kol Saresk]

Because they're newer. It's just part of the ebook copyrighting bit is all.

 

Yeah, Ctesias was not in Exile, the first book and in Sorcerer, he was just an unnamed character. If you recall, there was constant mention of "the Circle" being a group of Thousand Sons as an advisor type group for Ahriman. In the second book, Sanakht and Ignis were the only members of the group that were named. The rest were just called "the Circle". So he was there, it just takes the short stories and novellas that happened between the first two books to realize he was there.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Kol Saresk

[daveNYC]

How much Just As Planned is there in this one?  I liked the first two well enough, they just had twists towards the ends that came off as some Deus Ex actions since they hadn't even been hinted at earlier.  I don't mind doing the 'what you thought was wrong' thing, but I don't like it when there's nothing the reader gets to notice that the twist is being setup.  Makes the whole thing feel cheap.

[Kol Saresk]

Did we read the same novel? Because the twist wasn't introduced until almost the end of the novel and even then, it didn't work out the way it was presented. What all with the

fact that even after the Rubric was altered and all the fragments of Magnus are suppised to have been reassembled into one whole, you still have the Crimson King and the Father remaining. And if the Rubric worked the way it was supposed to, then not only the Father was supposed to become the controlling fragment, but the fact he is still separate either means he wasn't a fragment of Magnus, or something went wrong.

 

Honestly, if you want to complain about something,

I'd complain about the whole Iobel thing since it seems to have absolutely no bearing on the story other than showing how screwed up in the head Ahriman is.

[hopkins]

Yeah, the whole fragments thing in Ahriman's mind, or the labyrinth, just totally confused me

Was it really an aspect of Magnus, a projection of Ahriman's subconscious, Amon or Astraeos/daemon thing

 

I really need a Cliffs Notes for this book

[Kol Saresk]

The Father wasn't part of Ahriman's mind. Remember, Knekku talked with it and it knew the Athenaeum was being used by Magnus to pervert the second Rubric. Then again, Iobel talked to the Crimson King now that I think about it so who knows.

I think the iobel storyline was supposed to be some sort of literal metaphor of how Ahriman accepted that he would become a living sacrifice for the second Rubric.

[Thousand Eyes]

I've not read it yet, just hoping there is more Ignis in it.

[Augustus]

I read it and my brain, albeit small, still hurts.

[HeritorA]

More questions indeed but some answers we had. First - Crimson king would be shattered before the Rubric. First step on that road will happen in the next Graham McNeil HH novel 'Crimson KIng'. So - no secrets here. Ignis a long ago was marked for fiery death at the 2nd Black Crusade in Abby's team. That why he was spared. Rubric working just in one specific case - is not because Knekku took Ahriman place - but because it was a sardonic joke of Tzeentch. To aggravate Ahriman even more and show him some hope - hope that would lead him into the 41st millennium. Whatever Ahriman will do in the future is futile. All he touch turns to ash, all his actions are prearranged, all his desicions are already made for him. And only one person understood that in the end - Astraeos :) 

[TheHairySorcerer20]

I've read it and IMO it's my favourite of the 3. It summarises everything from what I've read and understood. It all makes sense. All though what bugs me to this day is what happened to the silver in his hearts? Nobody else seems bothered by that.. Still. I talked to john French on facebook and we just talked about the plot. Fingers crossed for another book in tge future!!

[Kol Saresk]

What do you mean? The Rubric removed it when Knekku took his place as sacrifice because that replacement forced Ahriman to become a subject to the new Rubric, rather than its controller.

[HeritorA]

Tzeentch trick with Isidorus was exactly that - a trick. Knekku or Ahriman doesn't mean anything

[Kol Saresk]

Tzeentch trick with Isidorus was exactly that - a trick. Knekku or Ahriman doesn't mean anything

I feel like there is context missing. care to explain?

 

EDIT: Okay, I think I understand. I was replying to Hairy Sorcerer's post about the silver, not your post about how you believe Isidorua was a cosmic joke.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Kol Saresk

[HeritorA]

I see Kol Saresk

ty for clarification  Anyway it was some good trilogy, one of the best from BL. especially comparing to a lot of mediocre stuff in the last 5 years 

[HeritorA]

Not exactly  Apothecary Vaddon - The second rubric was supposed to work by sacrificing (as I understand it) both Magnus and Ahriman. Not so - only one of them, but in the end it was a cosmic joke of Tzeentch.

It was not sabotaged by 3 individuals - but just by one with a ton of different personalities. Even poor Astraeos was a projection of one such personality shard.  

 

About Magnus being shattered - that would happen in the next HH novel 'Crimson King' by Graham McNeil

[Kol Saresk]

Not exactly. The second Rubric was just supposed to accomplish what the first Rubric failed to do, although it had to be a completely different spell because there were different starting points and different results were required to achieve the same goal. The only sacrifice was that whoever served as the control point of the Rubric would have to give their life in exchange.

 

What you run into is that the Crimson King told Ionel he made the Rubric a dud that would pull him from the Labyrinth while the Father is telling Knekku that the second Rubric was altered so it would take all of the remaining fragments of Magnus and force them back into one whole, although the sacrifics could choose shich fragment would become the controlling personality.

 

What you run into is that none of the above is true. From what we saw of Ahriman's point of view, the Rubric would allow the user to do anything they wanted to, at the cost of their life. Problem was that Knekku replaced Ahriman before he could finish, so the only Son who was restored was Isidorius, who already had a bit of his identity reemerging from Ahriman's constant experiments on him. The Crimson King was brought out of the Labyrinth by Ctesias and it is obvious that Knekku didn't use the Rubric to unite the fragments since the Daemon and the Father didn't unite with the Crimson King.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say that Knekku only used the Rubric to keep the Legion as it was after the first Rubric was used. I say this because Ahriman was healed and the silver removed from his body. Or maybe Knekku turned it into a dud by wasting all that power on healing Ahriman.

 

On a side note, I have the personal fan theory that the Father wasn't a fragmet of Magnus, but was rather a manifestation of Tzeentch himself. Reasons being 1.)He lied to Knekku about the Rubric freeing the Crimson King from the Labyrinth, 2.)in contrast to the Crimson King, the Father encouraged Iobel(who was a manifestation of Ahriman's self-doubt) to stop Ahriman from going through with the Rubric, something he ended up having to convince Knekku to do. All of these events help contribute to the hinted future where Ahriman becomes one of the more powerful servants of Tzesntch.

[HeritorA]

'What you run into is that the Crimson King told Ionel he made the Rubric a dud that would pull him from the Labyrinth while the Father is telling Knekku that the second Rubric was altered so it would take all of the remaining fragments of Magnus and force them back into one whole, although the sacrifics could choose shich fragment would become the controlling personality.'

 

- i think not so, cause then he expunged the shard from Astraeos and literally eat it - he got almost all of the missing shards. So that's an almost full Primarch now (maybe 90 % whole)

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, but supposedly the Rubric was supposed to do that. Instead we see Magnus himself doing it, just as we saw Ctesias summoning Magnus from the Labyrinth rather than the Rubric pulling him out. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors put out there and we're told a lot of things, but there is also just enough out there that we can get an idea of what did and did not happen.

[HeritorA]

Well that's the planet of Sorcerors for you, lol 

[Kol Saresk]

Exactly. To me, that's one of the strong suits to this book. When you first finish, you're just kind of left going "Wait, what? What? What?........... WHAT?" But then you go back and all the questions sort of begin to answer themselves, but in true 40K fashion, the answers are just vague enough that you can come up with any number of theories so long as they fit within the answers provided. Like the cosmic joke. Nothing concrete says that Isidorius was a result of the Rubric. So you could be exactly right that his resurrection was a present from Tzeentch that would help steer him towards his 40K incarnation.

[HeritorA]

And it is. Just imagine how Tzeentch was laugthing his ass! Plus in the end then he stopped the Changelling - that definitely was to create Isidorus and stear Ahriman on the right course! Being number 1 Tzeentch servant in W40K  willingly or not