General Discussion

[simison]

Well, I've used Cohort with regularlity, but I've never made it official, I think.

 

And you bring up a good point. There should be a tangible difference between titles to underline the differences between our 30k and 40k. My only question is, if the marines are broken down into Orders, how will our Inquisition be divided?

[~Drakzilla~]

Hmm...I mean, Ordo sounds similar but not exactly the same, so I don't know if that warrants a change.

 

As for Space Marine "Orders", wouldn't the implied ties to religion and crusaders make it even more fitting? Considering how even in 30k the Legions are embarked on the "Great Crusade", in 40k there are often crusading chapters, and not to mention how the term "chapter" is literally the word for a religious organization.

[Sigismund229]

Exercitii Astra? Just Exercitus for short. Given that the Codex (?) ks written by Kozja, I imagine he'd use more High Gothic terms.

 

No matter what they're called in Gothic, the Lions and their successors will call them Cothabanna or Warbands

Edited December 31, 2016 by Sigismund229

[~Drakzilla~]

I think for this case, a less complex term would be better. Nobody really knows what an Exercitus is (I'd wager in-universe and out) so it would be pretty confusing to use as the name for the basic group within the Astartes. That's why terms like "legion", "cadre", "host" are prevalent in the setting. It's easy for someone to understand that that is a group within a faction.

 

Also, not sure I'm sold on how "Exercitii of the Adeptus Astartes" or the "Warriors of Peace Execitus" sounds.

[Raktra]

Though I agree that Order does sound better in my ears, it's possibly too close to religion and crusaders. To be honest, I don't have an alternative.

Shepherds of "Eden". Think we passed the mark already on that one.

 

I'm more for Order than Cohort. Cohort sounds a bit... I dunno, scheme-y to me. Like a thieve's guild.

[Kelborn]

Happy new year, guys!

 

All the best for you and your beloved ones!

 

I'm eager to rock this year at your side!!!

 

And my vote for Orders as well. ^^

[Demus Ragnok]

When I hear(read) cohort I think close friend/associate.

 

When I hear (read) order I think closed fraternal organization.

[TheBlindPrimarch]

 

damn, more and more I find myself wishing my legion had been accepted into this universe

Sadly, we can't have every Lost Legion. Just wondering, do you see any potential for your guys to become a Successor Cohort to one of our Legions, or even a Chaos war band?

While I suppose it is possible for them to have come from one of the Legions, I'm not sure which one or how...they seem too different from any one legion.

 

And my vote is for Orders btw

[TheBlindPrimarch]

Oh, and happy new year even though I have a few more hours to go. (Can you believe I'm at work for new years?!)

[simison]

Oh, and happy new year even though I have a few more hours to go. (Can you believe I'm at work for new years?!)

 

Dang, no mercy eh?

 

Well, it's officially midnight here. Happy New Year's! May the world survive the coming year as it has survived the previous year.

[bluntblade]

It's already been 2017 for nearly 20hrs here. Not one backward step!

[Talonair]

I don't see anything wrong with Cohort, it's the appropriate step down from Legion, but if people are opposed why not Centuria?

[MikhalLeNoir]

 

 

damn, more and more I find myself wishing my legion had been accepted into this universe

 

Sadly, we can't have every Lost Legion. Just wondering, do you see any potential for your guys to become a Successor Cohort to one of our Legions, or even a Chaos war band?

While I suppose it is possible for them to have come from one of the Legions, I'm not sure which one or how...they seem too different from any one legion.

 

And my vote is for Orders btw

The blind theme points towards predators, and the knightly and honourable behaviour pointa to wardens of light or shepards of eden. Maybe a mix of both? Some experiment where genes from two legions were mixed to get a new one done? Does this happen in canon? I remeber back in 2nd edition that there were some mixed chapters but this could also be due to misinterpretation of the fluff at that time.

 

 

 

 

Funny sidenotr on the cohort topic: in germany the chapters are called "Orden" which retranslation means order, not chapter.

Edited January 1, 2017 by MikhalLeNoir

[Kelborn]

Rumor wise does the 13th or 21st founding contain mixed geneseed chapters.

 

So, why not?

A radical AdMec or Inqui member could have tried to create some demon hunters: pariah (WoL) and hunters (Preds) combined into loyal DHs

 

Got a mix of a classical Paladin with a more sinister way of fighting in mind.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Kelborn

[Chief Captain Redd]

Nope, you're right Mik; blended geneseed is still in the canon to this day and is part of the 21st or Cursed founding.

 

What if in the wording of the Treaty, as it's not really a martial codex persay, we simply had the wording be a limit 10,000. Since we don't have nearly the same standings as the canon loyalists I could see there being a bit more diversity; the descendents of my Iron Bears for instance could refer to themselves as Wartribes, like Wartribe of the Leviathans, or Wartribe of the Iron Hawks. Or another Legion's second foundings could be more classically Chapter or Demi-Legion.

 

Also thought point; since ours is not a manuscript of warfare but an agreement of arms with the Suzerainty; isn't effectively broken and voided by the War of the False Primarch?

[Sigismund229]

It's already been 2017 for nearly 20hrs here. Not one backward step!

I HAVE MADE MY GRAVE ON THIS WORLD! I SHALL EITHER TRIUMPH OR I SHALL DIE!

 

Ehem...sorry my Black Templar side got the better of me there

 

Redd makes a good point. While my vote would be to stay with Cohort if we choose to go with one term, why not each legion's descendents have their own term for them?

[Kelborn]

Maybe to avoid complications for those out there, who are no part of our team? The "normal" guys, you know. ;)

[Nomus Sardauk]

Happy New Year brothers! May M42.000 bring prosperity and success to you all! :D

 

...What? :huh:

[Chief Captain Redd]

Well we are a popular but very small altverse, so most of the people whom come upon the project won't be clueless as to the basis of what smaller Astartes forces are in general. Also it might create a quick system for finding or establishing lineage.

[Raktra]

 

 

 

damn, more and more I find myself wishing my legion had been accepted into this universe

 

Sadly, we can't have every Lost Legion. Just wondering, do you see any potential for your guys to become a Successor Cohort to one of our Legions, or even a Chaos war band?

While I suppose it is possible for them to have come from one of the Legions, I'm not sure which one or how...they seem too different from any one legion.

 

And my vote is for Orders btw

The blind theme points towards predators, and the knightly and honourable behaviour pointa to wardens of light or shepards of eden.

Could be Eden successors who blind themselves to further separate their identity from the 'serkers.

[Sigismund229]

Well we are a popular but very small altverse, so most of the people whom come upon the project won't be clueless as to the basis of what smaller Astartes forces are in general. Also it might create a quick system for finding or establishing lineage.

Although one problem that's just occurred to me is that that depends on the Cohort/Order in question knowing which legion their gene-seed is from. In the earlier foundings that shouldn't be too much of a problem nor in the case of a legion like the IB who I remember you saying wouldn't have many successors due to how Daerr'dd taught the legion. But for later foundings when the Cohort/Order don't know who their primarch is or when that primarch's identity has been delibirately obscured(as was the case with most 21st founding chapters in canon) it might be better to have a catch all term.

[Chief Captain Redd]

@Sigismund; True… alright my vote is for a catch all of Order.

[Sigismund229]

And on the subject of 21st founding style cohorts/orders, a mix of gene-seed that would be good for an Inquisition ally cohort/order á la Minotaurs or Exorcists could be Crimson Lions with Fire Keepers.

 

From the Lions they'd get unquestioning loyalty to the Imperium as well as the cc ferocity and physical benefits that come with their bring designed for boarding actions while from the Fire Keepers they'd get fanatical hatred of mutants and psykers. However, the Lions would despise them as "half-breeds" while the FK would, I imagine, take a dim view of the whole idea of mixed gene-seed, thus leaving them with no allies but the Inquisition.

[simison]

 

 

damn, more and more I find myself wishing my legion had been accepted into this universe

Sadly, we can't have every Lost Legion. Just wondering, do you see any potential for your guys to become a Successor Cohort to one of our Legions, or even a Chaos war band?

While I suppose it is possible for them to have come from one of the Legions, I'm not sure which one or how...they seem too different from any one legion.

 

And my vote is for Orders btw

 

 

Never underestimate the power of mad science. All it takes is an accident, a magos getting a little too experimental, or some Chaos shenanigans to irrevocably change a gene-seed into a new direction.

 

My own Wardens is supposed to be a melting pot of sorts for different cultures and could easily lend itself to a diverse range of successors.

 

I spoke with my father last night to see if we could come up with any alternatives to Order. The best we could come up with were Watch and Brotherhood. Brotherhood is obviously taken as the title of our project and the divisions of the Godslayer legion. Watch doesn't quite roll off the tongue, at least in English, and doesn't quite grasp the diverse nature of the successors since some are defensive and some are continuing the crusade. So, I think Watch can become a nickname for the defensive Successors, but Order is better for a more general term.

 

As for the nature of successor Orders, I agree that there can be some mix-and-match involved as time goes on. It will be Alexandros' intent to reabsorb the Loyalist elements of the Traitor legions where he can, so, like how we all suspect the Blood Ravens to be Loyalist Thousand Sons, most legions will have some representation among the Orders with maybe one or two exceptions. Combine that with how records become harder to maintain as we near the End Times, and all sorts of possibilities open before us. 

 

While I'm indulging the post-Insurrection talk, I will affirm that we will have our own Cursed Founding though it may not be the 21st per se. One would naturally think that having a minimum requirement for 10,000 marines as opposed to 1,000 marines would reduce the number of foundings and spread them out more among the centuries. However, given what we know of in the Beast Arises, there is an Imperium and a Suzerainty, and with Hectarion as the Warmaster for quite some time after the Insurrection, I see a rapid effort to increase the size of space marine forces. 

 

So, I foresee several waves of foundings in M31 and M32, until Hectarion disappears/dies/steps aside. At the same time, Kozja and Jade suffer their respective tragedies, which leads to a detente between the Imperium and Suzerainty. This leads to a slowing down of space marine recruitment, that periodically jumps up with the various threats over the 10,000 years, such as Black Crusades and so on. So, over history, you see a rapid number of foundings, a slowdown, and then another period or rapid recruitment. 

[Sigismund229]

As for the nature of successor Orders, I agree that there can be some mix-and-match involved as time goes on. It will be Alexandros' intent to reabsorb the Loyalist elements of the Traitor legions where he can, so, like how we all suspect the Blood Ravens to be Loyalist Thousand Sons, most legions will have some representation among the Orders with maybe one or two exceptions. Combine that with how records become harder to maintain as we near the End Times, and all sorts of possibilities open before us. 

 

 

 

Hectarion would be against the loyalists from traitor legions forming any successor cohorts. His reasoning would be that, while the individual marines turned their backs on their legions in order to stay loyal to the Imperium, the gene-seed they carry is "weak". In the vast majority of cases, marines carrying that same gene-seed turned traitor and so while the individual marines are loyal, their gene-seed is tainted. He just wouldn't want to take the risk that the Orders descended from traitor loyalists might carry an inherent weakness when it comes to dealing with the warp. For the same reason, he'd probably try and limit the number of successors sired by the Dune Serpents(could be a cause for some friction post Insurrection). 

 

 

While I'm indulging the post-Insurrection talk, I will affirm that we will have our own Cursed Founding though it may not be the 21st per se. One would naturally think that having a minimum requirement for 10,000 marines as opposed to 1,000 marines would reduce the number of foundings and spread them out more among the centuries. However, given what we know of in the Beast Arises, there is an Imperium and a Suzerainty, and with Hectarion as the Warmaster for quite some time after the Insurrection, I see a rapid effort to increase the size of space marine forces. 

 

So, I foresee several waves of foundings in M31 and M32, until Hectarion disappears/dies/steps aside. At the same time, Kozja and Jade suffer their respective tragedies, which leads to a detente between the Imperium and Suzerainty. This leads to a slowing down of space marine recruitment, that periodically jumps up with the various threats over the 10,000 years, such as Black Crusades and so on. So, over history, you see a rapid number of foundings, a slowdown, and then another period or rapid recruitment. 

 

As a side note, I agree that Hectarion would probably push for several foundings after the Treaty which introduces the Orders. However, he'd probably put the emphasis on the new Orders being created using the gene-seed of more aggressive legions given the role they'll be obliged to take on in the aftermath of the Insurrection.