[HH1.0] Mechanicum Tactica

[Caillum]

There's only a little bit of discussion about the Mechanicum on the forum, so thought we should start a dedicated Tactica thread! With the Red Book starting to make it's way into our hands now, it is the perfect time to discuss what they can do, both on their own and as Allies.

 

Major changes are listed here:

 

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/09/mechanicum-taghmata-codex-changes.html

 

As expected, the Castellax increased in price - they were a bit too cheap before, but they're still worth it. Ordinator getting Armourbane is nice! They've allowed the Magos Dominus to join Monstrous Creature units, with some caveats. Mechanicum Land Raiders have changed massively - I expect a model to be released for the "Macroarid Explorator", and pity anyone who has to change their weapon-loadouts now.

 

Edit: this is all conjecture until we have the book in hand, but it seems legit.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Caillum

[Slips]

Castellax price increase was to be expected. They were a bit too points efficient especially when coupled with a Praevian thus gaining Legion Astartes Rules, such as RG Praevian and Castellax gaining Infiltrate and fleet.

 

My main draw for the Admech is Big Stompy Robots.

 

And while you can reasonably fit 5+ Thanatars into a 2.5k Lists (Which I plan on doing :p), My main question would be: How to make best use of a Domitar?

 

Do you take the one and give it Paragon Of Metal, like I plan on doing would have T7, 4W, IWND, +D3 HoW, Rampage and 4 attacks base with S10 Concussive at I3.

 

Or, do you take them in Squads of 3+? At 175 Each before upgrades, they aren't cheap and being CC Focused Beasts with only a Missile Launcher (at BS3 with a Flakk Missile option) means the more you pump into them, the more they're likely to become Fire Magnets and the Larger their Footprint becomes too (We have no model but I'm assuming Castellax Size).

 

To me, they're meant to hunt other MCs -- admech or otherwise -- or small, Elite Units.

 

Also: Enhanced Targeting Array: Always Take it where possible or on a unit-per-unit basis?

 

I'd say for units like Thanatars, +1BS and -1Cover (Which they have to re-roll if successful due to Plasma Wave) is worth it every time due to its S8 Ap2 Ordnance 1 Barrage Large Blast, Plasma Mortar Shot.

 

Next: Thallax.

 

Since I'm planning on Thagmata Omnissiah (unless I get the Red Admech Book and makes Legio Cybernetica a bit more worthwhile), Gotta take these or Adsecularis as troops. And I prefer the Stompy Robots :P

 

Since they're Jetpack Troops which gun would be the best option to go with their Lightning Guns? I'm of the mind that the Phased Plasma-Fusil would be the best choice due to similar-ish range, S6 Ap3 and Salvo 2/3.

 

I'm planning on running the following:

 

Now, Granted, this was made prior to the points adjustments of the Admech Redbook so some shifting will have to occur.

Hidden Content

+++ 2500 Super Stompy Robots (2495pts) +++

 

++ Mechanicum: Taghmata Omnissiah (Age of Darkness) (2495pts) ++

 

+ HQ (470pts) +

 

Magos Dominus (135pts) [Abeyant, Augury Scanner, Conversion Beamer, Cyber-familiar]

 

Magos Prime (335pts) [Abeyant, Archmagos Prime, Augury Scanner, Chainfist, Cortica Primus, Cyber-familiar, Djinn-skein, Mastercraft a single weapon, Myrmidax, Paragon Blade, Phased Plasma-fusil, Phased Plasma-fusil, Rad Grenades]

 

+ Troops (500pts) +

 

Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple (210pts)

··Castellax [Darkfire Cannon]

··Castellax [Darkfire Cannon]

 

Thallax Cohort (145pts) [Phased-Plasma Fusil, 3x Thallax]

 

Thallax Cohort (145pts) [Phased-Plasma Fusil, 3x Thallax]

 

+ Elites (215pts) +

 

Domitar Class Battle-automata Maniple (215pts) [Domitar Class Battle-automata, Frag Grenades, Paragon of Metal]

 

+ Heavy Support (1310pts) +

 

Thanatar Class Siege-automata Maniple (510pts) [Enhanced Targeting Array, 2x Thanatar]

 

Thanatar Class Siege-automata Maniple (510pts) [Enhanced Targeting Array, 2x Thanatar]

 

Thanatar-Cynis Class Siege-Automata Maniple (290pts) [Enhanced Targeting Array, Thanatar-Cynis Class Siege-Automata]

 

Created with BattleScribe

 

And while, yes, 300+ Points into an Archmagos is pretty silly, its my kind of silly :p

 

With the changes to the Magos' being able to join units of MC's I'd be able to park the Dominus in a unit of Thanatars in the backfield and just plink away with his Conversion Beamer while granting the 12" (no 24"?) Cortex Controller Bubble to them.

[Terminus]

The Castellax hike is serious, but puts them more in line with Kastellans. Always being able to fire 3 weapons means my Castellax will probably all sport double flamers. Poisoned rotor cannons for vorax is interesting. The Ursarax price hike makes no sense.

 

Changes to Dominus and Cybertheurgy is nice. It's now a fair option to just take one with minimal upgrades and stick him with some Castellax (or maybe even Vorax?). Did he get Independent Character or is the relic still useless?

Edited September 10, 2015 by Terminus

[Slips]

I give the relic to a Magos/Archmagos Prime since it has Independant Character.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Caillum]

The Contagium Mechanica works fine on the Prime. But the Cortica Primus is only of use on a Cybertheurgy user, ie. Magos Dominus. Though common sense should prevail in this situation anyway, I imagine he gets Independent Character now.

 

Poisoned rotor cannons on Vorax is interesting for horde-thinning. But 10 points (plus 10 from nerf) makes it pricey.

 

Hopefully we'll see Ursarax released soon. They are very, very good in combat with power fists, so the price-hike isn't that big a surprise to me. Tough 5, FnP, Stubborn Ld 8, 4 Strength 10 AP 2 attacks on the charge each, plus all the Jump Infantry benefits? Money.

 

I think that Legio Cybernetica are going to get a bit of a boost from the updates:

- Castellax will still be a solid Troops choice. Enhanced Targeting Arrays are auto-include with Darkfire or Multi-melta. 2 flamers and a Mauler makes an aggressive forward unit, and definitely benefits from shooting 3 weapons now.

- Slips, I reckon a single Paragon of Metal Domitar sounds good! Bit of a Wild Card for the force. And spending big on your Archmagos is the only way to go. :)

- Enhanced Targeting Arrays on Thanatar work fine. But being a Blast already the BS boost might not be necessary, and -1 to cover saves is possibly overkill with the forced re-roll. 15 points is not much though!

[Brofist]

I'm still waiting for my red book to come in the mail, but my first natural question is which Castellax rules are now used for LACAL? There now different rules in that army list with different point values.

 

I'm also interested to see what makes Legio Cybernetica worth using now that a cortex unit doesn't score. The ability for a Magos to join up with castellax might be well paired with a Praevian. Especially now that they have additional weapon options.

[Slips]

Yeah, thought so.

The BS5, while not all that necessary does help mitigate larger Scatters. The -1Cover wont see that much use vs other 30k Armies but, if you're playing vs 40k, say, Ravenwing or Tyranids, Its downright mean and pretty necessary.

 

As for Ursarax, they're good but do they trump a Domitar? The Domitar is also pumping out an Equivalent amount of S10 Hits with their Grav Hammers and strike at I3 with concussive meaning while they wont go first in the first rounds of CC, they sure as hell are later on. They also have a pretty meh Missile Launcher, to be fair, but it does let them get shots down range as they move up. Couple that with D3 Hammer of Wrath hits at S7 and they can be pretty brutal.

 

I almost feel that, while both are the CC Beast Automata, they occupy pretty different roles. One is clearly the Monster Hunter, the other the Infantry.

 

For Castellax, if you want to tool them up, I think that Legio Cybernetica will +/- be the only way to field them en masse since they are compulsory selections there meaning no Thallax or Adsecularis Tax meaning more points to spend on them.

 

Otherwise, paying upwards of 140pts per Darkfire + ETA Castellax is pretty hard to swallow.

 

Also, if taking a Thanatar Horde do you feel that maximizing a Squad is better or Minimum Squad Size? Max Size means more Slots open to take other Stuff vs Min Size letting you shoot at different Targets.

 

Additionally, Archmagos Prime: Which order of High Techno-Arcana do you feel is the most  generally useful? I personally prefer Myrmidax or Malagra.

[Terminus]

The Contagium Mechanica works fine on the Prime. But the Cortica Primus is only of use on a Cybertheurgy user, ie. Magos Dominus. Though common sense should prevail in this situation anyway, I imagine he gets Independent Character now.

Poisoned rotor cannons on Vorax is interesting for horde-thinning. But 10 points (plus 10 from nerf) makes it pricey.

Hopefully we'll see Ursarax released soon. They are very, very good in combat with power fists, so the price-hike isn't that big a surprise to me. Tough 5, FnP, Stubborn Ld 8, 4 Strength 10 AP 2 attacks on the charge each, plus all the Jump Infantry benefits? Money.

I think that Legio Cybernetica are going to get a bit of a boost from the updates:

- Castellax will still be a solid Troops choice. Enhanced Targeting Arrays are auto-include with Darkfire or Multi-melta. 2 flamers and a Mauler makes an aggressive forward unit, and definitely benefits from shooting 3 weapons now.

- Slips, I reckon a single Paragon of Metal Domitar sounds good! Bit of a Wild Card for the force. And spending big on your Archmagos is the only way to go. :)

- Enhanced Targeting Arrays on Thanatar work fine. But being a Blast already the BS boost might not be necessary, and -1 to cover saves is possibly overkill with the forced re-roll. 15 points is not much though!

I read the Vorax changes as a buff (-10 points), so the poison is free. This opens up their options to not only hunt hordes but go after monstrous creatures too (and they now get an extra base attack with the clarification on power blades). It may actually make sense to take several and leave most with lightning guns to save points. With the hike on Castellax and Ursarax, I feel they are one of the more cost effective assault units in the list. If only they had dunestrider.

 

I've proxied Ursarax a couple of times and not being able to sweep is not great.

 

Speaking of assault and power blades, are they a worthwhile option now for Castellax? Power blades and 2 flamers is 125 points, 140 with targetting array. Darkfire/Array is also 140. Basically same as a Kastellan with upgrades.

 

Regarding ETA on thanatar, there is no such thing as overkill. Re-rolls are good, -1 to cover saves is good, together thry are a step away from ignoring cover altogether. Clutch if you ever face 2+ cover.

 

Regarding High-Arcana, I like the Malaghra, although it technically has the highest buy in. Myrmidax is nasty tanking for a unit of Destructors.

[helterskelter]

Does this make Vorax more viable with a praevian now?

[Terminus]

I'm just glad cybertheurgy is not crap anymore. Castellax with 7 attacks each on the charge? Yum.

[Caillum]

Totally read Vorax as plus 10 points, not minus. That's pretty good then, especially as they're normally

 

No sweeping advances from Lorica Thallax is something I missed - that does makes a difference. Mind you, Terminators can't sweep, and they're alright. Time will tell, but I think they could be a half-decent unit.

 

No scoring from Cyberntica Cortex... the first time I read that I just glazed over it, but that could be a big disadvantage for Legio Cybernetica...

[depthcharge12]

Being able to take Ferrox thallax squads is now a thing, and sounds freakin' fun. And while they can't take a heavy weapon, I still feel that they'll make a good bodyguard unit for an archmagos.

 

Here comes the cheddar:

 

The Archmagos is no longer bound to take a "heavy weapon" or a jet pack, so now you can take a photon thruster AND a jet pack. Slap the Ordinator upgrade on him, and now you have an armorbane lance weapon :devil: Hell you could even take two plasma fusils and have 6 S6 armorbane shots, which ain't half bad.

 

The domitar seems to still stand in the shadow of Castellax because they're still so point heavy. Maybe run a squad of two of them with an attached magos for a crazy cc squad? I'd almost recommend taking the flak missiles on them considering the lack of AA in AdMech lists.

[Slips]

@terminus: I getcha, but wouldn't a PoM Domitar getting that Cyberthurgy buff be a more worthwhile Target? 

 

Re: Poisoned Vorax; It makes them not suck, yes. The thing that was mainly stopping them, I feel, from wider acceptance was that they were stuck with the pretty sucktastic Rotor Cannons. Now with Poisoned (I'm assuming 4+?) they actually can threaten things and since Rotor Cannons are Salvo 3/4, they can pump out some nasty firepower if taken in enough Numbers. Now, give the Poisoned Ammo option to Legions...

 

With the change to permit all automata to +/- shoot up to 3 Weapons per shooting phase helps a lot in that regard.

 

For the Domitar: Agree they might be a bit too pricey. 1ppm Flakk missiles is a nice boost though!

 

Ordinator now being Armorbane is a welcome change. Makes their Orbital Bombardment also have Armorbane, doesn't it?

 

Re: No Scoring if unit has a Cortex: Sucks, yeah, but actually gives Thallax a Place in Cybernetica Lists where they might've been ignored/swept under the rug otherwise.

[depthcharge12]

Yup ;) Ordinator barrage has armorbane too.

[Slips]

Hmmm, makes for an interesting choice to be allied into a Legion Army.

 

Take a Master of Signal (or two), Damocles Rhino, <compulsory HQ>, Possibly Primarch w/ OB or Stormbird w/ OB and Ordinator Magos.

 

TAKE AND FIRE ALL THE ORBITAL BOMBARDMENTS!

Edited September 10, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Reyner]

Hmmm, makes for an interesting choice to be allied into a Legion Army.

 

Take a Master of Signal (or two), Damocles Rhino, <compulsory HQ>, Possibly Primarch w/ OB or Stormbird w/ OB and Ordinator Magos.

 

TAKE AND FIRE ALL THE ORBITAL BOMBARDMENTS!

So much boom. 

[Slips]

ALL DAT BOOM BOOM

[Terminus]

@Slipstreams: Magos is confirmed to be IC, so relic works, so if I'm using cybertheurgy, it's to add 6 attacks to a Castellax/Vorax maniple.

 

In addition to not being able to sweep, Ursarax are very vulnerable to being swept. Ld8 is 28% chance of failure and their initiative means they aren't running from much.

 

I also am happy to see Ferox come back, but the lack of heavy weapon is a shame. I've liked plasma fusils on them since it basically doubled their firepower, and AP3 and -2 cover is a nice combo. Using their jetpacks to stay out of engagement range has worked nicely, and their stock has gone up now that they and adsecularis are the only troops that can score (of course, best scorer is still the dedicated troop triaros). If you can indeed take a photon thruster and jetpack, that Ordinatus may make for a nice HQ alternative to bare-bone/beamer magos or decked out archmagos. I'd skip on abeyant to make him smaller, and use the jet pack to pop in and out of LOS blocking terrain.

 

My go-to HQ had been a Malaghra tank with graviton imploder, leading a mini-death star of Destructors with imploders/thrusters. This is a very scary unit. Their shooting kills everything, and no elite unit wants any part of charging them because they will end up blind, concussed and ready for fisting. Their only weakness is range if the Triaros gets popped off the bat or being tied down by giant conscript blobs and the like.

 

The addition of rad furnace is interesting, because it means you can build a doom-Magos that drops enemy toughness by 2. Scyllax are more appealing with +1 attack too.

 

I don't think Vorax need a Praevian, they already have Fleet and Scout. But yeah, 8 poison shots plus irrad cleanser and 3 base S6 AP2 attacks at initiative 4, for 85 points, is not bad at all now that a double-flamer castellax is 115.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Terminus

[Slips]

If you're playing RG, a Praevian with a 3+ Sized squad of vorax would be pretty scary. While the LA:RG Fleet is lost on them, they do gain Infiltrate. Couple that with scout and you can get REALLY Close, really fast and with Fleshbane Flamers and Poisoned Rotor Cannons, they're bound to do damage.

 

As is, they're definitely a more appealing choice.

 

Additionaly, how would each of you go about gearing up your Macroid Explorators (Admech LR)? Go full bore with Irradiation Engine Sponsons and Graviton Imploder/TL Rad Cleanser on top?

 

Or, go Conversion Beamer & Culverins/other?

[Slips]

For the Silly Orbital Bombardment FOR DAAYYYYSSS Idea, I'd almost prefer a Stormbird. While it would cost upwards of 1k for it, its OB are unlimited in number and are S:D. Sure, its full scatter, but hey. Unless you cant spend 1k on such a thing then Perturabo or Horus would be good alternatives.

 

And, unless I'm wrong, you could do similar with a pure Admech Force using 3 Ordinator Archmagi in the same list.

[1ncarnadine]

For your elite slots in virtually any force, I'm having trouble seeing any reason not to run at least one as Secutors with Graviton guns loaded into a Triaros. Puts out at least 6 haywire shots off a transported relentless platform at 340 points for the min squad size + triaros (sales of this thing are going to go way up now btw). Answers Spartans, while also being an obnoxious vehicle with frontal AV14 and a flare shield.

 

In comparison, the Domitar still kind of feel like the list's answer to a question no one ever asked... 

[helterskelter]

I may take some Vorax for my NL. backing up the terror squads with poisoned rotor shots some bodies gonna hit the floor. Hopefully.

[depthcharge12]

For your elite slots in virtually any force, I'm having trouble seeing any reason not to run at least one as Secutors with Graviton guns loaded into a Triaros. Puts out at least 6 haywire shots off a transported relentless platform at 340 points for the min squad size + triaros (sales of this thing are going to go way up now btw). Answers Spartans, while also being an obnoxious vehicle with frontal AV14 and a flare shield.

 

In comparison, the Domitar still kind of feel like the list's answer to a question no one ever asked...

Mmm I think they were made to be Admech's answer to anti AdMech. But it feels like a downsized Thanatar Calix, which again, is a huge point sink for a model that won't accomplish much over the game despite its cool weaponry.

 

But I wouldn't worry too much, FW may switch it up again later of give buffs via Dark Mechanicus.

[Terminus]

If you're playing RG, a Praevian with a 3+ Sized squad of vorax would be pretty scary. While the LA:RG Fleet is lost on them, they do gain Infiltrate. Couple that with scout and you can get REALLY Close, really fast and with Fleshbane Flamers and Poisoned Rotor Cannons, they're bound to do damage.

Since I picked Alpha Legion for my unit, I don't get much benefit from a Praevian except maybe Move through Cover as a mutable tactic, which is very situational (but probably worthwhile since they don't have an invulnerable save).

 

Other legions may make better use of it, like the Raven Guard you mention (the fleet is not actually lost, since that's one of the rules that require the entire unit to have it, all other Legions lose fleet by attaching a Praevian), or even Sons of Horus/Night Lords to emphasize their assault capabilities. Hell, even Dark Channeling could be very interesting. Daemon Vorax sound fun.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Terminus

[Brofist]

Re: No Scoring if unit has a Cortex: Sucks, yeah, but actually gives Thallax a Place in Cybernetica Lists where they might've been ignored/swept under the rug otherwise.

 

I need to dig through my book once I get it, but I'm crossing my fingers that Cubernetica gets a perk to make up for the Cortex nerf. Otherwise there really isn't a reason to use that army vs Taghmata.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Bulbafist