b1soul Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Any reason given for why Numeon's sacrifice results in Vulkan's resurrection? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I got the distinct impression that Mount Deathfire only gives life in return for a life. A simple exchange in essence. There could be more to it than that but if there is it wasn't obvious to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4179893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Any reason why Mt. Deathfire is a magical resurrection machine fueled by sacrifice? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4179910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothalor Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Because the plot demanded it be? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4179977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 'Any reason given for why Numeon's sacrifice results in Vulkan's resurrection? ' - fully agree with Melancholic Sanquinity. That all was written just for plot demands. The book is horrible even without that (boring SM, stupid journey, cartoonish villains, Life-eater and flamers.....) - but that 'sacrifice'. 'President of the USA got up one morning and decided to resurrect Washington. To do that he need to sacrifice himself - because in the Texas canyons there are rocks that could resurrect someone with blood sacrifice. But not just someone - but it should be a direct line of Presidents - just .....because. Why he get that info - well, because evil ISIS terrorist used evil machine to break his brains! And so he went to the Canyons and blow himself up. Next morning - happy George Washington walk up from the Canyons!' - see all is so simple! Now i could write another HH bestseller. All in all - 'Deathfire' is the most horrible novel in all HH. And NUmeon 'sacrifice' just the tip of the fething iceberg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4180036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 You had me rolling lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4180500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 b1soul - it was my pleasure Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4180576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goosey_j Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 God, what the was that about... Numeon abandoned Imperium Secondus to fly into a warp storm of gargantuan proportions with, to his knowledge, the last survivors of his legion, so he could complete the fool proof plan of... Hurling the corpse of his Primarch into a Volcano. So he would be alive again. I mean seriously, it's just beyond :cussing stupid. It's the worst plan ever conceived by anyone. "MAYBE THIS MOLTEN HOT LAVA WILL RESURRECT OUR MIGHTY LORD. NOPE. DIDN'T WORK. MAYBE WE JUST NEED TO THROW MORE MARINES IN THERE. OKAY THAT DID IT, THANKS PLOT." So. :cussing. stupid. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4184919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aralon56 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Did anyone think the way he talked to the Primarchs was a bit off, i thought space marines saw them as gods but Numeon talk to em as if they were something on his shoe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4185085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Good thing ..... one can ignore some novels. Vengeful Spirit was another one of those. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4185087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 goosey_j - totally agree with you :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4185143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Yeah. I love the Salamanders, this book was not good at all. Made no sense and very poor characters. Extremely disappointing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4202055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I did not like Deathfire , I am not a salamanders player nor do I enjoy the legion as a whole( as an african american it is quite common when I tell someone I play space marines fro them to stupidly laugh and ask if I play Salamanders ) I read Deathfire as the story of a man who was so emotionally and mentally destroyed by his fathers passing that he was willing to do anything no matter how stupid or far fetched to attempt to bring him back. Numeon honestly believed he was doing everything he could for his legion because in his perception the only way for them to right themselves was to bring Vulkan back. He wanted so desperately for his plan to work that he shattered even further when it didint. Which is funny because the best thing for his legion would have been for him to lead them , it would have been for him to rebuild and lead. Personally I dont think Numeon pitching himself into the Volcano had anything to do with Vulkan coming back to life nor do I think that the magma of mount deathfire served to do much of anything for Vulkan. I think he just needed time, I think Numeon had he decided " Okay we will fight on , our father will either rise again or we will inter him into the mountain when we can get back" would have been better for everyone involved. Numeon could have been all " Vulkan Lives ... I am Vulkan (insert stupid last name here" Got some fancy armor , and led the chapter , instead despite what everyone else is telling him he just cant let go of his dad , he feels , he knows his old man can come back from this so he grasps at the first thing that makes the most sense for him. " Vulkan Lives , Vulkan Lives , Vulkan Lives." x 350 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4202220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Did anyone catch that bit about the Sallies finding the hulk of an enormous WB ship? I listened to the audio and cannot ever again do that, so I cant recall where in the story it was, but at the time I really thought it seemed like they came across the grave of one of the Kingships, the Blessed Lady or Trisageon. thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4202326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Did anyone catch that bit about the Sallies finding the hulk of an enormous WB ship? I listened to the audio and cannot ever again do that, so I cant recall where in the story it was, but at the time I really thought it seemed like they came across the grave of one of the Kingships, the Blessed Lady or Trisageon. thoughts? It is more likely the Furious Abyss which is still floating around Macragge somewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4202365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Depending on how you read it, that was never Numeon. Numeon had died and his body was being controlled by Magnus, who was trying to save his brother. That is why he showed such little respect or reverence for the other primarchs. Once again Magnus and the Thousand Sons have tried to save the Imperium. Magnus is the Rodney Dangerfield of the Horus Heresy, no respect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4202373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Did anyone catch that bit about the Sallies finding the hulk of an enormous WB ship? I listened to the audio and cannot ever again do that, so I cant recall where in the story it was, but at the time I really thought it seemed like they came across the grave of one of the Kingships, the Blessed Lady or Trisageon. thoughts? It is more likely the Furious Abyss which is still floating around Macragge somewhere. I dunno about that one. It seemed to happen when they were at least a fair bit a ways on their journey out? I can't listen to it again so... Plus, it talked about several dead ships as well as identifiable Ultramarines locked in whatever poses they were in for all eternity. And didn't Pollux state very directly that the hulk of the Furious Abyss was to be removed from Macragges orbit ASAP in Unremembered Empire? I just wonder if we're in for a story about how another Kingship was downed. Preferably not by a Space Wolf named Bryyyyynnnnnnggggggaaaaarrrrrr in the oldest cliche of throwing a hand held bomb into the reactor core of a big ship. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4202543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Probably would be explained in the 'War without end Anthology' karden00 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4202686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I must admit it was problematic (the villains, the vigilator-as-knight, etc), but I liked it as a study of grief and indeed madness. It was at points inspired, at other points much less so. And yes Vulkan's return is not science fiction, it can never be rational, but it isn't a deus ex machina, since it was the culmination of the plot to that point, not something from elsewhere. It's a wonderful element of fantasy or anthrological myth, an element of ancient religious or epic plotting that felt suitable. Sacrifice is and was at the heart of many older religious systems, and it's a powerful, potent, causative agent. And this novel was about the sacrifice of Numeon, a man unhinged, irrational and deeply spiritual, an Abrahamic figure - that's quite a nice thing to read, to put into the fabric of this IP which tends to sideline the negative psychological effects of living through hell, or a world turned upside down. It felt like the Leftovers for a contemporary reference, itself a study of grief and loss and pain. And that's no bad thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4202712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Probably would be explained in the 'War without end Anthology' karden00 What's the scoop on "War Without End"? Some quick googling found nothing at all, and I am at the mercy of my phone's less than desirable webbing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4202999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 It's an anthology announced at the event last weekend. There were two, the other is the Eye of Terra. See the Open Days thread in the News forum for more info. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4203052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tymell Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 In response to the OP: no specific explanation has been given. But then, that's the point, at least so far. The way it's set up and executed is meant to evoke a mythical rise from the dead, and a culmination of Numeon's journey. It might be given a concrete explanation later on, or it might not. It would be far from the only or first thing in the 30K/40K universe done like that, and personally, I like it. There's plenty about Deathfire I don't like, but that's not one such aspect. I certainly don't think it's fair to dismiss it as "because the plot demanded it". For one thing, the plot -didn't- really demand it: Nick Kyme didn't have to do it. It's not like Russ surviving the Heresy or Sanguinius being slain by Horus at Terra, where we know their fate in advance. Vulkan's fate is one of the true mysteries of the Heresy (for now anyway), and Nick could easily have left him dead or at least ambiguous, and not failed to meet some pre-existing plot criteria. In addition, it's something the novel as a whole builds to, not just a last minute choice because the author wrote himself into a corner. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4203281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/10/new-horus-heresy-the-emperor-with-horus.html - karden00 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4203561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 In response to the OP: no specific explanation has been given. But then, that's the point, at least so far. The way it's set up and executed is meant to evoke a mythical rise from the dead, and a culmination of Numeon's journey. It might be given a concrete explanation later on, or it might not. It would be far from the only or first thing in the 30K/40K universe done like that, and personally, I like it. There's plenty about Deathfire I don't like, but that's not one such aspect. I certainly don't think it's fair to dismiss it as "because the plot demanded it". For one thing, the plot -didn't- really demand it: Nick Kyme didn't have to do it. It's not like Russ surviving the Heresy or Sanguinius being slain by Horus at Terra, where we know their fate in advance. Vulkan's fate is one of the true mysteries of the Heresy (for now anyway), and Nick could easily have left him dead or at least ambiguous, and not failed to meet some pre-existing plot criteria. In addition, it's something the novel as a whole builds to, not just a last minute choice because the author wrote himself into a corner. Exactly! The novel has problems, but this was perhaps the part of it that was best handled. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4203568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 'The novel has problems - a little underated i would say, lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314083-numeons-sacrifice/#findComment-4203647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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